Politics Hundreds of former prosecutors say Trump would have been indicted if he were not president

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, May 6, 2019.

  1. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    We are former federal prosecutors. We served under both Republican and Democratic administrations at different levels of the federal system: as line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States Attorneys, and senior officials at the Department of Justice. The offices in which we served were small, medium, and large; urban, suburban, and rural; and located in all parts of our country.

    Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

    The Mueller report describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge: conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of corrupt intent and connection to pending proceedings is overwhelming. These include:

    · The President’s efforts to fire Mueller and to falsify evidence about that effort;

    · The President’s efforts to limit the scope of Mueller’s investigation to exclude his conduct; and

    · The President’s efforts to prevent witnesses from cooperating with investigators probing him and his campaign.

    Attempts to fire Mueller and then create false evidence

    Despite being advised by then-White House Counsel Don McGahn that he could face legal jeopardy for doing so, Trump directed McGahn on multiple occasions to fire Mueller or to gin up false conflicts of interest as a pretext for getting rid of the Special Counsel. When these acts began to come into public view, Trump made “repeated efforts to have McGahn deny the story” — going so far as to tell McGahn to write a letter “for our files” falsely denying that Trump had directed Mueller’s termination.

    Firing Mueller would have seriously impeded the investigation of the President and his associates — obstruction in its most literal sense. Directing the creation of false government records in order to prevent or discredit truthful testimony is similarly unlawful. The Special Counsel’s report states: “Substantial evidence indicates that in repeatedly urging McGahn to dispute that he was ordered to have the Special Counsel terminated, the President acted for the purpose of influencing McGahn’s account in order to deflect or prevent scrutiny of the President’s conduct toward the investigation.”

    Attempts to limit the Mueller investigation

    The report describes multiple efforts by the president to curtail the scope of the Special Counsel’s investigation.

    First, the President repeatedly pressured then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions to reverse his legally-mandated decision to recuse himself from the investigation. The President’s stated reason was that he wanted an attorney general who would “protect” him, including from the Special Counsel investigation. He also directed then-White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus to fire Sessions and Priebus refused.

    Second, after McGahn told the President that he could not contact Sessions himself to discuss the investigation, Trump went outside the White House, instructing his former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, to carry a demand to Sessions to direct Mueller to confine his investigation to future elections. Lewandowski tried and failed to contact Sessions in private. After a second meeting with Trump, Lewandowski passed Trump’s message to senior White House official Rick Dearborn, who Lewandowski thought would be a better messenger because of his prior relationship with Sessions. Dearborn did not pass along Trump’s message.

    As the report explains, substantial evidence indicates that the President’s effort to have Sessions limit the scope of the Special Counsel’s investigation to future election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct” — in other words, the President employed a private citizen to try to get the Attorney General to limit the scope of an ongoing investigation into the President and his associates.

    All of this conduct — trying to control and impede the investigation against the President by leveraging his authority over others — is similar to conduct we have seen charged against other public officials and people in powerful positions.

    Witness tampering and intimidation

    The Special Counsel’s report establishes that the President tried to influence the decisions of both Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort with regard to cooperating with investigators. Some of this tampering and intimidation, including the dangling of pardons, was done in plain sight via tweets and public statements; other such behavior was done via private messages through private attorneys, such as Trump counsel Rudy Giuliani’s message to Cohen’s lawyer that Cohen should “leep well tonight[], you have friends in high places.”

    Of course, these aren’t the only acts of potential obstruction detailed by the Special Counsel. It would be well within the purview of normal prosecutorial judgment also to charge other acts detailed in the report.

    We emphasize that these are not matters of close professional judgment. Of course, there are potential defenses or arguments that could be raised in response to an indictment of the nature we describe here. In our system, every accused person is presumed innocent and it is always the government’s burden to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice — the standard set out in Principles of Federal Prosecution — runs counter to logic and our experience.

    As former federal prosecutors, we recognize that prosecuting obstruction of justice cases is critical because unchecked obstruction — which allows intentional interference with criminal investigations to go unpunished — puts our whole system of justice at risk. We believe strongly that, but for the OLC memo, the overwhelming weight of professional judgment would come down in favor of prosecution for the conduct outlined in the Mueller Report.

     
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  2. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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  3. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Bullshit!
     
  4. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    How many actually want to play the fool?

    For that matter how many congressman want to actually vote for impeachment, like a fool?

    Probably none but for the fools.
     
  5. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    "We are former federal prosecutors."

    "Federal" is code for "deep state" and "corporatist." They see a good man trying to drain the swamp, with everything set against him, and they're trying to create a narrative to sink him. He's their greatest nightmare.
     
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  6. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    lol, bullshit? It's right there in black and white marzy. Guess that Mueller report didn't exonerate Donnie after all and it appears Barr was misleading (aka lying to) the American people. Seems to be the norm these days for this administration.
     
  7. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Hundreds of former prosecutors:

     
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  8. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE TOO MANY LAWYERS (AKA LIARS) WORKING IN GOVERNMENT.
     
  9. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    The only reason Donald wants to be re-elected. Once he becomes civillian Trump his ass is grass
     
  10. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    What do you expect Deep State lawyers to say, we're traitors? :dunno:

    Here's a good analogy from a comrade of theirs...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    INDIVIDUAL #1 iS sCrEWeD
     
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  12. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    It's former prosecutors, so they had nothing to do with this investigation. You'll need a different talking point. You can't just go around calling everyone traitors--the term will lose all meaning. Don't you want it to mean "people who investigated Trump for all his many crimes?" and be clear and undiluted?
     
  13. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    This shit is hilarious. People who all had the power to drop cases and make deals with people don't understand how the legal system works?

    This is like saying it should be ok for a cashier to take 100 bucks from the store he works at because the owner does it whenever he wants.

    Trump is the owner of the store and he gets to decide this.

    If Congress doesn't like it I think everyone knows the remedy.

    Are there any laws leftists won't ignore because they are sore losers? Keep the DNC from stealing the next primary, that should be their focus.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  14. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    As of yesterday, the number exceeded 700.
     
  15. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    What laws are 'Leftists' ignoring?
    The prosecutors are saying that if the President could be prosecuted then a case for obstruction would be a slam dunk. The question about the Constitution allowing a conviction of a sitting President is not settled law. It's only that the Justice Department has issued a memo saying that they should not prosecuted a sitting President. So, what happens when the President is voted out such as November of 2020 or on the extremely slim chance that he is reelected and serves until 2024?
    The remedy is a difficult one because either the Democrats impeach the President and he is most assuredly not convicted along a largely party line vote in the Senate or they don't impeach him and get accused of failing to exercise their Constitutional duty.
    Pelosi has said let's turn our attention away from impeachment and toward differences on issues.
     
  16. GhostOfPGA

    GhostOfPGA The late great Paul Allen

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    Medium, lol.
     
  17. bodyman5000 and 1

    bodyman5000 and 1 Lions, Tigers, Me, Bears

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    What laws? The special counsel laws they passed because they were mad about Clinton.

    You can see what Jerrold Nadler said then vs now if you'd like.

    There's not a chance in hell Trump gets convicted of obstruction in court.

    Maybe the lefties should take Pelosi's advice and give it up already.

    Impeach or don't, that's the choice.
     
  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Where did you get your law degree? Same place I got mine?

    barfo
     
  19. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    You don't need a law degree to know anyone who is, or was, a part of the federal government is a crook. Except Trump.
     
  20. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    And except the people he's hired. Until they get fired, at which point the exception no longer applies.

    barfo
     

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