yup...if he doesnt win it, i really think its an injustice. with only 4 pacer games left, against toronto, jersey, philly and chicago, they'll likely win at LEAST 3, and finnish with the best record in the L. although KG has had a phenomenal season...the pacers have a better record, and dont have even close to the surrounding cast KG has in mini. i mean they start jeff foster, and lets face it, hes pretty much a 2nd string player, whos been doing an ok job starting jermaine has led his team...a weaker team then they had last year, to the best record in the nba.
O'neal will be in the running, but I hardly would consider it an injustice if he didn't win it. In fact, I don't expect him to finish higher than 3rd in the voting. <u>BTW: </u> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and dont have even close to the surrounding cast KG has in mini. they start jeff foster, and lets face it, hes a 2nd string player</div>. I think you might wanna brush up on who's on the Pacers roster. The supporting cast starts with Ron Artest, Jamal Tinsley, Jonathan Bender(yes, he's injured right now, but has been available most fo the season), Al Harrington, Reggie Miller and Fred Jones..... Sure, they aren't Sam Cassell and Spreewell, but they certainly aren't slouches either. The cast in Indy has been together for a while and they play extremely well together. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">jermaine has led his team...a weaker team then they had last year, to the best record in the nba.</div> That's actually going to hurt him in some regards, because voters are going to understand that his schedule is weighted primarily against the largely woeful East. With the West being the Conference almost everyone is looking to for a Champion, O'Neal is going to be hurt by playing in the East.
I agree with Hagrid, I see Jermaine finishing 3rd or 4th in the MVP race behind KG, Duncan, and Peja. KG is my pick for MVP because he's putting up amazing numbers despite the additions of Cassell and Sprewell. He's played every game and has the TWolves fighting for the number 1 seed in the West. He also leads the league in double doubles with 68, O'neal only has 42. Stat vs. Stat Edge PPG - Edge KG RPG - Edge KG APG - Edge KG STL - Edge KG BLK - Edge JO The Pacers have a better record, but I don't think the 3 win difference is nearly enough for Jermaine to be voted ahead of Kevin Garnett.
I'm glad that someone else has seen that Jermaine O'Neal has some standing in the race. I think that if the Wolves keep the Midwest crown, KG will get it, but if they don't O'Neal will be handed the trophy, and deservedly so. They should make Conference MVP's so awesome players aren't slighted.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think you might wanna brush up on who's on the Pacers roster. The supporting cast starts with Ron Artest, Jamal Tinsley, Jonathan Bender(yes, he's injured right now, but has been available most fo the season), Al Harrington, Reggie Miller and Fred Jones.....</div> no...i know exactly whos on the pacers roster...and they have a weaker bench and a weaker starting line up then mini. your right, that playing in the east is going to come into it, but it shouldnt. the pacers record against western teams is really good <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with Hagrid, I see Jermaine finishing 3rd or 4th in the MVP race behind KG, Duncan, and Peja. KG is my pick for MVP because he's putting up amazing numbers despite the additions of Cassell and Sprewell. He's played every game and has the TWolves fighting for the number 1 seed in the West. He also leads the league in double doubles with 68, O'neal only has 42. Stat vs. Stat Edge PPG - Edge KG RPG - Edge KG APG - Edge KG STL - Edge KG BLK - Edge JO The Pacers have a better record, but I don't think the 3 win difference is nearly enough for Jermaine to be voted ahead of Kevin Garnett.</div> hmmm...good points actually. cept like i said...i know kg is putting up better numbers...i was just looking at the team comparison more then the numbers. still dont think he should finnish 3rd or even 4th
Jermaine is clearly the best player in the East this season, and he will get a top four finish guaranteed. However, unfortunately for him, the biggest candidates all play in the West. Peronally, I think he'll finish second behind KG, and ahead of Timmy, Kobe and Peja.
I like Jermaine, but due to KG's numbers, and O'Neal being on an Eastern team, if he DOES get it I'll concider *that* an injustice. I'll add another stat which is really just an NBA.com stat, but in Efficiency KG just dominates the league... my MVP votes : 1st : Kevin Garnett 2nd : Tim Duncan 3rd : Predrag Stojakovic 4th : Jermaine O'Neal 5th : Shaq I'd like to add Nowitzki but due to the style of ball Dallas plays, his numbers are inflated, and add to that his team is full of All-Stars yet they won't have home court for the playoffs.
JO will be in the top 3, behind Duncan, and the winner KG. JO doesnt have to face the WC powerhouses every night like KG and Duncan. THe Pacers would not win without JO, but Duncan and Garnett are more valuable for their teams IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">Jermaine is clearly the best player in the East this season, and he will get a top four finish guaranteed. However, unfortunately for him, the biggest candidates all play in the West. Peronally, I think he'll finish second behind KG, and ahead of Timmy, Kobe and Peja.</div> I'm not disagreeing with, I just wanna know why Kobe would be up there, I haven't watched him play much this season.
