I dont know about yall, but ive heard alotve people around here and other forums say the NBA isnt a big mans game anymore. That the guards will soon dominate, and its been like that for a while. So today im looking at grizzlies.com, and they are talking about the past #1 overall picks since 1997, here they areraft History - 1st PicksGraham Kendrick The Grizzlies head into next week?s Draft Lottery with the best odds at winning the top overall pick, and are guaranteed to pick no lower than fourth overall. This week, grizzlies.com will take a look at NBA drafts from the past 10 years and examine the recent history of each of the top four picks, counting down from the fourth pick to the first pick. Today we look at the recent history of the first overall draft pick, beginning 10 years ago in 1997. 1997: Tim DuncanDrafted first overall by the San Antonio Spurs Career averages of 21.8 points, 11.9 rebounds, 3.2 assists and 2.4 blocks per game. Nine All-Star Games. Ten selections to the NBA?s All-Defensive Team. Nine selections to the All-NBA First Team. Two regular season MVP Awards. And most importantly, three NBA Championships, and counting (along with three NBA Finals MVP Awards). It?s fair to say Tim Duncan has worked out fairly well for San Antonio. 1998: Michael OlowokandiSelected first overall by the L.A. Clippers Olowokandi hasn?t quite enjoyed the level of success of the previous year?s number one pick. Drafted by the Clippers in the hopes he?d anchor their frontcourt for years to come, Olowokandi never met expectations in his five seasons in L.A. He?s since played for Minnesota and Boston, but has been hampered by injuries, having played 50 games or more in a season just once since the 2001-02 season. He has career averages of 8.3 points and 6.8 rebounds per game. 1999: Elton BrandSelected first overall by the Chicago Bulls Brand had two outstanding seasons with the Bulls before being traded to the Clippers. Five times in his eight-year career, he?s averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds a game in a season, and he?s posted more than two blocks per game in each of the last six years. However, he?s been perennially trapped on bad teams, having made just one career playoff appearance, last year?s trip to the second round with the Clippers. He?s also one of the most underappreciated players in the game- despite career averages of 20.3 points and 10.2 rebounds per game, he has just two All-Star Game appearances. 2000: Kenyon MartinSelected first overall by the New Jersey Nets Martin had four productive seasons in New Jersey, and teamed with Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson to lead the Nets to two consecutive NBA Finals. After posting 16.7 points and 9.5 rebounds in 2003-04, he was acquired by the Denver Nuggets in a sign-and-trade deal prior to the 2004-05 season. However, his tenure in Denver has been marred by injuries, including microfracture surgery on his knee that limited him to two games in 2006-07. He has career averages of 14.8 points and 7.4 rebounds per game. 2001: Kwame BrownSelected first overall by the Washington Wizards Brown was famously taken first overall by Michael Jordan in 2001 when Jordan was running the Wizards. It was a major gamble by Jordan, as it marked the first time a player coming to the league directly from high school was taken first overall. But the gamble backfired, as Brown never became the dominant player Jordan and the Wizards envisioned he?d be. He spent four years in Washington before being acquired by the Lakers prior to the 2005-06 season. He has career averages of 7.7 points and 5.7 rebounds per game. 2002: Yao MingDrafted first overall by the Houston Rockets The 2006-07 season marked Yao?s fifth in the NBA, and each season he?s increased his scoring average, culminating in a career-high 25.0 points per game in 06-07. However, injuries have hampered him in recent years, as he?s missed a combined 59 games over the last two seasons. While smaller, faster teams can exploit Yao defensively (like Utah did in the first round of the playoffs), he is still arguably the most dominant center in the league when healthy. He has career averages of 18.5 points and 8.9 rebounds per game. 2003: LeBron JamesDrafted first overall by the Cleveland Cavaliers Ohio native LeBron James revitalized the franchise when he was taken first overall by the Cavaliers in 2003. There isn?t much he can?t