Is Arenas The Right Fit?

Discussion in 'Washington Wizards' started by Mr. J, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. Mr. J

    Mr. J Triple Up

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    Is Arenas the right fit for the Wizards? There is no doubt in my mind that he can put the ball in the basket, but I don?t know if his style is fitting. I never really got to catch many Wizards games this season, however, in the playoffs I really made sure to watch them and it wasn?t until then I realized Arenas should change his game up.

    In my opinion, Arenas takes scoring point guard too far. I would qualify Arenas as more of a shooting guard before I consider him a point guard. He takes horrible shots and doesn?t shoot them at a high percentage either. In addition, his assist to turnover ratio is nothing to write home about either. One thing that makes me say this is because of Washington being the worst passing team in the NBA. Game 4 of the Heat/Wizards series when Arenas fouled out, the team ran much more fluently and everyone was getting involved instead of Arenas hogging up the ball shooting on a terrible percentage.

    Then there?s games where Arenas refuses to shoot the ball and he racks up tons of assists and his team plays better and they win. That is how he should play all the time and the results have always been positive. If he?s playing point guard, it just seems he should be more team-oriented like he was during those games.

    I?m not saying Arenas is a bad player at all, in fact, he?s an all-star and wasn?t even thought to be this good when he first entered the league, but the way he plays based on the few times I?ve seen, isn?t really too good for the team. In my honest opinion, I think the Wizards would be much more successful if Arenas maybe scored 20 points and dished out seven or eight assists. Does anyone else feel this way?
     
  2. playmaker15

    playmaker15 JBB Droppin Dimes

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    I have to agree. He takes shot oppotunities away from other offensive threats like Jamison and Hughes who still manage to put up around 20 a game. He shoots way to much. However, they could try and work out a deal on draft day with a team to get either of the top 3 guards who are all team players.
     
  3. P.A.P.

    P.A.P. JBB Fresh Start

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    Well it makes sense that you consider him an SG because he was a SG coming into the NBA...so it's obvious he's going to have that mentality. The Wizards knew they were getting a SG as a PG when they signed him back in 2003. They were willing to do get that star player in here to help them to the next level, and it has paid off thus far. He's not part of the problem. If you were to subtract him, who would you replace him with? Their aren't many real PG's in the NBA that are worthy of starting. He's a tremendous scorer. You can't just tell him to go out and tell him to average 7-8 APG. If you were to tell him to do that, he would have to change his game around because he's more of a scorer than a playmaker like a Wade (SG who played PG). And Wade this season was second in TPG even though he averaged near 7 APG. His game is scoring, he can play the point like a natural point, but you would be mis-using him then because that's not what he's suited for.

    He does take many bad shots, but he's a guy that takes tough shots all the time and makes many of them. If you want him to be that 18.5 and 6.5 guy he was back in 2002-2003 (35 MPG), then you would have him create more shots for his teammates, which he isn't great at doing like Wade, Iverson and co. Just keep him as he is, and I would get the Wizards staff to help him with his decision making.
     
  4. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Is Arenas the right fit for the Wizards? There is no doubt in my mind that he can put the ball in the basket, but I don?t know if his style is fitting. I never really got to catch many Wizards games this season, however, in the playoffs I really made sure to watch them and it wasn?t until then I realized Arenas should change his game up.</div>

    I really don't think it is time to ask him to change his game yet. This was his first season truly running the point. Before that, he shared the opportunity with Larry Hughes. I think he did a fairly good job for a player who made adaptions to his game.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In my opinion, Arenas takes scoring point guard too far. I would qualify Arenas as more of a shooting guard before I consider him a point guard. He takes horrible shots and doesn?t shoot them at a high percentage either. In addition, his assist to turnover ratio is nothing to write home about either. One thing that makes me say this is because of Washington being the worst passing team in the NBA. Game 4 of the Heat/Wizards series when Arenas fouled out, the team ran much more fluently and everyone was getting involved instead of Arenas hogging up the ball shooting on a terrible percentage. </div>

