Transaction by Transation Trades, Contract Extensions and Free agent Signings 1. Traded Moochie Norris for Clarence Weatherspoon Weatherspoon-17.7 million remaining on contract (including ?04) Norris-11.7 million on 3 year contract (including ?04, excluding ?07 option) Amaechi-5.7 million on 2 year contract (including ?04) Net salary loss of $300,000 2.Traded Eisley, Ward, Lampe, McDyess, Vujanic?s rights, and two first rounders for Marbury, Hardaway and Trybanski Charlie Ward-6 million left on contract year Howard Eisley-12 million left on 2 year contract McDyess-13.5 million left on contract year Lampe-2.7 million left on 3 year contract Traded total of 34.2 million Marbury-104.7 million left on 6 year contract Penny-43.9 million on 3 year contract Cezary-1.6 million on one year contract Acquired 150.2 million Net salary gain of $116 million 3. Traded KVH, Doleac and a 2nd rounder for TT and Doleac KVH-41.5 million left on 3 years Doleac-3 million left on contract year Total traded-44.5 million TT-38.7 million left on 3 years Nazr-15.7 million left on 3 years Total acquired-54.4 million Net salary gain of 9.9 million 4. Extended Kurt Thomas for 3 years, 22.1 million 5. Signed Vin Baker for 2 years, 7.4 million 6. Traded Frank Williams, Othella Harrington, Dikembe Mutombo and Cezary Trybanski for Jamal Crawford and Jerome Williams Frank Williams-1 million left on contract year Othella Harrington-3.2 million left on contract year Cezary Trybanski-1.6 million left on contract year Dikembe Mutombo-4.5 million left on contract year Total traded: 10.3 million Jamal Crawford-55.4 million on 7 years Jerome Williams-12.3 million on 2 years Total Acquired: 67.7 million Net gain of 57.4 million acquired 7. Traded Vin Baker, Moochie Norris, and a second round pick for Mo Taylor Baker-7.4 million left on 2 years Norris-8 million left on 2 years Total Traded: 15.4 million Taylor-3 years, 27.4 million Net gain of 12 million 8. Traded Nazr Mohammed for Malik Rose and two first round picks Mohammed-10.1 million left on 2 years Rose-25.2 million left on 4 years Net gain of 15.1 million 9. Traded KT for Q-Rich KT-3 years, 22.1 million left Q-Rich-37.6 million left on 5 years Net gain of 15.5 million 10. Signed Jerome James for 5 years, 29 million TOTAL Trade Total: Net $234.9 million acquired Draft picks: Two 1st rounders acquired-2traded=even Two 2nd round picks traded Players signed with financial significance: Jerome James and Vin Baker Players extended: Kurt Thomas
Thanks Jose for those numbers! I had no idea that the Knicks threw in a second rounder in the Van Horn deal and here I thought it couldnt have been any worse. So MrJ do you think this constitutes as handicapping the Knicks future? The numbers are right there for you to see? He's added on tons of salary, didnt even acquire any extra draft picks(in fact we lost two second rounders), we lost our future center and future point guard and what do we have to show for it again? Still in the exact same place as we were before under Layden--in the lottery. Do you have anymore excuses for Isiah? Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">He's added on tons of salary, didnt even acquire any extra draft picks(in fact we lost two second rounders)</div> Did you forget that Isiah acquired 3 first round picks in this year's draft? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">we lost our future center and future point guard and what do we have to show for it again?</div> We have Jamal Crawford and Stephon Marbury to show for it. These two guys are both better players than Frank Williams and Maciej Lampe and the way it looks now, will always be better than both of them. We also have Jerome Williams to show for it, too. Don't you like the Junk Yard Dog? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Still in the exact same place as we were before under Layden--in the lottery. Do you have anymore excuses for Isiah?</div> If all goes well (no injuries etc.) it looks as if the Knicks should be in the playoffs next season and unlike Layden every year seemed gloomy, but with Isiah, it looks as if we have a bright future.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you forget that Isiah acquired 3 first round picks in this year's draft?</div> Some can argue that it doesn't matter anyway because he could've used those 3 first round picks better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you forget that Isiah acquired 3 first round picks in this year's draft?</div> Ah yes. Of course. So he traded away three second rounders and gained one first rounder. Doesnt sound like a great trade off. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">We have Jamal Crawford and Stephon Marbury to show for it. These two guys are both better players than Frank Williams and Maciej Lampe and the way it looks now, will always be better than both of them. We also have Jerome Williams to show for it, too. Don't you like the Junk Yard Dog?</div> And where have they taken us??? You are completely missing the point! The point is not to get as many talented players as you can. The point is to win! So tell me again what do we have to show for all the salary Isiah has added on and two young players with potential he got rid of? Since your just going to sidestep the question again I'll tell you. All we have to show for it is another appearance in the lottery. The Knicks could have been in this lottery plus a developing Frank Williams, a developing Majec Lampe, one lottery pick, and a second rounder and salary cap relief in sight. Isiah's big gamble to revamp the roster into a winning team by forsaking the future has failed. The Knicks would have been better off if they had just stuck with Lampe, Williams, the expiring contracts and the picks. And to answer your question I would have rather had Frank Williams and his small contract than Jerome Williams and that huge contract. That's not even a valid question. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">If all goes well (no injuries etc.) it looks as if the Knicks should be in the playoffs next season and unlike Layden every year seemed gloomy, but with Isiah, it looks as if we have a bright future.</div> Only the most rabid, biased and unreasonable of Knick fans could possibly have big expectations for the future. Almost all of the teams in the East have gotten better. The Knicks will almost certainly not make the playoffs and if they do it'll be as a four game pass for either the Heat, Pistons and/or Pacers to the Eastern Conference Semifinals. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Ah yes. Of course. So he traded away three second rounders and gained one first rounder. Doesnt sound like a great trade off.</div> I know we lost one in the Nazr trade and the Kurt Thomas trade, but what happened to the 3rd one? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And where have they taken us??? You are completely missing the point! The point is not to get as many talented players as you can. The point is to win! So tell me again what do we have to show for all the salary Isiah has added on and two young players with potential he got rid of? Since your just going to sidestep the question again I'll tell you. All we have to show for it is another appearance in the lottery. The Knicks could have been in this lottery plus a developing Frank Williams, a developing Majec Lampe, one lottery pick, and a second rounder and salary cap relief in sight. Isiah's big gamble to revamp the roster into a winning team by forsaking the future has failed. The Knicks would have been better off if they had just stuck with Lampe, Williams, the expiring contracts and the picks. And to answer your question I would have rather had Frank Williams and his small contract than Jerome Williams and that huge contract. That's not even a valid question.</div> You're overrating Frank Williams. He started showing us flashes that he could be decent, but he was dreadfully inconsistent, and if he was half as good as you're making him out to be right now, why couldn't he log any minutes with the Bulls last year? In the 56 games he played with us, he averaged 13 minutes, 2 assists and 4 points on a 38.5 field goal percentage which happens to be less than Jamal Crawford's. Lampe is such a project and the way it looks now, he could be the way he is forever. Who knows if he'll ever turn out into an all-star like Marbury so it doesn't matter. Marbury is as good as it can get and while we were losing with him for one season, we would have done much more losing if we let Lampe and Williams lead us. We are better off winning now and then signing a player in 2007 with our 60 million coming off the books in the next two years. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Only the most rabid, biased and unreasonable of Knick fans could possibly have big expectations for the future. Almost all of the teams in the East have gotten better. The Knicks will almost certainly not make the playoffs and if they do it'll be as a four game pass for either the Heat, Pistons and/or Pacers to the Eastern Conference Semifinals. </div> So having your roster full of good, promising young players is unreasonable? The Knicks are in a good position for the future because of the young players they have and their many expiring contracts in the years to come. The Knickshave gotten better and if we get Larry Brown, we'll be all the more better. The Knicks will probably make the playoffs and interestingly enough, not only Knick fans feel that way. The Knicks are a much better team than they were last year and even if they do get swept in the Semi Finals, it'll be better than not making the playoffs at all.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Only the most rabid, biased and unreasonable of Knick fans could possibly have big expectations for the future. Almost all of the teams in the East have gotten better. The Knicks will almost certainly not make the playoffs and if they do it'll be as a four game pass for either the Heat, Pistons and/or Pacers to the Eastern Conference Semifinals. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div> Exactly Tribute. The only things gained from Isiah were greater popularity and ticket sales, which the Knicks still had back in the day. If Isiah were fired what would be your first move to fix the cap problem? I would make this trade (even though it would probably never happen): DALLAS RECIEVES Stephon Marbury ($16,453,125) Malik Rose ($6,008,750) David Lee (Don't know his contract, someone help me out.) NEW YORK RECIEVES Keith Van Horn ($15,694,250) Shawn Bradley ($4,500,000) Devin Harris ($2,947,440) I'm not sure if the contracts work out, someone let me know if they don't. You get a guy who could shoot as well as score in the post in KVH, and his contract is expiring. Devin Harris could be the starting PG, in front of Nate. This would also help to achieve a youth movement, with a starting lineup like: C: Channing Frye (22) PF: Michael Sweetney (25) SF: Quentin Richardson (25) SG: Jamal Crawford (25) PG: Devin Harris(22) Trevor Ariza (20) Nate Robinson (21) Shawn Bradley's contract isn't friendly but the deal is an improvement financially. Trading him for another expiring contract to a team in desperate need of center is an idea, although that would probably never happen. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks will probably make the playoffs and interestingly enough, not only Knick fans feel that way. The Knicks are a much better team than they were last year and even if they do get swept in the Semi Finals, it'll be better than not making the playoffs at all.</div> The chance of getting into an 8th seed is VERY slim imo. The Pistons, Heat, Pacers, Nets, Celtics, and Bulls will make the playoffs, and most probably either Wizards/Cavs/Sixers will take the 7th and 8th seeds. Hell, even the Bucks could make the 8th seed.
^First of all, Shawn Bradley is retiring. Second of all, why would we bring in a developing point guard when we have one ourselves? Third of all, why is Isiah getting all the heat when he didn't even completely rebuild the mess Layden made? You cats are acting as if we're not going to make the playoffs again when you have no idea what's going to take place in the regular season. Unlike Layden, we have 3 good rookies at the same time, a good sophomore with the 43rd pick who had first round potential, and we're about to get a Hall of Fame coach.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting giftedvisionz:</div><div class="quote_post">Some can argue that it doesn't matter anyway because he could've used those 3 first round picks better.</div> How can you say that if you don't know how the rookies will turn out? In the Summer Leagues, they looked pretty good. Frye looked like he needed some work, but overall he looked decent.
