I've had beer spilled on me before. The guy was drunk. I didn't feel the need to beat him up. Shit happens. Was me beating him up going to solve anything? Was it going to undo the fact that beer was spilled on me? All I needed to do to fix the problem was put some Spray and Wash on it, and wash my sweatshirt. Problem solved. What Artest did was wrong. Someone throwing a plastic beer cup at him was hardly endangering his life. If anything, he made his life more at danger by jumping into the stands. "But it was self defense." His life was not in danger. A plastic cup of beer isn't exactly life threatening. He attacked the wrong guy. I don't care if it was a mistake or not, its not condonable. Artest should be held accountable. Jackson isn't exactly in the clear either. He furthered the situation. "But Jackson was trying to back Artest..." Fine. But you didn't expect the fans to come to the support of the fan getting beat up? Jackson should have been pulling Artest out of the fight, not furthering it. And on the court, he was trying to start stuff with Hamilton. He was looking for a fight... O'Neal came from across the camera, running, and punching a guy. HE RAN TO THE GUY to punch him. O'Neal was not at risk nor was Artest at that point, because the fan and Artest had been seperated. Most likely the fan insulted Artest or the Pacers, and O'Neal decided to take action. Hope he enjoys the suspension. Because clearly, it was worth it. Wallace is at fault for starting the altercation with the Pacers. But Artest is the one who turned it from a controllable situation into a riot. Yes, the Beer Guy and the Chair Guy need to be held accountable. But so does Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal. Suspensions and fines are in order. I only hope Stern hands them out appropriately, including Wallace.
[quote name='Vintage']Wallace is at fault for starting the altercation with the Pacers. But Artest is the one who turned it from a controllable situation into a riot. QUOTE] exactly...........
Geezz... you sound like another guy who doesn't mind being thrown a beer at. I admire your angel heart I really do the world needs more people like you. But one fact that we shouldn't neglect is that people tend to take that kindness for granted, they think if you don't fight back, you're just some weak sissy... and it's actually no big deal to be called "weak sissy" but what matters is they will throw more things at you because they think you won't do anything about it. Will you really be able to walk away and act as if nothing happens? Maybe you could but you'll be lying a great deal to yourself and that'll piss you even more. Even Mr. Nice Guy can lose it once in a while, remember back in 1997 when Grant Hill pushed Dennis Rodman hard after a hard foul that floored him? And Ron Artest isn't exactly a Mr. Nice Guy in the first place.
what made me laugh is Carlisle and other who were sayin, i was beating for my life bla bla bla... that made me laugh, really
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Wallace is at fault for starting the altercation with the Pacers. But Artest is the one who turned it from a controllable situation into a riot. </div> exactly.....
I thought that was funny as well. But what humored me the most was when Carlisle said his guys were "restraining themselves". Ha! Yeah Right! It was the exact opposite.
This is a nationally televised game. Artest has had the reputation ALREADY man... don't you get it. He already had the reputation of being a thug before this game... The least he could have done was to step back away from the fans. But he has to show his stupidity and go for the wrong fan of all people. Did he punch the guy who threw something at him? What stupid fans did they beat the heck out of? The ones who threw the "liquid" or the ones just standing there aghast? So the next time someone cuts you off in traffic, even though you don't know who exactly did it, go after the nexts guy you see and ram him with your car. Justified? I bet to you it is... It's one thing to call yourself a man by going after the wrong guy who you think threw the bottle at you and then end up looking like an idot on natinal TV as well as getting your idiot decission played over and over again on ever news station. But it is another to be a man and know when to back off. Artest is a psycho now and I don't know what he was thinking while lying on the scorers table in a relaxed position with a smirk on his face. I don't know what he was thinking when he was talking on the radio station. Players are NOT supposed to take matters into their own hands when situations like this happen. That is what security is for. What would have happened if someone was "accidentally" killed in that fight, whether it be by stampede or by a lethal punch? It would turnout to be like one of those European Soccer matches and we know we're better than that. That Jermaine O'Niel punch could have been lethal (although that fan shouldn't have been on the court) and then where would we be? If the NBA doesn't persecute these people with harsh punishments then this is liable to happen again with possibly greater consequences. I doubt this will happen again in the near future due to more security and stricter foul calling.