    Banks already clarified this. Arenas was a SG coming into the league, so of course he is going to have the habit of shooting. To my recollection, I don't remember the team running any smoother at all, in fact, I think we got worse. We struggled to score and Arenas was the only one really playing, I think the rest of the team gave up.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then there?s games where Arenas refuses to shoot the ball and he racks up tons of assists and his team plays better and they win. That is how he should play all the time and the results have always been positive. If he?s playing point guard, it just seems he should be more team-oriented like he was during those games.</div>

    Those are once in a while games, I think our team would be worse if Arenas played like that more often. His nature is an offensive threat, it can't completely change. I am honestly more satisfied with 26, 5, and 4 compared to 18, 6, and 6. I think it helps our team out more because when we struggle to score, we look for him to take things over. Arenas has been quoted multiple times that he comes out the first 8 mins of each half and looks for his teammates, if they aren't getting shots in the basket, he will start to take over. Once again, I have no problem with this.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I?m not saying Arenas is a bad player at all, in fact, he?s an all-star and wasn?t even thought to be this good when he first entered the league, but the way he plays based on the few times I?ve seen, isn?t really too good for the team. In my honest opinion, I think the Wizards would be much more successful if Arenas maybe scored 20 points and dished out seven or eight assists. Does anyone else feel this way?</div>

    I don't feel that way. I understand your lack of knowledge about the Wizards, for a better term--your ignorance, because you've rarely seen them play. But, it was Arenas' first year running the point by himself, and I think he did a fine job. We made the playoffs with a very inexperienced team, we will only get better.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker31:</div><div class="quote_post">I have to agree. He takes shot oppotunities away from other offensive threats like Jamison and Hughes who still manage to put up around 20 a game. He shoots way to much. However, they could try and work out a deal on draft day with a team to get either of the top 3 guards who are all team players.</div>

    Takes shots away from Jamison? Have you seen the horrendous shots that Jamison throws up? Arenas is a much better fit for this team than Jamison. Antawn settles for shots just inside the 3 point line. He shoots a very low percentage from there and his defense is absolutely atrocious. Hughes is good, but he doesn't have the best shot selection either, in fact, he hurt us much more in the playoffs than Arenas did. He tried way to hard to take over the games, especially down in the clutch, and things just didn't fall for him.

    To trade Arenas would be stupid. That simple, he is a young and rising star in this league, you don't go trading talent like that.
     
  5. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    The backcourt duo of Arenas and Hughes works IMO. If you look at the Wizards roster Arenas and Hughes are their two best scoring options, which is why Arenas has a larger responsibility to score. Aside from Jamison, who's out of position at the 4, you have Jeffries and Haywood. If Kwame Brown turned out to be the low post threat the Wizards hoped for, then Arenas would defer more to him in the post. I think the Wizards should consider bringing Jamison in as a 6th man, he excelled in Dallas coming off the bench. Right now he's a defensive liability and takes too, many shots from the perimeter. However, put him on the court off the bench and he'll have a better edge in the matchups and his defensive lapses won't be as crucial.

    The Wizards need to surround Hughes and Arenas with a strong defensive SF.
     
  6. playmaker15

    playmaker15 JBB Droppin Dimes

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    Dont they start Jeffries at 4 and Jamison at 3? If not then your right he is way top small to be a PF.
     
  7. Mr. J

    Mr. J Triple Up

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">I really don't think it is time to ask him to change his game yet. This was his first season truly running the point. Before that, he shared the opportunity with Larry Hughes. I think he did a fairly good job for a player who made adaptions to his game.</div>
    I think everyone can stand to be more team-oriented especially if he assigned the duties as point guard. Since he came in the league in 2000 he had to expect to play some point guard and he did that in Golden State. He had a 5 year adaptation period.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Banks already clarified this. Arenas was a SG coming into the league, so of course he is going to have the habit of shooting. To my recollection, I don't remember the team running any smoother at all, in fact, I think we got worse. We struggled to score and Arenas was the only one really playing, I think the rest of the team gave up.</div>
    Thanks for the clear up, I didn?t know that at all. This still goes back to what we were talking about originally. I think he should be more team-oriented and change his old habits; he?s not in college anymore. I?m not sure what game you were recalling, but are you sure Arenas was the only one playing? He shot 5-17 from the field, and 1-7 from the 3-point line. After he fouled out, the Wizards went on a 12-0 run due to everyone getting involved and ball movement.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Those are once in a while games, I think our team would be worse if Arenas played like that more often. His nature is an offensive threat, it can't completely change. I am honestly more satisfied with 26, 5, and 4 compared to 18, 6, and 6. I think it helps our team out more because when we struggle to score, we look for him to take things over. Arenas has been quoted multiple times that he comes out the first 8 mins of each half and looks for his teammates, if they aren't getting shots in the basket, he will start to take over. Once again, I have no problem with this.</div>
    When Arenas scores 40+, I believe they are 1-4. When he decides to limit his shooting, they are 3-0. I think that?s a valuable stat. If Arenas decided to go 20/7-8, the Wizards would be more effective than if he went 25/5. If he gets 3-4 more assists while getting 5 less points, the Wizards get 1-7 more points. The also teammates become better involved and he won?t have to feel like ?the rest of the team gave up.? Arenas needs to do a better job on getting his teammates involved not only during ? of the game.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't feel that way. I understand your lack of knowledge about the Wizards, for a better term--your ignorance, because you've rarely seen them play. But, it was Arenas' first year running the point by himself, and I think he did a fine job. We made the playoffs with a very inexperienced team, we will only get better.</div>
    I watched them pretty much any time they?re nationally televised games which means I?m in the same boat as you unless you have league pass. I?m just saying I think the Wizards would be much better off if Arenas, the point guard and did more passing instead of scoring.
     
  8. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">The backcourt duo of Arenas and Hughes works IMO. If you look at the Wizards roster Arenas and Hughes are their two best scoring options, which is why Arenas has a larger responsibility to score. Aside from Jamison, who's out of position at the 4, you have Jeffries and Haywood. If Kwame Brown turned out to be the low post threat the Wizards hoped for, then Arenas would defer more to him in the post. I think the Wizards should consider bringing Jamison in as a 6th man, he excelled in Dallas coming off the bench. Right now he's a defensive liability and takes too, many shots from the perimeter. However, put him on the court off the bench and he'll have a better edge in the matchups and his defensive lapses won't be as crucial.

    The Wizards need to surround Hughes and Arenas with a strong defensive SF.</div>

    I agree with this post 100%. Jamison is playing out of position at the 4, and it is really hurting us. If we could get a PF and a defensive-minded SF, bringing Jamison off of the bench would be ideal for this team, he could be our Ben Gordon. That is our major issue, we need to get a big man presence going here. Kwame Brown's fallout really hurt us in the Miami series.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker31:</div><div class="quote_post">Dont they start Jeffries at 4 and Jamison at 3? If not then your right he is way top small to be a PF.</div>

    Nope, Jeffries starts at the 3 for us, Jamison at the 4.
     
  9. playmaker15

    playmaker15 JBB Droppin Dimes

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    wow I owuld prefer Jeffries at the 4 wouldn't you?
     
