<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Take it from a lifelong Knicks fan: This edition is the sorriest ever. And the reason is Larry Brown. The last Knicks championship was 33 years ago ... 33 -- that was the number of Patrick Ewing's jersey and Cazzie Russell's jersey. That was six presidents ago. In the spring of 1973, the World Trade Center officially opened. The Watergate hearings had just begun. It has been a long time between sips of champagne. This year has made it seem intolerably longer. Before his hiring, Brown was anointed as the Socrates of the sidelines, capable of divining the inner mysteries of 12-man harmony. He said coaching the Knicks was his "dream job" and that former Knicks coach Red Holzman was once his "hero." No rational person expected the 2006 Knicks to play at the divine level of Holzman's 1970 and 1973 championship teams. After all, six Hall of Famers emerged from those two squads. </div> Full Article
Thank you. I've said this from a while ago. No way this team is being coached properly. The ignorant will blame it all on Isiah and neglect Brown's NBA record worth of starting lineups. Or how he kills chemistry when he trashes the team in the media. What about how he never goes with what's working? David Lee > Malik Rose + Mo' Taylor. Lee gets less minutes than both of them. We sucked on defense, but he kept Ariza on the bench. He was our best defender, by the way. Whenever we make runs with the players in the game, he, for some unknown reason takes them out. Also, have you noticed when he takes Marbury out the game that's when we usually start losing by double digits? I honestly think Brown is trying to get Isiah fired so he can take over as GM instead of coach. This game really should have won at least 33 games this season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I honestly think Brown is trying to get Isiah fired so he can take over as GM instead of coach. </div> That would be a great move for the Knicks.
Selected Portions I thought were good points: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Brown has employed 39 different starting lineups. No one, not even his own players, can divine his kaleidoscopic pattern of lineups and substitutions. If you can figure it out, please get in touch with me for your next assignment: to explain the sound of one-handed clapping. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, he has dogged Stephon Marbury, his best player, running him down in the press on a regular basis. The Marbury slamming started at the 2004 Olympics in Athens and continued last August -- just a month after Brown was hired -- when he asserted that Allan Houston was New York's "best player" last year. Oh, really? The same Allan Houston who missed 62 games and averaged 11 points last year was better than Marbury, who played every game and posted 21 points and eight assists a night? Explain that one. Moreover, explain why you would say that aloud. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Larry Brown has attained cult status as a thinking man's coach. He coached the 2004 Pistons to a title. He has made many teams better than he found them. The other side of bettering them is leaving them: He has coached nine ABA and NBA teams in 22 years. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But his handling of Marbury and the rest of the Knicks demonstrates his willingness to scapegoat his players. It seems that Brown believes he is responsible when his teams win, but not when they lose. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's not on me. It's on Marbury, the guy who leads the team in minutes, scoring, assists and steals -- one of two players in NBA history to average 20 points and eight assists for his career. (Oscar Robertson is the other.) When teams play worse, it's not Brown's fault. He had very similar critiques of the Pistons when he coached in Detroit. For instance: "We have to play a lot harder, we have to be a lot more aggressive, we have to share the ball better, rebound the ball better. I think those are things that you talk about every game, though. I say this over and over again. I write on the board before every game, play hard, play unselfishly, play smart, try to defend and have fun." According to Brown, he wins games but doesn't lose them. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">To reinforce his points, Brown criticizes his players relentlessly, both publicly and privately. "Never in all my years have I seen a coach run down his best player in the press like Brown," one veteran NBA writer said. "I covered him for six years in Philadelphia and he did it all the time," said another, unsurprised at his antics this year. To get some perspective on the Knicks' disastrous season and Brown's handling of his team, I talked to the player I consider the greatest Knick of all, Walt Frazier, a longtime color commentator for Knicks games. What does Frazier think about Brown's tactic of playing canary to the media? Did Red Holzman settle scores in print? "Red would get in your face," Frazier said, laughing. "But not in the press." Bob McAdoo, now a Miami assistant coach, played for Jack Ramsay on the Buffalo Braves during 1973-76 and for Riley with two Laker title teams in 1982 and 1985. Did either of those coaches upbraid players in the press? "Oh no," McAdoo replied. "Everything was in-house, behind closed doors. The fans never knew the inner workings of the team." Why did those coaches hold their fire in the media? "What good could come out of that?" McAdoo added. "Why attack your top players? They are prideful and they're not going to take an attack from anyone." "Stephon is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't [according to Brown]," said Frazier. "If he scores, he's selfish. If he doesn't, he's not playing up to his potential. "They have to get along," Frazier said. "Marbury wants to win. He came up to me on the plane and pointed to my [1973 championship] ring and said, 'I want what you have.' Besides, the guy has skills; he can get to the basket against anyone." </div>
^People usually forget about this part and blame Isiah for it. Brown has coached this team terribly. Anyone disagree?