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PupMelo:</div><div class="quote_post">Geezz... you sound like another guy who doesn't mind being thrown a beer at. I admire your angel heart I really do the world needs more people like you. But one fact that we shouldn't neglect is that people tend to take that kindness for granted, they think if you don't fight back, you're just some weak sissy... and it's actually no big deal to be called "weak sissy" but what matters is they will throw more things at you because they think you won't do anything about it. Will you really be able to walk away and act as if nothing happens? Maybe you could but you'll be lying a great deal to yourself and that'll piss you even more. Even Mr. Nice Guy can lose it once in a while, remember back in 1997 when Grant Hill pushed Dennis Rodman hard after a hard foul that floored him? And Ron Artest isn't exactly a Mr. Nice Guy in the first place.</div> So......that makes it excusable then?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">So......that makes it excusable then?</div> Of course it is not excusable, angel... what Artest did, although an act of self-defense, was still wrong and deserving of that 30 game suspension as AllNet rumoured. But don't go around saying that you "don't understand" why Artest did that because you "wouldn't have done that". It's easier to speak with words than actions... you were Ron, you would go after that fan too (and hopefully this time not the wrong fan), if you were not, you're just a wuss.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PupMelo:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course it is not excusable, angel... what Artest did, although an act of self-defense, was still wrong and deserving of that 30 game suspension as AllNet rumoured. But don't go around saying that you "don't understand" why Artest did that because you "wouldn't have done that". It's easier to speak with words than actions... you were Ron, you would go after that fan too (and hopefully this time not the wrong fan), if you were not, you're just a wuss.</div> Its funny, really. I guess you are using the term angel in an attempt to belittle me. In actuality, its a compliment. Maybe its bec. of past experiences. Maybe its because I have learned from mistakes. Maybe its because of maturity. I don't know. But, if/when you have a professional job, are you going to beat up everyone over relatively small incidents. If someone insults you, are you going to cold clock them? If in the unlikelihood someone throws water on you at work, are you going to pound the living piss out of them? I doubt so. Because you'd lose your job. And if you did, good luck explaining in your next interview why you got fired...."Uh...because I beat this guy up bec. he threw water on me...or insulted me..." Because that interview will end faster than it started. Unfortunetly, you will never be placed in the situation Artest is in; to make millions of dollars playing basketball. Welcome to the real world. You better get accustomed to it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course it is not excusable, angel... what Artest did, although an act of self-defense, was still wrong and deserving of that 30 game suspension as AllNet rumoured. But don't go around saying that you "don't understand" why Artest did that because you "wouldn't have done that". It's easier to speak with words than actions... you were Ron, you would go after that fan too (and hopefully this time not the wrong fan), if you were not, you're just a wuss.</div> So it's your position that the only self-respecting thing to do was to charge into the stands and attack the person that threw the drink at him? The law calls what Artest did felony assault and inciting a riot. Common sense calls what Artest did an incredibly immature and juvenile overreaction to a classless act by a fan.
^ Spot on Vintage, this isn't a pick-up game on the playgrounds, this is an NBA game involving professional players. Different rules apply when you're in a position of scrutiny, whether it's fair or not. I don't understand people excusing Artest on the grounds that "I would have done the same thing" and "He was only retaliating, I can understand that". Tough titties Ron - the league needs to crack down on the Pistons fans, ban the worst offenders for life, make the Pistons play the next 20 home games in an empty arena - but that still doesn't excuse Artest and Jackson's actions. In the position these guys are in as professionals, you are required to restrain yourself. Not go hurtling into the stands after players, no matter what they do. Can you imagine if every player in the world of professional sports jumped into the stands everytime they were heckled, abused and had stuff thrown at them? It would be absolute mayhem. If you throw beer on me on the street, I'll retaliate, but if I'm a professional basketballer, I simply am not justified in doing that. No ifs or buts about it.
Exactly. And where do you stop? Shit, why not just kill the fan. After all, if its self defense, who cares?
Vintage, that was right on the money. And for those saying it's justified because he was retaliating or self-defense - in real life, you do what Artest did if someone throws beer at you in a bar or something, you are the one who's going to get arrested. You'll spend the night in jail, then have to post bail, then if you have a clean record, you'll go to an anger management program once a week anywhere from six months to a year. By the 30th week you'll be feeling very conforted in the fact that you are not a wuss. You have to pay a fee for it too. That little satisfaction will end up costing you thousands of dollars. Artest is going to get what he deserves. Maybe now he'll clean up his act.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">Can you imagine if every player in the world of professional jumped into the stands everytime they were heckled, abused and had stuff thrown at them? It would be absolute mayhem. If you throw beer on me on the street, I'll retaliate, but if I'm a professional basketballer, I simply am not justified in doing that. No ifs or buts about it.</div> That's a more realistic explanation... it shows that you're a person... not just some emotionless robot who is doing his job. I'm only annoyed at liars who said they wouldn't do anything even at the bars when some kind of guy you don't know just throws a beer at you. Go home, wash the clothes, and problem solved right? Any person with the right mind with the right balls will want to defend himself. If I was at the bar and someone threw the beer at me, I wouldn't straight away sucker-punch him but I would first think, "is this guy my friend?" or "is it my birthday today?" or "is beer-throwing some sort of culture at least in this bar?" you can exercise these questions with less than 5 seconds and bam if the anwers are "no" to all of them, I would definitely make a deal out of it with him. However, if I was Ron Artest that night, I admit at first I'd been saying I was gonna do what he did but after seeing your post... that made me re-think... genuinely... and probably I'll say just this: I would make my best effort to gather my restraint and avoid anything ugly like that incident ever occuring at all cost.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PupMelo:</div><div class="quote_post">That's a more realistic explanation... it shows that you're a person... not just some emotionless robot who is doing his job. I'm only annoyed at liars who said they wouldn't do anything even at the bars when some kind of guy you don't know just throws a beer at you. Go home, wash the clothes, and problem solved right? Any person with the right mind with the right balls will want to defend himself. If I was at the bar and someone threw the beer at me, I wouldn't straight away sucker-punch him but I would first think, "is this guy my friend?" or "is it my birthday today?" or "is beer-throwing some sort of culture at least in this bar?" you can exercise these questions with less than 5 seconds and bam if the anwers are "no" to all of them, I would definitely make a deal out of it with him. However, if I was Ron Artest that night, I admit at first I'd been saying I was gonna do what he did but after seeing your post... that made me re-think... genuinely... and probably I'll say just this: I would make my best effort to gather my restraint and avoid anything ugly like that incident ever occuring at all cost.</div> So I don't have balls bec. I wouldn't have fought that guy? That's an interesting way to interpet that. Or maybe, I just don't see the justification of beating someone up over something trivial. I hope the latter part of your post is true. That you did genuinely re-think this. Because you will be placed in situations where you have the choice to either control your anger, or unleash it. And when you do come to that point of time, think about the consequences. Do you think Artest would do that over again, if given the chance? I doubt it. I doubt Jackson, O'Neal, or Artest would do it all over again. I bet they wish they had the opportunity to go back into time and re-do their decision. There are some things in life worth fighting for. Getting beer spilled, poured, or thrown at you isn't one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There are some things in life worth fighting for. Getting beer spilled, poured, or thrown at you isn't one.</div> that wasnt just beer spilled on him, that was an insult to all the players. artest stood up for himself and taught the lunatic fans a lesson.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting yanix:</div><div class="quote_post">that wasnt just beer spilled on him, that was an insult to all the players. artest stood up for himself and taught the lunatic fans a lesson.</div> Yep. At the cost of a 30 game suspension, most likely millions of dollars in lawsuits, possible criminal charges..... But he sure taught them a lesson, huh?
Am I the only one who thinks Artest would have gained a lot more respect by ignoring the fans and heading straight to the locker room? He certainly would have from me. Sometimes fighting isn't required to be the bigger man, so to speak.