If Isiah was fired now....and I was elected GM I would do this 1. <font color="Red">Portland</font> Nick Van Exel Sebastian Telfair <font color="Blue">Knicks</font> Stephon Marbury 2006 2nd round pick <font color="Red">Portland's lineup</font> Marbury/Jack Anderson/Webster Miles/Patterson/Outlaw Randolph/Ratliff Przybilla/Ha 2. <font color="Blue">Orlando </font> Doug Christie Kelvin Cato for <font color="DarkOrange">Knicks</font> Mike Sweetney Jamal Crawford Malik Rose <font color="Blue">Orlando's lineup </font> Nelson/Diener/Dooling Francis/Crawford Hill/Turkoglu Howard/Sweetney/Rose Vazquez/Kasun 3. <font color="Red">Chicago</font> Eric Piatkowski Antonio Davis Andres Nocioni for <font color="Blue">Knicks</font> Quentin Richardson Jerome Williams Maurice Taylor <font color="Red">Chicago's lineup</font> Hinrich/Duhon Richardson/Gordon Deng/Williams Chandler/Taylor Curry/Chandler <font color="Blue">Knicks's final lineup</font> Sebastian Telfair/Nate Robinson/Penny Hardaway Doug Christie/Nick Van Exel/Allan Houston Andres Nocioni/Trevor Ariza/Tim Thomas/Eric Piatkowski Channing Fyre/Antonio Davis/David Lee Kelvin Cato/Jerome James Allan Houston ? $19,125,000 Anfernee Hardaway ? $15,750,000 Tim Thomas ? $13,975,000 Antonio Davis ? $13,900,000 Nick Van Exel ? $12,731,125 Kelvin Cato ? $8,640,000 Doug Christie ? $8,200,000 Eric Piatowski ? $2,950,200 Andres Nocioni ? $2,777,500 Channing Fyre - $2,250,000 Sebastian Telfair ? $1,676,280 Nate Robinson - $1,250,000 David Lee - 400,000 Trevor Ariza - $400,000 These are accurate salaries mostly...not really sure about rooks salaries Total Salary: 104,025,105 The Cap: 50,000,000 Over Cap: 54,025,105 Knicks get more bigger, and physical, we trade alot of expiring contracts in 06 (Tim Thomas, Penny Hardaway, Antonio Davis, Doug Christie, Kelvin Cato, Eric Piatkowski) This would be a miracle to our cap issue. Also Houston contract expires in 07, by 07, we'll still have our young core, all developed, and and have mega cap room possiblly signing a guy like Yao or Lebron. But if you look at this team, think DEFENSE, this team will be competitive, cause of the combination of experience and young hungry players, who make plays (Ariza, Lee, Robinson, Telfair, etc) Our frontcourt becomes huge with a combination of shot blocking 6"10 big men, Cato and Fyre, with defensive veterans like Jerome James and Antonio Davis off the bench for us. You may ask..."Where the hell is the offense?" Well, look at our bench, Nick Van Exel, Nate Robinson, David Lee, Tim Thomas, Trevor Ariza, Allan Houston ........the bench is so deep. My main goal is to make Knicks an enjoyable tough team, while rebuilding at the same time, all these veterans who will expire will teach our young core of Lee, Robinson, Telfair, Ariza, Fyre some defense, which all of these guys are capable of becoming very good defenders in the league. This plan is perfect, perimeter defenders (Nicioni, Christie, Ariza) Two very young PG's who will be our future (Telfair, Robinson) Strong veterans in the frontcourt (Cato, Davis, James) with our young front court guys very skilled and talented (Fyre and Lee) along with veteran leadership off the bench who can provide alot of offense if needed (Houston, Van Exel, Hardaway, Thomas, Piatkowski)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I know we lost one in the Nazr trade and the Kurt Thomas trade, but what happened to the 3rd one?</div> According to Jose's first post we lost the third one in the Van Horn deal. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">You're overrating Frank Williams. He started showing us flashes that he could be decent, but he was dreadfully inconsistent, and if he was half as good as you're making him out to be right now, why couldn't he log any minutes with the Bulls last year? In the 56 games he played with us, he averaged 13 minutes, 2 assists and 4 points on a 38.5 field goal percentage which happens to be less than Jamal Crawford's. Lampe is such a project and the way it looks now, he could be the way he is forever. Who knows if he'll ever turn out into an all-star like Marbury so it doesn't matter. Marbury is as good as it can get and while we were losing with him for one season, we would have done much more losing if we let Lampe and Williams lead us. We are better off winning now and then signing a player in 2007 with our 60 million coming off the books in the next two years.</div> It was Frank Williams' second year in the league!!! Did you really expect him to put up big numbers in his sophomore year. I didnt say he was already a great point guard I said he was a developing point guard with potential. He barely got a chance to start before Isiah made the Marbury trade. Before the Marbury came everyone was talking about how good Frank Williams would be. Those stats you put up are extremely misleading and you know it. After the trade Williams hardly got a chance to play, never developed, and looked completely lost. The rare occasions that Frank Williams ran the point and Marbury was the off guard he still didnt get a chance to show his stuff because Marbury would of course overhandle the ball even though he wasnt the point guard. I guess that's another player whose career Marbury has destroyed. Lampe might have been a project but noone can doubt that he had alot of potential and it's not like the Knicks were going anywhere anyway(and even after trading him they've gone nowhere). You keep bring up the fact that Marbury is an All Star calibur player. Who cares??? Frank Williams and Lampe would have helped the Knicks win and that is all important. For the record Marbury is not as good as it can get. Steve Nash is. He's a born winner and he really does make people around him better. Marbury has destroyed careers with his selfishness whereas Nash has helped turn Dirk Nowitzki and Amare Stoudamire into All Stars. If the Knicks were winning now then Isiah's moves wouldnt be too bad but the thing is we are not winning now and that's the problem! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">So having your roster full of good, promising young players is unreasonable? The Knicks are in a good position for the future because of the young players they have and their many expiring contracts in the years to come. The Knickshave gotten better and if we get Larry Brown, we'll be all the more better. The Knicks will probably make the playoffs and interestingly enough, not only Knick fans feel that way. The Knicks are a much better team than they were last year and even if they do get swept in the Semi Finals, it'll be better than not making the playoffs at all.</div> Isiah has made it pretty clear that he does not place a very high value on Michael Sweetney. Frye isnt that good and Robinson is not starting material(in fact considering what happened to Frank Williams and the prescence of Crawford and Q I'd say Nate Robinson is in a lot of trouble). I like David Lee though. The Knicks will not be able to afford Sweetney and Ariza when their contracts end. The Pistons, Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nets, Celtics and Cavaliers will all make the playoffs. That leaves us competing with the Sixers, Bucks, Wizards and Bobcats for the 8th seed(depending on the moves the Magic make they may be in the running too). Even if we do beat these teams out were still taking on the Pistons or the Heat and we will lose first round in four maybe five games if were lucky. Going to the semifinals is out of the question. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting giftedvisionz:</div><div class="quote_post">If Isiah were fired what would be your first move to fix the cap problem? I would make this trade (even though it would probably never happen): DALLAS RECIEVES Stephon Marbury ($16,453,125) Malik Rose ($6,008,750) David Lee (Don't know his contract, someone help me out.) NEW YORK RECIEVES Keith Van Horn ($15,694,250) Shawn Bradley ($4,500,000) Devin Harris ($2,947,440) I'm not sure if the contracts work out, someone let me know if they don't. You get a guy who could shoot as well as score in the post in KVH, and his contract is expiring. Devin Harris could be the starting PG, in front of Nate. This would also help to achieve a youth movement, with a starting lineup like: C: Channing Frye (22) PF: Michael Sweetney (25) SF: Quentin Richardson (25) SG: Jamal Crawford (25) PG: Devin Harris(22) Trevor Ariza (20) Nate Robinson (21) Shawn Bradley's contract isn't friendly but the deal is an improvement financially. Trading him for another expiring contract to a team in desperate need of center is an idea, although that would probably never happen.</div> Your scenario is alright. I like Devin Harris and I like Van Horn(especially if its as an expiring contract). I also like removing Rose's and Marbury's contract. The one pick isnt good though since the Mavericks are practically guaranteed to make the playoffs. I think the Knicks could get more out of trading for Marbury and the Mavericks probably wouldnt make this deal anyway. If I were the GM I'm not sure what I would do. The cap situation is terrible, the team is overloaded with players with big contracts and who dont play defense and there is no chemistry. Right off the top of my head I'd trade Marbury for Cassell, Kandiman, a filler and two first round unconditional picks for 2006 and 2007. Then I'd trade Frye for Ukic and Toronto's first round pick unconditional of course(Babcock would definetely bite on this one). Sign Randolph Morris and develop him. Trade Q to Houston for Weatherspoon and their first round pick in 2006. Maybe even trade Crawford to some team in need of a guard like the Nuggets for caproom and a pick(maybe the Wizards would be interested). Use the picks to start a brand new youth movement. Stop trading expiring contracts and play the youngsters. I dont know what to do with Rose, James, and Taylor. I dont know who would take them off the Knicks so just let them come off the books in five years I guess. Under my plan the Knicks would lose Marbury's, Crawford's, Q's contracts. The policy of taking on more salary would stop and the Knicks would have an extra four or five picks(plus Ukic) over the next two years to create a bright future. That sounds pretty good to me but unfortunately for New York I'm not the GM. Jose your general idea is sound but you're going about it the wrong way. Doug Christie has had it. The Knicks shouldnt trade Sweetney for him and Cato. Sweetney is probably the most important Knick as far as our future is concerend. He has to stay. Your other moves are okay but they could be better. The final line up isnt great although I do like you got Telfair as the starting guard. To be honest I'm really not sure what your plan is trying to accomplish. It looks like your rebuilding but it also looks like your trying to win right away and as a result you're not doing either. The best plan at this point is to break the team down and rebuild. This team is a mess. Better to start from scratch now and make be a serious contender years from now than hope for an 8th seed for the next few years. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
Yeh...I got all those expiring contract guys, so we'd had the chance to start fresh...yeh, but all my trades have to be even, I just can't give teams long contracts with value in them. I like Fyre @ PF than Sweetney, just cause Fyre has perfect size and mobility for PF. Yeh...with that roster its not like im aiming for the playoffs, but this roster has a good defensive squad that will give some competition, obviously im aiming for the Lottery in 06, Free Agency. My main purpose was to get rid of all the ugly contracts. Frank Williams was pretty underrated, he was very tough, and all the games he started, we won by 10 - 30. Frank plays hard D, and passes very well...he's similar to Deron Williams in style.