  10. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I think everyone can stand to be more team-oriented especially if he assigned the duties as point guard. Since he came in the league in 2000 he had to expect to play some point guard and he did that in Golden State. He had a 5 year adaptation period.</div>

    5 year adaption period running the point part-time, not full time. This was his first year running it full time and he did a hell of a job for someone who is used to being a SG, atleast in my mind he did...then again, he is my favorite player so there could be some bias there.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Thanks for the clear up, I didn?t know that at all. This still goes back to what we were talking about originally. I think he should be more team-oriented and change his old habits; he?s not in college anymore. I?m not sure what game you were recalling, but are you sure Arenas was the only one playing? He shot 5-17 from the field, and 1-7 from the 3-point line. After he fouled out, the Wizards went on a 12-0 run due to everyone getting involved and ball movement.</div>

    Alright, thank you for clearing that up. As I said, to my recollection, I don't remember that game well..I tried to forget that series, thanks for bring back old nightmares [​IMG]

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When Arenas scores 40+, I believe they are 1-4. When he decides to limit his shooting, they are 3-0. I think that?s a valuable stat. If Arenas decided to go 20/7-8, the Wizards would be more effective than if he went 25/5. If he gets 3-4 more assists while getting 5 less points, the Wizards get 1-7 more points. The also teammates become better involved and he won?t have to feel like ?the rest of the team gave up.? Arenas needs to do a better job on getting his teammates involved not only during ? of the game.</div>

    No one is saying he needs to score 40 points, I just don't think he needs to drop his production in scoring. A lot of times this year, we got no production from the other players becuase of missed shots, they were given opportunities, they just didn't produce. Arenas gave them those opportunities, as the star of the team, if your players aren't producing when given the shot, you'll take over, it's just common sense, every star would do it.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I watched them pretty much any time they?re nationally televised games which means I?m in the same boat as you unless you have league pass. I?m just saying I think the Wizards would be much better off if Arenas, the point guard and did more passing instead of scoring.</div>

    I think they would do better for a limited period of time, and then teams would start to adapt. We don't have a great surrounding cast. Outside of Hughes and Arenas, our cast is very shady...that is including Jamison. I think it is necessary for Arenas to score like he does, he gets to the basket at will. I'm not saying his shot selection is good, because I think it could be a lot better, but I don't think he needs to stop shooting. He gets to the line a lot and he gets to the hoop with ease, it got us to the playoffs this year, all we need are a few more pieces -- decent big man, defensive minded sf, and a good bench player, and Washington will be a major threat.
     
  11. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker31:</div><div class="quote_post">wow I owuld prefer Jeffries at the 4 wouldn't you?</div>

    No, Jeffries is a twig. I don't think he could survive at the 4. He would hurt us there more than Jamison.
     
  12. og15

    og15 JBB *********

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In my opinion, Arenas takes scoring point guard too far. I would qualify Arenas as more of a shooting guard before I consider him a point guard. He takes horrible shots and doesn?t shoot them at a high percentage either. In addition, his assist to turnover ratio is nothing to write home about either. One thing that makes me say this is because of Washington being the worst passing team in the NBA. Game 4 of the Heat/Wizards series when Arenas fouled out, the team ran much more fluently and everyone was getting involved instead of Arenas hogging up the ball shooting on a terrible percentage</div>
    Not a good example. This is so interesting because some guy on RealGM wrote an article with this same argument. I mean it might have just been a conincidence, but let's consider the rest of that series and the rest of the playoffs where Arenas had the highest +/- on the team, and when he was out, they were clearly struggling.

    About Arenas taking terrible shots, well everyone takes terrible shots at times, but let's not act like he's a bad shooter, or low%/effieciency scorer.

    Let's take a look at his regular season numbers why don't we:

    43.1% FG | 36.5% 3PT | 81.4% FT ---- 49.8% eFG | 54.7% TS

    Now I'll compare to Wade, not to make a comparison of the players, but because Wade's a high percentage guard

    47.8% FG | 28.9% 3PT | 76.2% FT ---- 48.3% eFG | 54.0% TS

    So are you telling me a guy who is more efficient from the field when you take into account 3PT A/M, and also overall a more efficient scorer than Dwyane Wade who is one of the most efficient scoring guards is shooting a low%? Even without his efficiency numbers his percentages are still comparable to the pure shooters at guard except he's a better slasher than them.
    Ray Allen: 42.6% FG | 37.6% 3PT
    Michael Redd: 44.1% FG | 35.5% 3PT
    Mike Bibby: 44.3% FG | 36.0% 3PT

    Now in the playoffs he didn't shoot well, but 80 games says more than 2 playoffs series' about what kind of player he is considering it was his first time in the post-season.

    Arenas is not a pure PG, let's not try and make him what he's not. He's a great player, great and efficient scorer, very talented slasher and passer, and overall a good player. Before you start to talk about his numbers you have to realize what kind of role he players in Washington's offense.

    Arenas shared ball handling and playmaking duties with Larry Hughes during the season. The Wizards basically had 2 PG's on the team. In addition to that, the team didn't have much of an inside presence in terms of scoring through the year, and also didn't have outside shooters [except Hayes who got injured]. The drive and dish game was slightly hindered by these factors, but Arenas' passing game was also hindered by this, the offense, and the fact that he was not the singular playmaker.

    Hughes was good early in the year with his passing, but digressed later in the year, and became more of a one on one show and less of a passer.

    When Hughes got injured, Arenas' numbers were:

    <font color="Navy">January [8 games]:</font> 29.0 PPG | 3.9 RPG | 5.4 APG | 1.75 SPG | 2.8 TPG | 1.93 A/T | 38.0% FG | 34.4% 3PT | 13.4 FTA | 37.5% | 52.7% TS [he was saved by getting to the line 13 times] | 43.4 MPG

    <font color="Navy">February [12 games]:</font> 29.4 PPG | 5.0 RPG | 6.3 APG | 2.75 SPG | 2.9 TPG | 2.17 A/T | 45.1% FG | 39.5% 3PT | 7.6 FTA | 51.1% eFG | 54.5% TS | 41.4 MPG


    As you can see, his assists numbers were higher both months without Hughes, and especially in February where he went up a whole assist a game without a noteworthy increase in minutes. The January increase can be noted to the MPG increase. The other big thing is that his TPG also decreased in this period.

    I agree that Arenas as a 20-22 PPG scorer who averages 6-8 APG would be much better and fit the team a lot better. The problem is that EJ's offense, and the way the team functions doesn't allow him to be that player right now.

    Doesn't it seem weird to you that in GS in his second season he was averaging 6.3 APG in 35 MPG, and all of a sudden dropped as soon as he became a Wizard?

    Well it wasn't a conincidence, it was due to the way the Wizards offense is ran, and his role on the team. When you watch him play you see that he's basically unstopable in getting to the lane, and could be extremely effective as a drive and dish PG, but EJ doesn't call for that in the offense.
     
  13. King James X3

    King James X3 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Arenas makes The Wizards, there is simply too many players on that team that do the same thing. Jamison, Arenas, and Hughes all dominate the ball in order to thrive offensively. It didn't work in Golden State, the trio isn't going to win any championships here either unless they get Shaq in their lineup and that just ain't gonna happen. Keep Arenas. Keep Jamison, play him at Small Foward. Get a more defensive oriented, role playing shooting guard. Than get a back to the basket player who can dominate on the block on both ends of the floor. Elton Brand or Carlos Boozer would be a good fit on that roster in my opinion. I think this team would do alot better if that were the case.
     
  14. Mr. J

    Mr. J Triple Up

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    Okay, I see. Just a suggestion to help the Wizards out.
     
  15. j0se

    j0se JBB Banned Member

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    Wizards need a more consistant PF who could get physical and play defense.


    Wizards offense is fine, Hughes is a pretty good defender, and Jamison and Arenas aren't bad.

    Pistons will get old, and Wizards, Nets, Pacers will be contenders in the eastern conference in my opinion

    lol (play Ramos) [​IMG]
     
  16. og15

    og15 JBB *********

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    I think we actually had a thread similar to this before. I personally would like to see Arenas be more of a 20 PPG scorer, and improve his assists to about 7-8 APG. He's capable of doing it with his penetrating ability, but I also feel the way the team is ran restricts him from being that type of player.
     

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