The Knicks sucked before Larry Brown got here. You can make the case that Larry Brown has done lousy job and I'll listen. But to even suggest that the Knicks would have a significantly better record is just plain dumb. This team cant win and shouldnt win. You cannot assemble a group of players who have never won anything, never played defense, always been known as selfish and then blame the coach when the players dont play defense, dont pass the ball and dont win. I am sorry it just doesnt make any sense. People complain about the constant rotations which is blown way out of proportion. The two most important positions were kept the same for the entire season(point guard and center). Antonio Davis was the mainstay at powerforward until he got traded. The other positons got messed around with alot but considering noone was good enough to take the starting job says alot about the roster. The difference that having the same starting line up for the entire season would have made is negligible. Maybe three or four wins and certainly no more than six. The defense didnt suck because Larry Brown messed around with the wing positons too much. It sucked because Isiah Thomas brought in guys who have never played defense. What good coach doesnt call out their players in the media? Scott Skiles does the same thing. The same with Jeff Van Gundy and Phil Jackson. I believe Doc Rivers does too as does Sam Mitchell and I wouldnt be surprised Nate McMillan did the same as well. When guys arent doing what their supposed to do you're supposed to call them out. By the way Larry Brown has been calling out players in the media for his entire career and it's worked. So I say more power to him. If the players cant handle it I say we punch their tickets out of town and send them on their way. People who blame Larry Brown for this disaster of a season just cant accept the fact that this team is bad and will continue to be bad no matter what. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks sucked before Larry Brown got here. You can make the case that Larry Brown has done lousy job and I'll listen. But to even suggest that the Knicks would have a significantly better record is just plain dumb. This team cant win and shouldnt win. You cannot assemble a group of players who have never won anything, never played defense, always been known as selfish and then blame the coach when the players dont play defense, dont pass the ball and dont win. I am sorry it just doesnt make any sense. People complain about the constant rotations which is blown way out of proportion. The two most important positions were kept the same for the entire season(point guard and center). Antonio Davis was the mainstay at powerforward until he got traded. The other positons got messed around with alot but considering noone was good enough to take the starting job says alot about the roster. The difference that having the same starting line up for the entire season would have made is negligible. Maybe three or four wins and certainly no more than six. The defense didnt suck because Larry Brown messed around with the wing positons too much. It sucked because Isiah Thomas brought in guys who have never played defense. What good coach doesnt call out their players in the media? Scott Skiles does the same thing. The same with Jeff Van Gundy and Phil Jackson. I believe Doc Rivers does too as does Sam Mitchell and I wouldnt be surprised Nate McMillan did the same as well. When guys arent doing what their supposed to do you're supposed to call them out. By the way Larry Brown has been calling out players in the media for his entire career and it's worked. So I say more power to him. If the players cant handle it I say we punch their tickets out of town and send them on their way. People who blame Larry Brown for this disaster of a season just cant accept the fact that this team is bad and will continue to be bad no matter what. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div> Spoken like a true prophet. To say they will be bad for ever is wrong. Isiah has made some bad and stupid moves, and NY overprices their players. LB wants Marbury to change and Marbury doesn't want any of it. Look at each team he has coached. Bad to good. Players like AI and Billups when coached by him were even downgraded by LB but you know it worked. I hope the trade rumor is true and Marbury goes to Minny, we already have 2 star PG's both worth 10 mil a pop.
