Notice Joe Cronin New GM

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by THE HCP, May 10, 2022.

  1. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    Lol Warriors got Bogut back who was the #1 overall pick on a huge (max?) contract, a key starter for title winning teams. Plus they had a core of Steph/Klay/Draymond/Barnes.

    Warriors also brought in Andre Iguoadala on a huge contract. They are in a huge market where they can sign Livingston, Jarrett Jack, etc players for the minimum.

    Blazer fans think Cronin is using addition by subtraction to build a 73 win warriors team up in Portland?

    The rose colored glasses homer fans here are unbelievable.
     
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  2. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    Bogut was not a bust, he was resigned after his rookie deal to a huge contract. He was a quality starting center at the least if not more.
     
  3. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    Ya, I mean, he wasn't exactly a #1 pick but he was all nba third team one year and an all nba defensive 2nd team award winner. He was useful. Hart is useful too. But, we will see if he ends up ever making an all nba team or all nba defensive team.

    Even if he did, our talent level isn't anywhere near what Golden States was. And like you said, they are more likely to get free agents than we ever will.
     
  4. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Nobody suggested there is only 1 way for this to be successful. But history tells us it's a lot easier to win by keeping your all stars than trading them.

    The best way to never win a championship is to offload your all stars. You need 2 or 3 to win a title. And it's far easier to keep an all star than get a new one.
     
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  5. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    When asked to provide an example, I did so with a link showing it was perceived as a poor trade for Golden State at the time. But it balanced the roster better.

    That is an example of addition by subtraction.
     
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  6. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Bogut was coming of a 12 games season when he was traded to GSW. He had a 33 games season a couple of years before that - and his first year in GSW he played only 32 games. If that's not a definition of a broken player at the 8th year of their NBA career - I am not sure what is. His average PER at the time (even if we ignore the frequent injuries) was 16. That's a tiny bit above average player in the NBA and especially bad for a center. His best career PER was 20.7 3 years earlier than that trade and that was the only year in his career he cracked 20. Just for a reference, Nurkic which is far from the greatest center in the league had 5 years with a PER > 20 in 8 years. No disrespect, but Bogut at year 8 with all his injuries and Hart at year 5 is equal value.

    There was no obvious idea that the talent GSW had at the time was / is more than what Portland has at the moment. Steph was a 21 PER player the year before, Klay was a 16 PER player the year before and Draymond was a rookie. Again, I am not saying it is obvious that the moves for addition by subtraction would work for Portland, but I absolutely reject the idea that it can never happen (as we have shown with GSW) or that it is was obvious at the time GSW had a lot more talent than Portland has now - it certainly was not at the time - and maybe what we have seen from Simons when he was given free reign is really what we can expect from him going forward at a very young age.

    Only time will tell and I, for one, am excited to see if this experiment works or not.
     
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  7. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    The best way to get an all star as a small market is through the draft.

    That's how we got Roy, Aldridge, Dame, Clyde etc.

    Timelines matter though. @THE HCP has routinely said Dame does not want us to use the pick. He wants to win now.
     
  8. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    If you are gonna use my "addition by subtraction" than use it correctly.
    I never said Portland is gonna build a "73 win Warrior team up in Portland".
    Quit exaggerating the facts to make your point. That's twice today.
     
  9. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Right. We got one in the draft. Getting rid of it isn't likely to be helpful.

    I want to win now as well. We'll get a good player for the pick if we trade it, no doubt. And if it doesn't work out, trading that player and Dame for youth and picks will kickstart a rebuild nicely. Everything else would be pretty much the same. We need long 2 way players everywhere else.

    This is not a big deal. A year or two isn't going to make a difference. If we get a year or two better than Dame/CJ but still don't quite win a championship that will still be fun. If we miss the playoffs next season Dame and whoever we potentially traded the pick for will be traded for great rebuild assets. Probably just in time for a sale... Or maybe right after the sale.

    But it will not be the same old "barely make the playoffs and get blasted" deal.
     
  10. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    I hate it when people do that.
     
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  11. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    "A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person's argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making."
     
  12. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    I will be pleasantly surprised if we get a year or two of making it to the WCF. I don't see it happening unless we trade for a star to put next to Dame. And even then, a lot of luck would need to go our way.

    I'd like to build towards a contender. I just don't see that happening next year, and I don't see us building towards that next offseason either. I'd love to be proven wrong.
     
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  13. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    2 out of 3 times getting to the 2nd round would be better than we did with CJ...

    I don't think it's likely that anything great is going to happen with current ownership. And we'll be starting from scratch after the team sells. Starting a rebuild right now makes no sense...

    Our only hope otherwise is that Cronin is an understated genius and Billups is a far better coach than he's shown thus far.

    But, fan is short for fanatic, so here's hoping for best.
     
  14. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    Here is what will be fun for me this off-season.

    This, from the words of our own GM, isn’t a one year fix, so we will see quickly how they attack the future.

    I also think the trade deadline next year will say a lot about the future
     
  15. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    Yeah...
    I'm gettin' sick of it too.
    I don't mind opposing views, that's what it's all about, but when folks start fabricating, than there is no use of continuing.
    This Joe C topic is a "hot" one with me, so I am ready for a debate, 'cos I know I'm in the minority.
    Sadly so.
     
  16. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    He isn't going anywhere. He will get at least a year or two to figure this out. As it should be.
     

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