Kobe has been playing great the 2nd half of this season. With the exception of these last 2 games, Kobe has been playing like an MVP. But bottom line is that KG will win and JO will be third in votes like everybody else has been saying.
ugh...i just dont think that jermaine should finnish 3rd. regardless of conference, when you have a team like the kings or the lakers, your going to have a record thats at the top of the league. the kings would still be a good team without peja. without jermaine the pacers would prolly still be in the playoffs in the east, but thats not saying much. they'd prolly be one of the sub .500 teams
i don't tihnk kobe should even be considered....he only played great in the 2nd half ....or less ...if your thinking it that way...then put baron davis in as well
JO's numbers this year are hardly any better than last year. Difference is this year the Pacers didn't collapse.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ANiMuS:</div><div class="quote_post"> JO's numbers this year are hardly any better than last year. </div> They aren't any better at all. But this isn't the MIP Award, this is the MVP Award. TD's numbers in his second MVP season weren't also any better than in his first MVP season. So this shouldn't be a point. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">ugh...i just dont think that jermaine should finnish 3rd. regardless of conference, when you have a team like the kings or the lakers, your going to have a record thats at the top of the league. the kings would still be a good team without peja. without jermaine the pacers would prolly still be in the playoffs in the east, but thats not saying much. they'd prolly be one of the sub .500 teams</div> Firstly, you should regard the conference because look at it, the 6th seeded team in the East is a sub .500 team as you call it and in the West no team that is making the playoffs is worse than .500. Even Seattle, the third worst team in the West, has a .500 record against East-Teams. Secondly, KG's numbers are just better. You're point that JO has a worse team around him than every other MVP candidate, is okay but than I wonder why JO's numbers are still worse than KG's. They should be far better. Thirdly, you mention that without JO the Pacers would be a sub .500 team but the Lakers and Kings are still a good team without their MVP candidates. I partly agree, JO missed 4 games (I don't know which teams they played) and the Pacers won all of them. And what about the Wolves? Without KG, the Wolves wouldn't be near where they are now. KG does far more for the team than just putting up those numbers. The bottom line is, KG is in my opinion this years MVP, even if he doesn't get it.
This is the mvp award right? It stands for most valuable player. So this means how much one player is meant for a team. You have to ask yourself where will that team be without that one player. See even without kg, they are still a playoff contending team becasue they have sam cassell and latrell sprewell, and the same goes for jermaine. i think the MVP AWARD should go to neither of them. It should go to Tracy Mcgrady. I know you will argue this being that they are the worst team in the league. But hey, without Tmac the team wouldnt have won a single game (well maybe 1 or 2 if theyre lucky). Tmac is basically the whole team. I think he deserves the MVP regardless of the team record.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting timduncan021:</div><div class="quote_post"> This is the mvp award right? It stands for most valuable player. So this means how much one player is meant for a team. You have to ask yourself where will that team be without that one player. See even without kg, they are still a playoff contending team becasue they have sam cassell and latrell sprewell, and the same goes for jermaine. i think the MVP AWARD should go to neither of them. It should go to Tracy Mcgrady. I know you will argue this being that they are the worst team in the league. But hey, without Tmac the team wouldnt have won a single game (well maybe 1 or 2 if theyre lucky). Tmac is basically the whole team. I think he deserves the MVP regardless of the team record.</div> You may be right with T-Mac and Orlando, but T-Mac opened his mouth way too much in the media and imho this disqualifies him as an MVP candidate. For KG, he is the heart and soul of his team. He is the reason why the Wolves are where they are. Yes, without him they could still be a playoff contender (but I doubt that they would be better than .500 so) but right now they are one of the top teams out there.
Tracy a MVP this season? Do I dare entertain such a ridicilous statement? First of all you can speculate they would only win 1 or 2 games, but we all know professional players will at least put together a double digit win season (even if its only 10). Tracy's name should even be in this thread. The numbers between Garnett and Jermaine arnt just Garnett being better, but much better... .60 better shooting %, 4 more points and rebounds, and 3 additional asists. Now it was brought up that Jermaine's supporting cast is weaker, then the numbers should be flipped. Also you have to consider the conference, not matter how fair you want to be. Jermaine has to play the Lakers, Kings, Mavericks, Spurs, Grizz 2 times less than the Wolves each season. The only viable opponet the Pacers face in the East is the Pistons (who recently crushed the Pacers if I am not mistaken). [ Btw I also read that the Pacers are winless on the road against the Western Powerhouses and a losing record]. Fact is Garnett has everything in his favor but a few less wins for the total season. Garnett is your MVP. Point blank.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coranor:</div><div class="quote_post">They aren't any better at all. But this isn't the MIP Award, this is the MVP Award. TD's numbers in his second MVP season weren't also any better than in his first MVP season. So this shouldn't be a point.</div> Why isn't it a point? Did Jermaine's numbers last year, which you concur weren't any better than this year, make him an MVP candidate in '03?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting timduncan021:</div><div class="quote_post">This is the mvp award right? It stands for most valuable player. So this means how much one player is meant for a team. You have to ask yourself where will that team be without that one player. See even without kg, they are still a playoff contending team becasue they have sam cassell and latrell sprewell, and the same goes for jermaine. i think the MVP AWARD should go to neither of them. It should go to Tracy Mcgrady. I know you will argue this being that they are the worst team in the league. But hey, without Tmac the team wouldnt have won a single game (well maybe 1 or 2 if theyre lucky). Tmac is basically the whole team. I think he deserves the MVP regardless of the team record.</div> 1 or 2 games. That's right, they're horrible. That was pretty entertaining though, I literally laughed out loud. I would be so fustrated and say alot of things too if my team was that bad. Anyways, JO will finish third and just hope KG wins. It wouldn't be bad if JO won, he deserves it as well. Minnesota got off to that .500 start and if they could've jelled earlier they would probaly already have 60 wins and KG could be undisputed MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coranor:</div><div class="quote_post">You may be right with T-Mac and Orlando, but T-Mac opened his mouth way too much in the media and imho this disqualifies him as an MVP candidate. For KG, he is the heart and soul of his team. He is the reason why the Wolves are where they are. Yes, without him they could still be a playoff contender (but I doubt that they would be better than .500 so) but right now they are one of the top teams out there.</div> Maybe you could have made that case for him last year to win the MVP, but if a guy misses as many games as he has this season and his team only wins 20 games, you shouldn't even be mentioned about the award. Most superstars in this league can still win atleast 20 games even with a horrible team. If all you had to do was win a few games on teams with not much talent, KG would have been MVP the last 3 years.