I like Jose's trades, and the end result is almost like a clean slate. However, if I'm the Blazers I would never bite on that trade. A rapidly developing Telfair and Van Exel's expiring contract are much better than Marbury, and since the team is rebuilding I think they would realize that. Tribute, I see the type of trades that you're trying to make, and that's what the Knicks would need to escape from this mess. The way I see it, you guys are lucky that Richardson's and Crawford's reputations didn't take a bigger hit from their last seasons. If you deal them now, you'll get a lot more than you ever could if you wait it out. However, you can only dream about that Frye for Ukic trade. Even if Bacock is a dumbass, he passed over Frye before and I doubt he'd trade the pick that redeemed his draft for a player he didn't want anyway. The current team doesn't have a bright future. I don't think any team that far over the cap can have a bright future. Most teams that are over the cap have set their core and are ready to contend in the playoffs. If this is the core the Knicks want to build around, all I can see is a decent present followed by a very painful future.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">If Isiah was fired now....and I was elected GM I would do this 1. <font color="Red">Portland</font> Nick Van Exel Sebastian Telfair <font color="Blue">Knicks</font> Stephon Marbury 2006 2nd round pick <font color="Red">Portland's lineup</font> Marbury/Jack Anderson/Webster Miles/Patterson/Outlaw Randolph/Ratliff Przybilla/Ha 2. <font color="Blue">Orlando </font> Doug Christie Kelvin Cato for <font color="DarkOrange">Knicks</font> Mike Sweetney Jamal Crawford Malik Rose <font color="Blue">Orlando's lineup </font> Nelson/Diener/Dooling Francis/Crawford Hill/Turkoglu Howard/Sweetney/Rose Vazquez/Kasun 3. <font color="Red">Chicago</font> Eric Piatkowski Antonio Davis Andres Nocioni for <font color="Blue">Knicks</font> Quentin Richardson Jerome Williams Maurice Taylor <font color="Red">Chicago's lineup</font> Hinrich/Duhon Richardson/Gordon Deng/Williams Chandler/Taylor Curry/Chandler <font color="Blue">Knicks's final lineup</font> Sebastian Telfair/Nate Robinson/Penny Hardaway Doug Christie/Nick Van Exel/Allan Houston Andres Nocioni/Trevor Ariza/Tim Thomas/Eric Piatkowski Channing Fyre/Antonio Davis/David Lee Kelvin Cato/Jerome James Allan Houston ? $19,125,000 Anfernee Hardaway ? $15,750,000 Tim Thomas ? $13,975,000 Antonio Davis ? $13,900,000 Nick Van Exel ? $12,731,125 Kelvin Cato ? $8,640,000 Doug Christie ? $8,200,000 Eric Piatowski ? $2,950,200 Andres Nocioni ? $2,777,500 Channing Fyre - $2,250,000 Sebastian Telfair ? $1,676,280 Nate Robinson - $1,250,000 David Lee - 400,000 Trevor Ariza - $400,000 These are accurate salaries mostly...not really sure about rooks salaries Total Salary: 104,025,105 The Cap: 50,000,000 Over Cap: 54,025,105 Knicks get more bigger, and physical, we trade alot of expiring contracts in 06 (Tim Thomas, Penny Hardaway, Antonio Davis, Doug Christie, Kelvin Cato, Eric Piatkowski) This would be a miracle to our cap issue. Also Houston contract expires in 07, by 07, we'll still have our young core, all developed, and and have mega cap room possiblly signing a guy like Yao or Lebron. But if you look at this team, think DEFENSE, this team will be competitive, cause of the combination of experience and young hungry players, who make plays (Ariza, Lee, Robinson, Telfair, etc) Our frontcourt becomes huge with a combination of shot blocking 6"10 big men, Cato and Fyre, with defensive veterans like Jerome James and Antonio Davis off the bench for us. You may ask..."Where the hell is the offense?" Well, look at our bench, Nick Van Exel, Nate Robinson, David Lee, Tim Thomas, Trevor Ariza, Allan Houston ........the bench is so deep. My main goal is to make Knicks an enjoyable tough team, while rebuilding at the same time, all these veterans who will expire will teach our young core of Lee, Robinson, Telfair, Ariza, Fyre some defense, which all of these guys are capable of becoming very good defenders in the league. This plan is perfect, perimeter defenders (Nicioni, Christie, Ariza) Two very young PG's who will be our future (Telfair, Robinson) Strong veterans in the frontcourt (Cato, Davis, James) with our young front court guys very skilled and talented (Fyre and Lee) along with veteran leadership off the bench who can provide alot of offense if needed (Houston, Van Exel, Hardaway, Thomas, Piatkowski)</div> In order for any of those trades to actually happen if you were the GM you'd have to be sleeping with all 3 other GM's too...and be damn good at it. Alot of people pick on GM's and say they suck but when they say what they'd do they're impossible. Hey if i was teh GM of the Raps i'd trade Lamond Murray and Rafer Alston for Bogut Tribute - i really dont think Babcock would trade a first rounder and a guy that very easily could of been a first rounder for Frye. Ukic's our future PG and who knows what that other pick could be since we're obviously gunna do bad. Dont think we need Frye anyways since we have Hoffa, Sow, Bosh, CV, Bonner(maybe), Aaron Williams and Woods who can all play the 5. Keep Frye, he could turn out to be a Camby.
The Orlando Magic trade looks awesome to me except the starting lineup would proabably be Francis, Crawford, Hill, Sweetney, Dwight.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">According to Jose's first post we lost the third one in the Van Horn deal.</div> Oh yeah, that's right. We also gained one from Houston that year, too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It was Frank Williams' second year in the league!!! Did you really expect him to put up big numbers in his sophomore year. I didnt say he was already a great point guard I said he was a developing point guard with potential. He barely got a chance to start before Isiah made the Marbury trade. Before the Marbury came everyone was talking about how good Frank Williams would be. Those stats you put up are extremely misleading and you know it. After the trade Williams hardly got a chance to play, never developed, and looked completely lost. The rare occasions that Frank Williams ran the point and Marbury was the off guard he still didnt get a chance to show his stuff because Marbury would of course overhandle the ball even though he wasnt the point guard. I guess that's another player whose career Marbury has destroyed.</div> And the way you're making it sound, Frank Williams was already a superstar. He was developing nicely, but he was not going to be anything special like Marbury. In the Marbury trade, we basically got an already developed point guard who is/was much better than Williams and could do more than him. And as I said before, if Williams was half as good as you're making him out to be, surely he could put up some minutes on his hometown Chicago Bulls. Jamal Crawford is more talented and despite his frequent bad decisions, overall, his game is better than Williams. So getting rid of Frank Williams for Jamal Crawford wasn't an awful move like you said it is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Lampe might have been a project but noone can doubt that he had alot of potential and it's not like the Knicks were going anywhere anyway(and even after trading him they've gone nowhere). You keep bring up the fact that Marbury is an All Star calibur player. Who cares??? Frank Williams and Lampe would have helped the Knicks win and that is all important. For the record Marbury is not as good as it can get. Steve Nash is. He's a born winner and he really does make people around him better. Marbury has destroyed careers with his selfishness whereas Nash has helped turn Dirk Nowitzki and Amare Stoudamire into All Stars. If the Knicks were winning now then Isiah's moves wouldnt be too bad but the thing is we are not winning now and that's the problem!</div> Lampe does have a lot of potential, but it's not like he's really doing anything with it. When Lampe first came into the league, people thought he was NBA ready and not only did he prove he wasn't, but he's also on his 3rd team in only 2 years. That should say something. Again, I'm not calling him a bust, but passing up on a sure 20/8 guy for a project not guaranteed to be as good as him at his full potential, isn't the right thing to do. Steve Nash is a good player and even if you don't think Marbury is as good as Nash, it's understandable. All I know is Marbury right now is better than both Lampe and Williams and the way it looks now he'll always be better than both of them. Don't say he turned Amare and Nowitzki into an all-star or else I'll say his selfishness turned Amare into the rookie of the year and Marion into a first time all-star. And playing next to Marbury, KVH had his best years in his entire career. Isiah has been in control of the Knicks for a little less than 2 years and one year we got to the playoffs, the next year we didn?t. He deserves more time. And I want to know if we got to the second round of the playoffs and took it to say Game 6, would you give Isiah his props? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Isiah has made it pretty clear that he does not place a very high value on Michael Sweetney. Frye isnt that good and Robinson is not starting material(in fact considering what happened to Frank Williams and the prescence of Crawford and Q I'd say Nate Robinson is in a lot of trouble). I like David Lee though. The Knicks will not be able to afford Sweetney and Ariza when their contracts end. The Pistons, Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nets, Celtics and Cavaliers will all make the playoffs. That leaves us competing with the Sixers, Bucks, Wizards and Bobcats for the 8th seed(depending on the moves the Magic make they may be in the running too). Even if we do beat these teams out were still taking on the Pistons or the Heat and we will lose first round in four maybe five games if were lucky. Going to the semifinals is out of the question.</div> He doesn?t have high value for Mike Sweetney because he doesn?t really fit into the direction the team is trying to go in. He?s not really athletic, or much of a transition player and that?s exactly the way the Knicks are going in. You saying ?Frye isn?t that good? is yet another one of your assumptions. How do you know he?s going to do? He struggled a bit in the Summer Leagues, but history as shown us it isn?t necessarily accurate. Players who struggle there can have great years and vice-versa. At least see a preseason game and see how Frye does. The way it looks now, Nate could be a better player than Frank Williams was and due to the fact Marbury is steadily declining, we have a perfect replacement in Nate Robinson. Think of the presence of Robinson decreasing their minutes, not eating them up. Robinson is starting quality and he?s looked more impressive than Ukic does. Again as I said before, you assume too much. Now your filling out the playoff seeds? Last time I remember, few people had the Bulls on their list, Cleveland there and the Nets off it. You can?t make these bold predictions without having any type of idea of what will transpire in the season. -- Isiah has given us 5 promising young players on the roster with Frye, Robinson, Lee, Ariza, and Butler. He?s also in the process of getting the best coach in the game and people are so hesitant in giving him props. Maybe he didn?t tend to the huge financial mess that he didn?t create, but let?s not forget that the Knicks have many problems. Isiah is getting younger, and he?s doing his best to make us a contender in the Eastern Conference and if you ask me and obviously fans of other teams, he?s doing a pretty good job with it. We?re also set for the future with our young core. I think so far, Isiah deserves props for what he?s doing and while the success of the regular season will serve as the verdict, he obviously is doing well with the team.