Of course Brown's hasn't done the best job coaching this team. But its ridiculous to put blame on him, mainly because Isiah is such a bigger problem. Its like getting mad about a broken nail, when you're dying of cancer. A bad analogy, but I think you know what I mean. Nobody else's performance with the Knicks can be judged properly until Isiah is fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks sucked before Larry Brown got here. You can make the case that Larry Brown has done lousy job and I'll listen. But to even suggest that the Knicks would have a significantly better record is just plain dumb. This team cant win and shouldnt win. You cannot assemble a group of players who have never won anything, never played defense, always been known as selfish and then blame the coach when the players dont play defense, dont pass the ball and dont win. I am sorry it just doesnt make any sense.</div> The way I see it, the Knicks should have won at least 33 games this year. Our team is much better and despite not having any winners, or good defenders, we really shouldn't be this bad. Period. The "selfish" thing is really overrated. The only case you can make an argument for being selfish is Francis and maybe Nate Robinson. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">People complain about the constant rotations which is blown way out of proportion. The two most important positions were kept the same for the entire season(point guard and center). Antonio Davis was the mainstay at powerforward until he got traded. The other positons got messed around with alot but considering noone was good enough to take the starting job says alot about the roster. The difference that having the same starting line up for the entire season would have made is negligible. Maybe three or four wins and certainly no more than six. The defense didnt suck because Larry Brown messed around with the wing positons too much. It sucked because Isiah Thomas brought in guys who have never played defense. </div> Well, Marbury is on pace to miss a total of 22 games this season, so our point guard position wasn't really consistent. So, are you really trying to say Brown?s record setting starting lineups haven?t had a big effect on our consistency? Point guard and center were consistent for us, but the other positions are important. You have Marbury and Curry adjusting to 42 different players every game and you really expect consistency? No one was good enough to make the starting job? What about David Lee? He, even as a rookie, is better than Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor. Why doesn?t he get their minutes? He?s also good enough to be a consistent starter. Qyntel Woods has played well for us and better than Quentin Richardson, but Brown hasn?t given him consistent minutes. Jalen Rose, when healthy, has given us a nice offensive lift but Brown plays him inconsistently. Brown says Crawford has been the ?most improved? Knick and there was a time when he got infrequent minutes. Frye used to average something like 16 points and 6 rebounds, but Brown started playing him less and more of Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor. There is absolutely no excuse for setting an NBA record with 42 different starting lineups, especially when your reasoning behind it is because someone is in his hometown. What about how Brown never does what?s working? There have been countless games when the Knicks are actually ?in it? but get out of it because Brown inserts guys like Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor and the Knicks quickly get ?out of it?. I remember some games when he took out Marbury and the Knicks quickly went down by double digits. What about that Golden State game which still is as clear as day to me. Trevor Ariza played defense and played hard every game but was always on the bench. David Lee had a long list of DNP?s and still should get more time. There isn?t an excuse for defense, but I do think the Knicks should be winning with their offense. The team is built to run. With the few exceptions of Jerome James, Jackie Butler, and Curry, everyone is capable of running the floor, but Brown discourages them from running, which might be our biggest strength. He?s also changing players into what they?re not. Marbury will never be an Eric Snow, but he has him playing that way making him much less effective. Brown doesn?t have him attacking the basket and breaking down defenses, his biggest strength. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What good coach doesnt call out their players in the media? Scott Skiles does the same thing. The same with Jeff Van Gundy and Phil Jackson. I believe Doc Rivers does too as does Sam Mitchell and I wouldnt be surprised Nate McMillan did the same as well. When guys arent doing what their supposed to do you're supposed to call them out. By the way Larry Brown has been calling out players in the media for his entire career and it's worked. So I say more power to him. If the players cant handle it I say we punch their tickets out of town and send them on their way. People who blame Larry Brown for this disaster of a season just cant accept the fact that this team is bad and will continue to be bad no matter what.</div> I haven?t heard a coach call their players delusional before and claiming their colleges aren?t good enough educational institutions for them. That whole thing he had with Marbury proves it even more. