How Would M.J. fare against Kobe,Wade, or Lebron?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yao was dominating earlier this year and putting up MVP numbers. In a 7 game series, the big men wear the opponent down and they make an impact on the defensive end.

Wade has benefitted from playing with a lot of defensive minded players and also two HOF caliber centers (Shaq & Zo).

Wade would be #2 on my list to build around a perimeter player, but size makes all the difference in a 7 game series.

I think Wade with a decent supporting cast would lose to Duncan, Shaq, Yao or KG with a decent supporting cast.</div>

Shaq = not dominant anymore, and we saw this last year in the finals...you can't expect him to carry the majority of the load on a team and lead them to the promised land anymore

KG = I've never been sure if KG is "that guy" that you build a team around...he'll get you the double double every night, but I've always questioned his leadership ability

Yao = most dominant big man in the game today, but he doesn't have Wades killer instinct, and I've seen teams like Phoenix slow him down (which is why I don't want to play them)

Duncan = you might have a legit argument, except Wade is better in the clutch than him also.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq wasn't healthy last year, but regardless of his stats, he's a difference maker by his sheer size alone. I don't think Miami would have gotten by Chicago last year until Shaq took over. The Bulls were doing a number DWade in that series, Hinrich is probably the best I've seen at one-on-one defense against Wade.

I also question KG's mental toughness, which is why I put him lower down the list. He should be #1 or #2 based on his skills, but he's missing "it."

I don't think you're giving Yao enough credit. Post season basketball is all about defensive stops and halfcourt execution. Starting out with Yao gives you an advantage because he excels at both areas.

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Shaq is a difference maker, but at this point in their careers Wade is a bigger one...if they'd both have the same level of talent around them I'll take Wade to win a series in a heart beat (more clutch, dominant, and can actually shoot freethrows)

I love Yao, but even JVG stated earlier this week that he (and the rockets) need to develop a better killer instinct.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The reason Phoenix makes Yao look bad is the tempo they play. Yao is neutralized when Houston can't control tempo and prevent the other team from running. Yao isn't conditioned to run up and down the floor, it's up to his PG to walk the ball up and force Phoenix to slow down and disrupt their rhythm.
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True, but with teams like Phoenix they will run regardless...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree, look at how bad Miami was when Wade was without Shaq, versus the Heat now with Shaq in and Wade out.
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But Shaq also has Eddie Jones and Jason Williams back, and everyone is actually playing like they give a damn....Wade had to do everything when Shaq was out...he had to create for everyone all while getting his 30 a night (similar to how Kobe struggled without Odom or Walton)

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Miami won the Finals last year on the defensive end and the benefit of all the free throws Wade took.
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exactly, Wade gets to the basket and in turn gets himself to the stripe...that's all him.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The problem I have with Wade is you need a lot of specialists for him to win. You need a lockdown perimeter defender because Wade can't guard the premiere scorers in the league. You need forwards who can shoot the 3ball effectively and defend, and you need shotblockers and space fillers on the inside, because Wade likes to gamble on defense. It's really tough to find that many two way players to build around.
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any player needs specialist....Kobe needs Odom and Walton to set up a lot of his shots....Jordan needed Pippen before he could even win a playoff series....everyone needs someone "special" around them.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is my point, it's easier to replace the things Wade does on the court, than it is with a player like Shaq.</div>

at this stage in his career I'll disagree....if Wade had Eddie Jones,White Chocolate, and everyone actually playing better the Heat would've been more successful without Shaq than they were....Shaq can't produce on both ends of the floor like he used to for me to even consider him one of the top 15 players in the game today.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It took Wade getting the most free throws in the history of the NBA Finals to win a title, that's an extreme scenario and the odds are it won't happen often. Haslem and Zo shutting down Dirk was really overlooked in the series. Those two made the impact on the defensive end Miami needed. Wade provided the offense.
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And???....he got to the line that's what he does and that's a good thing, he also made countless big plays and saved Miami's butts when they were about to go down 3 games to none....yes he had help, but Wade was the primary reason Miami won their title last year.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Using a player's PER to measure the supporting cast, let's compare San Antonio and Miami.

Out of the 194 player rankings the Spurs only have 4 players in the top 194, Miami has 8.
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San Antonio</u>
<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>Tim Duncan - 25.86<br/>Manu Ginobili - 24.42<br/>Tony Parker - 21.01<br/>Bruce Bowen - 6.81<br/></div>
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Miami</u>
<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>Dwyane Wade - 30.19<br/>Shaq O'neal - 22.97<br/>Alonzo Mourning - 17.56<br/>Eddie Jones - 15.95<br/>Jason Willaims - 15.39<br/>Jason Kapono - 14.31<br/>Udonis Haslem - 13.80<br/>James Posey - 12.38<br/></div>

The Heat's supporting cast is far more consistent and productive compared to San Antonio's yet Duncan has his team winning a lot more games.</div>

You seem to be assuming that the Heat supporting cast is being that productive at the same time. Because of all the injuries the Heat have had, that's very rarely been the case. If you want to use PER to evaluate the strength of the support cast, in my opinion it makes more sense to take a weighted average of their PERs based on minutes played, like:

wtPER = (min1*PER1 + min2*PER2 + ... ) / (min1 + min2 ...)

For the Spurs, not including Duncan, it's 14.5. For the Heat, not including Wade, it's 13.5. Also, keep in mind that PER corresponds far more with offensive ability than defensive ability. So, the Spurs supporting cast play significantly better team defense than Miami supporting cast, and that isn't really reflected in the PER.

 

Jordan > Kobe > LeBron > Wade

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jordan > Kobe > LeBron > Wade</div>


great insight.....

 

I don't even know what to say about those lists. I thought by now that we found out the Heat's success is based on Shaquille Oneal. Wade is a great player, no doubt but in my opinion he is not in the top 8.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">no doubt but in my opinion he is not in the top 8.
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no doubt imo you are an idiot.

 

<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">While looking around on ESPN I came across this comment. I don't agree with everything said in the following, but the question is how would M.J. do if he had to face players like Kobe, Wade, and Lebron frequently? I'm not saying that any of these men are better than Jordan currently (at least not yet, because by the end of their careers I think we "might" be able to make a strong argument for either one), but if all 4 of these men played in the same era with players around them of equal talent would we place M.J. up on such a high pedastool? The teams of the 90's were better than the teams of today....and that's without a doubt imo, BUT M.J. didn't face the same competition at the 2 guard/forward spot that the elite guard players do today. Just think Kobe,Wade,Lebron,Tmac,Arenas,Melo,Pierce,Redd,Iverson,Carter,etc. Throughout Jordans career his main competition at his position were Nique and Drexler. While I think both of these guys are great I don't think they match up with the talent that I listed for today....just something to think about.</div>


The game has evolved since the days of Michael Jordan. I think he would really hurt on the defensive side of the ball. Too many rules now and defense is tougher to play. Back then defense was a man's game, now even sissy fouls are called.

ex. The Detroit badboys would never win a title in this era with their style of play. It just wouldn't happen.

Back to Jordan, he would be great, but definitely need to adjust his game and face far superior talent in this age of basketball. As you mention, there are so many more players he would face on the court that could compete with him. I think his defense would be suspect too because of the inablility to handcheck etc....

 

<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">no doubt imo you are an idiot.</div>

I can say the same to you. Shaquille Oneal is still one of the most dominant players. His presence is more important to Heat than Wade's is. Was it coincidence that the Heat sucked it up all year, and Oneal comes back and they start winning? I think not. And then when Wade goes down they continue to win. Like I said before, Wade is a great player but not the most amazing player that everyone makes him out to be.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree, look at how bad Miami was when Wade was without Shaq, versus the Heat now with Shaq in and Wade out.

Miami won the Finals last year on the defensive end and the benefit of all the free throws Wade took.

The problem I have with Wade is you need a lot of specialists for him to win. You need a lockdown perimeter defender because Wade can't guard the premiere scorers in the league. You need forwards who can shoot the 3ball effectively and defend, and you need shotblockers and space fillers on the inside, because Wade likes to gamble on defense. It's really tough to find that many two way players to build around.</div>

When Shaq was out we didn't have Eddie Jones (who's doing most of the damage currently), or any of our important role players. And also have to take into consideration Antoine Walker..was playing the worst basketball of his career. You can't blame Wade for our record while Shaq was out because he was putting up insane numbers and we still won some big games. If you ask anyone who saw all those games we played without Shaq they will tell you Wade was incredible, win or lose he did everything he could for us and he took over in many important games.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The problem I have with Wade is you need a lot of specialists for him to win.</div>

????

Lets go back two seasons ago 2nd round of the playoffs vs. Wizards, Shaq was out for the series and we swept the Wizards with Wade scoring 40 + points in 2 or 3 games in only his second season in the league. Also how about Wades rookie year without Shaq or any big offensive power when he destroyed the Hornets and led us to Game 6 in the 2nd round with his play. I agree completely that Shaq's presence helps the team more than Wades, but saying Wade can't win without "specialists" on his team just doesn't make sence considering what hes accomplished before.

Fatality-
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade is a great player but not the most amazing player that everyone makes him out to be.</div>

WHAT??!! If anything Wade is underated, just because he knows how to get to the line people are knocking him for that and aren't giving him credit for his scoring or his championship for that matter. It's ridicilous, my reminder is to just watch how Wade dominates games, its not all the free throw line, Wade has put the Heat on his back plenty occasions and he's proven time and time again he's a true supertar.

Now as for how M.J would fair against today's superstars, I think he would still dominate and be on top of the league. But he would still have to adjust because of today's NBA rules and style of play. He wouldn't be the best by a huuge margin, but he would still be #1 I think. Kobe Bryant is on MJ's level in my opinion but I still don't think he's there yet. The young stars like Wade/Lebron both have a chance to be on Jordan's level as well with how they've been playing in their short careers. As for comparisons, I would say Wade has more a Jordan style of play taking it in and such. Kobe has more of Jordans shooting game; his outside jumper has helped him become one of the greatest scorers of all time.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can say the same to you. Shaquille Oneal is still one of the most dominant players. His presence is more important to Heat than Wade's is. Was it coincidence that the Heat sucked it up all year, and Oneal comes back and they start winning? I think not. And then when Wade goes down they continue to win. Like I said before, Wade is a great player but not the most amazing player that everyone makes him out to be.
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to say his presence is more important (which i disagree with)is one thing, but to say that he isn't a top 8 player in the game today is just flat out stupid.

name me 8 players who are currently better than Wade.

 

Jordan proved he could score 20 ppg at age 40 which simply amazes me. Lets not forget he averaged 37.1 ppg in one season scoring 3000+ points. I think he would literally destroy the competition today, if Wade gets as many calls as he does Jordan would live on the free throw line.