do on the court, as in 2006-07 he finished fourth in the league in scoring (27.3 ppg), 11th in steals (1.6 spg), 15th in assists (6.0 apg) and 32nd in rebounding (6.7 rpg). He?s led the Cavaliers to the second round of the playoffs for the second consecutive season, and Cleveland fans are pinning their title hopes to him. 2004: Dwight HowardDrafted first overall by the Orlando Magic Despite coming into the league straight out of high school, Dwight Howard made his presence felt immediately, holding his own in the paint against players much older than him and averaging 10.0 rebounds per game as a rookie. He?s averaged a double-double all three years he?s been in the league, and finished third in the NBA in rebounding in 2006-07 with 12.3 per game, including 23 against the Grizzlies on Nov. 20. He has career averages of 15.1 points and 11.6 rebounds per game. 2005: Andrew BogutDrafted first overall by the Milwaukee Bucks Bogut?s offensive game improved in his second year, as his points, rebounds and assists all increased from his rookie season (although part of that can be traced to increased minutes). In addition, his solid 53.3% shooting as a rookie also went up, to 55.3% in 2006-07. However, his free throw shooting fell to 57.7%, and even though he averaged 34.2 minutes per game in 06-07, he averaged only 0.5 blocks per game, a number far too low for a starting center. 2006: Andrea BargnaniDrafted first overall by the Toronto Raptors Bargnani got off to a slow start in his rookie season, but by the end of the year he?d improved enough to finish second in the Rookie of the Year balloting. He had his best month in February, when he averaged 14.3 points per game on 50.8% field goal shooting, 48.3% three-point shooting and 82.6% free throw shooting, along with 3.9 rebounds per game before missing several weeks towards the end of the season due to an appendectomy. He was a key player off the bench for the Raptors, and he showed it won?t be long before he?s a fixture in the starting lineup.So that makes 9 outve 10 1st overall picks big men, and the only one who wasnt a big man was LeBorn James, and if not for him, Darko Milicic would probably been taken. Now its almost certain Greg Oden will be taken 1st overall. So for those who think this isnt a big mans game anymore dont realize how valuable big men are. If you listed the NBA Champions for the past 20 yrs, I bet 14 of those championship teams have a really good big man(the 6 who dont had Michael Jordan).
Kind of an odd topic to say it's still a big man's game because of their draft position. Shouldn't it be more on their impact on the court instead. Especially when this list has guys like Brown, Bogut, Olowakandi. Martin, Yao, Brand have not dominated and Yao is really by default. Bargs is too early to gauge, same with Dwight. The only name that has warrant is Tim Duncan. And in the future, probably Dwight Howard.
I think teams are more inclined to draft a big guy because as Frank Layden once said " you can't teach height", and it's almost been a historical garentee that if you have a good bigman you will compete for a title. Other than the Jordan Bulls how many NBA champions haven't had a good bigman? I can't think think of any, so thats why I think teams will go after big men. and it's not like it isn't true in todays NBA, in the last 10 years only the Bulls have won a title without an all-star caliber PF or Center, and really they're the only team to make it to the finals without one(though something could be said for Rodman)
true, but Rodman was just a defender and rebounder...that team had two great..GREAT..players. I was about to say Dr.J won it without a big man...but he had Moses Malone didnt he? Im not too good at old school. I just know the basics.Btw, this wasnt to prove that these big men have all been successful cause they havent, its just to prove that the NBAs mantality of winning hasnt changed...a big man is a must need.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 18 2007, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you listed the NBA Champions for the past 20 yrs, I bet 14 of those championship teams have a really good big man(the 6 who dont had Michael Jordan).</div>How many of the Championship teams of the last 20 years have had a really good guard too?
True, but its easier to find a good guard than a good big man...considering alotve big men make their guards alot better.
