Is it too soon to talk about defensive rating?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Duckhook, Oct 24, 2022.

  1. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    sorry...I don't buy that stuff about the smallish guards being the problem....it's not optimal, but that isn't the issue, at all, IMO

    if it was the problem, then that 7 game stretch when Dame went out and Winslow, a pretty good defender, moved into the starting lineup would have produced better team defensive numbers. How did that work out considering Portland's current defensive rating is 114.5; Blazer defensive rating in those 7 games:

    Milwaukee - 118.8 --> 4.3 points worse
    Cleveland - 131.6 --> 17.1 points worse
    NY - 120.5 --> 6 points worse
    Brooklyn - 125.4 --> 10.9 points worse
    LA Clippers - 121.4 --> 6.9 point worse
    LA Lakers - 131.4 --> 16.9 points worse
    Utah - 113.4 --> 1.1 points better

    well, look at that. The first thing to keep in mind is that the current defensive rating of 114.5 is quite a bit worse than where the Blazers were just before Dame went out with his injury. I pay attention to team numbers and IIRC Portland's defensive rating at that point in time was in the 110-111 range. So, look at those 'points worse' numbers there and add 3-4 points to that differential

    meaning that in all 7 games Dame missed Portland's defensive rating was worse than with Dame...a lot worse...on average by 8.7-12.7 points worse. It sure seems obvious that the 'two small bad defense guards' excuse that so many reach for doesn't withstand much scrutiny

    and it certainly didn't withstand scrutiny in 2017-18 when with the 'small-no-defense-starting-backcourt' of Dame/CJ Portland posted a defensive rating of 106.4 which ranked 8th in the NBA. How did Portland do that with Dame/CJ, especially considering that gave 21 minutes a game to the diminutive Shabazz Napier? I've looked at that season, and the seasons on either side before and I'm convinced the key to that defense was Ed Davis, a very underrated defender. He wasn't the only reason; he was welded at the hip to Zach Collins as the bench big rotation. And the starting forwards were Aminu & Harkless. Along with Nurkic starting & Evan Turner, Portland maintained defensive presence along the front-line for 48 minutes.

    I like Eubanks; and he's a decent rim-protector and shot-blocker. But his man & zone defense is not good. He's not anywhere close to Ed Davis as a defender. Might be better on offense but that's another issue

    the optimal situation is having several 2-way players, especially at wing and bigs. Players who can 'fill-the-basket' on offense while playing some elite defense on the other end of the floor. Nurkic-Grant-Hart are rather sporadic at filling both those roles. Hart works his ass off but he's not elite on either end of the floor. Nurkic is inconsistent. Grant has been really good on offense, but not so good on defense, partly because Chauncey is bouncing his assignments around so much. Winslow is solid defensively but pretty empty on offense. Eubanks & Watford are meh on both ends, last night notwithstanding

    However, Portland should be quite a bit better than they are on defense and that falls on the coaches & the schemes they are running. But everything I see says the Dame/Ant combo is not the problem; it's just a handy scapegoat that people reach for
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  2. PDXFonz

    PDXFonz I’m listening

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    I like how you ended the list at portland as if to give the appearance that we are the worst in the league
     
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  3. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    I like how you assumed my intentions, incorrectly. Go look at my previous screen shot where the Blazers are 20th and I also included 24 teams because I took a quick screenshot and there are only 24 teams that fit. I made sure to include the league rank. I'd assume everyone here knows there are more than 24 teams in the NBA.

    While you're at it, go call out Duckhook for trying to make the Blazers look like they were 4th to last in the league back when they were 7th because he only included 10 teams.

    Do an extra 30 seconds of research next time.
     
  4. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Nah FAMS, we don’t need a screen shot to show we are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. And whoever thinks there are 24 teams in the league doesn’t deserve to post here. Without looking it up, when was the last time there were 24 teams? Late 80s? I dont’ rememeber.
     
  5. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    "we were f-ing shit" on defense

    "really f-ing bad"

    sounds about right. this decline in drtg is eerily similar to what happened last year when our defense went to shit after getting scouted.

    i really hope our better personnel (especially the vets) can figure out the counters. Chauncey can't let this slippage happen.
     
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  6. PDXFonz

    PDXFonz I’m listening

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    I never said those were your intentions, I said that is how you made it seem, but the fact that you got so defensive speaks volumes to me.

    How long do you think it would take you to research how to fix your problem? Cause it really seems to me like you’re the one who messed up and are now getting upset because the way it is portrayed is not the way you meant for it to be.

    Here, I’ll save you the time…
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    My posts have been clear and consistent for those who know how many teams are in the NBA. For those of you who don't, I can't help you.

    Does this make you happier? Does this make you think we're in 1st place now that there is only 7 teams in the NBA?

    upload_2022-12-11_14-31-51.png
     
  8. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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  9. Blazinaway

    Blazinaway Well-Known Member

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    Way to tell it like it was Josh! We stunk on D, Minny had a nice layup drill goin last night, hard to fathom how much we have regressed.
     
  10. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I really think it's the toxic combination of two small sub par defensive guards and an immobile center and then no height after that slow center. I never thought that Dame, CJ and Nurk could work to give us consistently good defense and I don't think that Dame, Ant and Nurk can either.
     
  11. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    What about the games we didn't have two small guards? That wasn't better. Dame was our best perimeter defender last night. Nurk has been really solid defensively this year. The Dame, CJ, and Nurk pairing finished in the top 10 defensively before.
     
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  12. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I talked about the two-small-bad-defense-guards earlier in this thread. Essentially, I think that's a red herring...I do not believe that is the problem Portland has. If it was, then we would have seen Portland's defense improve i the 7 games Dame missed. At the time of his injury, Portland's defensive rating was under 111.0 (IIRC). In the 7 games Dame missed (and Winslow replaced Dame in the starting lineup) the defensive ratings were:

    118.8
    131.8
    120.5
    125.4
    121.4
    131.4
    113.4

    if you average those out (yeah, I know it doesn't quite work that way) that a 7 game defensive rating of 123.2; which is around 12 points worse that where the Blazers were before Dame went out. They only had one small-no-defense guard over those 7 games and their defense was a disaster

    further, in the 2017-18 season Portland finished 8th in the NBA in defense with Dame/CJ as the back court. Now, the argument of length has merit IMO because that season Portland had Nurkic, Ed Davis, Zach, & Meyers as bigs, with Aminu, Harkless, and Turner as the wing length

    I think the two-small-guards-make-for-bad-defense is a false flag. It's an easy excuse/scapegoat that people reach for...I've reached for it myself....but I do not believe that's a major issue.
     
  13. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    the team is better defensively with dame.

    think that is unequivocal now.
     
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  14. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I was skeptical, but it sure looks like that's the case
     
  15. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    If the problem wasn't Dame/CJ, it isn't Dame/Ant, and it wasn't the coaching... what is the cause?
     
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  16. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Has your stance on who was/is most responsible for the bad defense changed since a couple years ago?

    I think you've made a strong case we had a system/group 5 years ago that was top 10, but obviously it went downhill from there and despite a large roster change and a coaching change, we're still near the bottom of the league.
     
  17. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    The basketball gods hate me.... duh.
     
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  18. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    My stance has been that the NBA shifted drastically towards 3 pointers since we were last a decent defensive team, and we have never adequately adapted. A while back I went and looked and a shit ton of teams starting jacking up threes at an insane rate about 5 years ago. Started with Houston and Golden State and then just snowballed. Now all teams do it. And we have been absolutely ass at defending the three.
     
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  19. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Some of you get really defensive talking about this.
     
  20. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

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    At least someone is playing defense!
     

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