With my plan...check this out by 06..... Allan Houston ? $19,125,000 Andres Nocioni ? $2,777,500 Channing Fyre - $2,250,000 Sebastian Telfair ? $1,676,280 Nate Robinson - $1,250,000 David Lee - 400,000 Trevor Ariza - $400,000 Total Salary: 27,878,780 The Cap: 50,000,000 Under Cap: 22,121,220 Free Agents in 06 Yao Ming Drew Gooden Tayshaun Prince Predrag Stojakovic Nene and others in 07....Houston contract is off the salary...lol 19,125,000 thats as much as what we would be under the cap Free agents in 06 Mike Bibby Antwan Jamison Mickael Pietrus Jerry Stackhouse Jamaal Magloire Jalen Rose Mickael Pietrus Anderson Varejao Dirk Nowitzki Darko Milicic LeBron James Rashard Lewis Chris Bosh Kendrick Perkins Kirk Hinrich Josh Howard Peter John Ramos Vince Carter Marcus Banks Maciej Lampe Chris Mihm Primoz Brezec Carmelo Anthony MrJ, I think no one thought Lampe would be an impact player, he was a SF/PF who was the youngest player in the league when he entered in the NBA, Lampe was born in 85, if he works hard he can develop into a Brad Miller clone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">MrJ, I think no one thought Lampe would be an impact player, he was a SF/PF who was the youngest player in the league when he entered in the NBA, Lampe was born in 85, if he works hard he can develop into a Brad Miller clone.</div> You're right, that was my bad; I misread some article and just recently reviewed. Even if he does turn into a Brad Miller type, Marbury is still better than him. So with Marbury, we get a better player than both Williams and Lampe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">You're right, that was my bad; I misread some article and just recently reviewed. Even if he does turn into a Brad Miller type, Marbury is still better than him. So with Marbury, we get a better player than both Williams and Lampe.</div> Yeh no doubt, Marbury was the best player we had since Ewing a top 20 NBA talent, and a top 5 PG without debate, but also recieved a Net salary gain of $116 million
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">Tribute - i really dont think Babcock would trade a first rounder and a guy that very easily could of been a first rounder for Frye. Ukic's our future PG and who knows what that other pick could be since we're obviously gunna do bad. Dont think we need Frye anyways since we have Hoffa, Sow, Bosh, CV, Bonner(maybe), Aaron Williams and Woods who can all play the 5. Keep Frye, he could turn out to be a Camby.</div> I'm not even going to try to explain why that trade would be good for the Raptors to make because it isnt. No sane GM would pull the trigger on that deal but this is Babcock we're talking about. He just might do this trade and he might not. He just might feel the need for a big man is so great that he should give up his point guard of the future and and his first round pick. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh yeah, that's right. We also gained one from Houston that year, too.</div> Did we? I dont remember a second rounder being included in the deal for Norris. I thought the pick was compensation for Van Gundy. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">And the way you're making it sound, Frank Williams was already a superstar. He was developing nicely, but he was not going to be anything special like Marbury. In the Marbury trade, we basically got an already developed point guard who is/was much better than Williams and could do more than him. And as I said before, if Williams was half as good as you're making him out to be, surely he could put up some minutes on his hometown Chicago Bulls. Jamal Crawford is more talented and despite his frequent bad decisions, overall, his game is better than Williams. So getting rid of Frank Williams for Jamal Crawford wasn't an awful move like you said it is.</div> How did I make it sound like he was already a superstar?? I always said he was young and had potential. Where did you get superstar from? Marbury is special alright. A talented player who cannot win. You dont see those everyday. What we got out of the deal was a loser, less salary, and less picks. The reason Williams didnt get any playtime is because his development was crushed. That's what career of course Crawford would have been a better player to have. If the Knicks had stuck with their young talent though Frank Williams would have been a better player. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Lampe does have a lot of potential, but it's not like he's really doing anything with it. When Lampe first happens when you dont get a chance to play. Frank Williams was not the only player whose career was damaged by Marbury not to mention the Bulls already had a set team so they didnt put alot of effort into developing him. After trading for Marbury and killing Frank Williams' development and in essence hiscame into the league, people thought he was NBA ready and not only did he prove he wasn't, but he's also on his 3rd team in only 2 years. That should say something. Again, I'm not calling him a bust, but passing up on a sure 20/8 guy for a project not guaranteed to be as good as him at his full potential, isn't the right thing to do. Steve Nash is a good player and even if you don't think Marbury is as good as Nash, it's understandable. All I know is Marbury right now is better than both Lampe and Williams and the way it looks now he'll always be better than both of them. Don't say he turned Amare and Nowitzki into an all-star or else I'll say his selfishness turned Amare into the rookie of the year and Marion into a first time all-star. And playing next to Marbury, KVH had his best years in his entire career. Isiah has been in control of the Knicks for a little less than 2 years and one year we got to the playoffs, the next year we didn?t. He deserves more time. And I want to know if we got to the second round of the playoffs and took it to say Game 6, would you give Isiah his props?</div> First off Amare became rookie of the year all on his own. Because he was that good. He didnt become rookie of the year because of Marbury, he became rookie of the year despite Marbury's selfishness. You cant even compare Marbury to Nash. Nash helped Amare develop into the monster he is today. If the Marbury trade had never occured the Suns would have been looking to draft a center in the lottery, Amare would never have been as good as he was this year and everything would have been hunky dory in New York City. As for Van Horn having the best years of his career playing next to Marbury I dont see how that's possible. Maybe statistically but he was losing so I'm sure he wouldnt say the best years of his career took place playing with Marbury. I dont know if you remember but Van Horn was supposed to turn into a fantastic player. He was 6'10", could shoot the ball, had good handle for someone who was 6'10", could rebound the ball...he was supposed to turn into something special. But Marbury's selfishness stopped him from living up to his full potential. Do you see that? Marbury plays alongside player with potential...player does live up to full potential. Nash plays alongside player with potential...player becomes one of the top big men in the NBA. Coincidence? I think not. Golly. First you advocate getting Kwame Brown because he might live up to his alleged potential. Now you say "Lampe does have a lot of potential, but it's not like he's really doing anything with it". You'd say anything to support Isiah Thomas. Brown has had every chance to prove himself but he hasnt and you support him. On the other hand you have a player who never even got a chance to prove himself. It takes patience and playtime to develop a young player and that's something Lampe never had. He's been moved from team to team and that has at the very least slowed his progress. It takes more than being a good player to win. And by the way even if Lampe nor Williams became as good as Marbury those two together would have certainly been worth more than Marbury. All you say is Marbury is a 20/8 guy. But you still have not said where that 20/8 has taken us. Now stop ducking and rolling and answer the question! For all the cap space we gave up, for the draft picks we gave up, for the young talent we gave what have we gained??? Absolutely nothing! Marbury has done nothing for this team! We were bad before he came and we're still bad now except were minus all the things it took to get him here to keep up the losing. That is the truth of the Marbury deal! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">He doesn?t have high value for Mike Sweetney because he doesn?t really fit into the direction the team is trying to go in. He?s not really athletic, or much of a transition player and that?s exactly the way the Knicks are going in. You saying ?Frye isn?t that good? is yet another one of your assumptions. How do you know he?s going to do? He struggled a bit in the Summer Leagues, but history as shown us it isn?t necessarily accurate. Players who struggle there can have great years and vice-versa. At least see a preseason game and see how Frye does. The way it looks now, Nate could be a better player than Frank Williams was and due to the fact Marbury is steadily declining, we have a perfect replacement in Nate Robinson. Think of the presence of Robinson decreasing their minutes, not eating them up. Robinson is starting quality and he?s looked more impressive than Ukic does. Again as I said before, you assume too much. Now your filling out the playoff seeds? Last time I remember, few people had the Bulls on their list, Cleveland there and the Nets off it. You can?t make these bold predictions without having any type of idea of what will transpire in the season.</div> I know Fyre wont be much good the same way I know two apples plus two apples is four apples. Frye's softness plus weak frame plus lack of anything that he does particularly well equals not so good. For every player you can bring up that has had a bad summerleague and went on to succeed in the NBA I can probably name over a dozen who have had bad summerleagues and didnt stick in the NBA. Robinson is 5'6". That alone limits him. He'll always be a liability on the defensive end and will always need to be a player who gets out in transition. He is not starting material by any means. Roko Ukic on the other hand is definetely starting material. He can play in both the half court and in the open court and he could also be a player that exploits other point guards. Isiah's blue print is yet another reason Isiah should be fired. What was the last team in the NBA that ever won a championship by playing run and gun? Here's an easier question. What was the last team in the NBA that ever won a championship without a good low post prescence excluding the Bulls of course since they had the best player that ever lived in the world and the perfect team built around him. As anybody who's been paying attention to the way the league is heading would know the amount of quality big men are steadily declining. True low post scorers are getting even harder to find. Sweetney is a true low post scorer. How good of a low post scorer is up to him but there are few players who he cant back down at the powerforward position. He's hard working so there's a pretty good chance he can be pretty damn good. The fact that Isiah was willing to deal him for Kwame Brown of all people is disturbing to say the least. I had the Bulls on my list of teams to make it in the playoffs. Noone knew that the Nets were going to pick up Carter that easily and they werent going to make the playoffs if they hadnt gotten him. The Cavaliers will be much more improved this upcoming season their practically a lock for the playoffs. Of course I can make these predictions about who will make the playoffs. Unless something incredible happens like all the star players in the East get injured for the season or something like that the Knicks wont make the playoffs. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Isiah has given us 5 promising young players on the roster with Frye, Robinson, Lee, Ariza, and Butler. He?s also in the process of getting the best coach in the game and people are so hesitant in giving him props. Maybe he didn?t tend to the huge financial mess that he didn?t create, but let?s not forget that the Knicks have many problems. Isiah is getting younger, and he?s doing his best to make us a contender in the Eastern Conference and if you ask me and obviously fans of other teams, he?s doing a pretty good job with it. We?re also set for the future with our young core. I think so far, Isiah deserves props for what he?s doing and while the success of the regular season will serve as the verdict, he obviously is doing well with the team.</div> It does not matter whether or not he created it. It was his job to fix it. Period. He did not fix it. He did just the opposite and added to it. Added to it alot if you look at the numbers above. Why should he get props for getting Larry Brown? He didnt do anything. Isiah might be doing his best but it isnt good enough. Isiah has bumbled the job to the point of gross incompetence and he should be fired. Oh yeah I almost forgot about your question. If the Knicks make it to the second round and actually did something worth remembering than I'd build a shrine to Larry Brown for making something out of this mess Isiah calls a team. But that's not going to happen so it's irrelevant. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jose:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeh no doubt, Marbury was the best player we had since Ewing</div> How about we dont insult all the Knick players of the past who actually did something? I'd rather have Sprewell or Houston instead of Marbury maybe even Larry Johnson. And there are quite a few point guards from the Knicks past I'd rather have as well. Mark Jackson, Ron Harper and maybe even Rod Strickland were better point guards to have than Marbury. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