There defiently has been a drop-off in big men but the potential domiant and traditional big men in the next couple years. It is just scary. Take a look at this list:Italicized means a not that good of chance becoming good but it is there.Greg OdenYao MingAmare StoudamireAl JeffersonChris BoshDwight HowardJoakim NoahAndris BeidrinsAl ThorntonHasheem ThabeetEmeka OkaforRoy HibbertYi JianalinAndrew BynumRobert SwiftJohan PetroSear Sene
Yeah, I think the big man is coming back now. With the college rule set, we'll see big men get literaly bigger...making them a bit more traditional and better.
partly due to not many dominant big men anymore. But Dwight, Oden, Amare might all become those...who knows though. I agree to some extent that the traditional 7'0, back to basket, dunking, awesome blocking big men is almost died out(that what makes Oden so appealing), but now we have big men who are extremely athletic(can do windmills and stuff) and shoots tons better, and are better ballhandlers. But theres still Emeka who people forget, his offense will come later, but he fits in with that traditional big man.
In the traditional sense, no, outside of possibly Oden there will never be your ordinary dominant big man (if there is such a thing). But with athletic freaks that are very versatile like Amare, Dwight, Tyrus Thomas, Bosh, and the rest, the game is in good hands. With faster pace and long range shooting becoming more common in the league, it is necassary for these guys to have these abilities to be very effective. There are a few exceptions (Duncan), but they are rare and you need a very special team built around them for that to work in today's NBA. With league-wide athleticism higher than ever, and 3pt shooting more popular than ever, it is also quite different than the run and gun '80's. Therefor, with the game itself, the big man has evolved into the likes of Amare, Dwight, etc...
Obviously there will be good big men, as there were guards when big men were really dominant. It's just not as it was before. Not much more has to be said.
I disagree, I think the weight has shifted, that todays guards are better than the old school guards, and their big men are traditionaly better than our big men. People who say the NBA isnt as good as it used to be cant accept change. I really do think the highschool jumpage thing really hindered the NBA. I mean, what if Durant jumped? Maybe 15ppg rookie season? Now, he'll probably go in and get about 20-22ppg in rookie season just from college.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 18 2007, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I disagree, I think the weight has shifted, that todays guards are better than the old school guards, and their big men are traditionaly better than our big men. People who say the NBA isnt as good as it used to be cant accept change. I really do think the highschool jumpage thing really hindered the NBA. I mean, what if Durant jumped? Maybe 15ppg rookie season? Now, he'll probably go in and get about 20-22ppg in rookie season just from college.</div>Kobe, the best player in the NBA, along with LeBron, T-Mac, KG, JO, Amare...the league's top players...all came out of HS. They were doing things at 21-22 that top prospects out of college don't do 'till their 27. There have been cases of the HS bust, but I feel it was not a hindering factor on the NBA.
Kobe Bryant wasted two years in the NBA with 8ppg, Tmac and JO wasted several years on the bench. If they would have went to college, they would have probably been stars in their rookie seasons. Realisticly, since KG came out, the only rookiesoutve highschool who had a real impact were LeBron, Howard and Amare. 3 outve atleast 50. Everybody else wouldnt have missed out on anything if they have went to college...wouldve just made them better.And dont say KG had a impact, 10ppg and 6rpg is really ncie for a rookie, but not a real impact.Imagine Darius Miles, Sebastian Telfair, Shaun Livingston, Kwame Brown...I could go on but you get the point. What if these players went to college...they would be completely different today...probably really good players(not saying Livingston isnt, cause he is, but it took him a good while).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 19 2007, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe Bryant wasted two years in the NBA with 8ppg, Tmac and JO wasted several years on the bench. If they would have went to college, they would have probably been stars in their rookie seasons. Realisticly, since KG came out, the only rookiesoutve highschool who had a real impact were LeBron, Howard and Amare. 3 outve atleast 50. Everybody else wouldnt have missed out on anything if they have went to college...wouldve just made them better.</div>Change of coach or team was the reason these guys bloomed. The coaches or teams they were on for the first few seasons in the league gave them minimal minutes and roles. It is very rare for a rookie, let alone rookies out of HS (which was a brand new thing in the mid '90's) to get LeBron James' minutes and role.Kobe and T-Mac have made such huge impacts, yet both 28 and under. Kobe already is like 30th all time on scoring list at 28 years old and has countless awards and 3 rings (and still just entering prime), while a guy like Nash, who was in same draft class and has similar minutes and role right away as rookie, is like 32-34 and health wise is out of his prime. LeBron is 3 years younger than Wade, and when Wade is 30 and starting the slow decline, LeBron will be entering his prime. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>And dont say KG had a impact, 10ppg and 6rpg is really ncie for a rookie, but not a real impact.</div>By the time KG would have been in his junior year, he had 2 years on NBA experience and was averaging 19/10/4/2/2 and carrying team to playoffs. If you are NBA ready out of HS, then you should jump. KG was NBA ready, and there was no point of maturing with college level talent instead of NBA level talent. This road is definately not for everyone, but there are exceptions who can do this.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Imagine Darius Miles, Sebastian Telfair, Shaun Livingston, Kwame Brown...I could go on but you get the point. What if these players went to college...they would be completely different today...probably really good players(not saying Livingston isnt, cause he is, but it took him a good while).</div>Do you have any idea how many GREAT HS players have went to college, and NBA draft, and still been busts? Entering the league from HS is not for everyone, but considering a LARGE portion of the best players in the league came out of HS which, while the number of HS players drafted increased each year, still largely paled in comparison to college drafted players. And while their draft mates are aged and about out of their prime, these players are just entering it.The NBA players drafted out of HS who have been successful had to mature just like college players, but unlike the majority, had the talent to mature at the highest level of basketball excellence. Not every player drafted out of HS had that kind of mentality and ability, but the ones who did will have a longer NBA life and have done just fine.
When I said impact, I meant rookie impact. Yeah I know how good Tmac and Kobe are...are you nuts lol.The HS players I listed above that skipped to NBA wouldve been awesome in college. I guess you dont realize what college does for a player. You know, theres two reasons that rule was made: education and better players. College wouldve made Tmac and JO instant stars...it doesn't matter if they were good enough or not and their coaches didnt play them, the point is, college is better for the NBA. It developes players mentaly and physicaly. Notice the players that I listed who were successful in rookie season were all physically fit for the NBA. Your physicality has alot to do with being successful in NBA.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 19 2007, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The HS players I listed above that skipped to NBA wouldve been awesome in college. I guess you dont realize what college does for a player. You know, theres two reasons that rule was made: education and better players. College wouldve made Tmac and JO instant stars...it doesn't matter if they were good enough or not and their coaches didnt play them, the point is, college is better for the NBA. It developes players mentaly and physicaly. Notice the players that I listed who were successful in rookie season were all physically fit for the NBA. Your physicality has alot to do with being successful in NBA.</div>Again, I don't think you realize how many players who are AMAZING in HS yet are busts in both college and NBA. I am NOT saying that the players you listed wouldn't have benefited from college, but considering a HUGE portion of our league's stars came out of HS, and the fact that in the past 12 years there have been WAY more college drafted players than HS....the successful jumps from HS outweigh the ones that haven't quite worked out. And there is far from guarantee that any of those players you mentioned would have been so amazing after a year or 2 in college.As I said, if you have the abilty and mentality, it makes no sense whatsoever to mature with college talent instead of NBA talent. Sure, you get more teaching with college and get the March Madness experience, but at the same time the HS players get more years of NBA experience (whether it be with coaches, suggestions from vets, working with team in general against NBA talent, etc...) and they can develop into great NBA players rather than college players (aka Adam Morrison/JJ Redick). If you have the talent and mentality, in my mind, it is just a much smarter decision to jump to the NBA from HS than go to college for a year or 2.PS- As I said, the minutes and limited roles of HS drafted players are a much bigger reason for lack of productivity than anything else. If you dominate college, you will get way more minutes as a rookie than a HS drafted player (with rare exceptions), even if they have same talent level and body.
Yeah theres busts in college, but most of the time when a player that the magnitude of Darius Miles, Kwame Brown etc. are thought to be good enough for NBA, they are defiently though to be good enough for college...and its rare a high prospect is a "bust".
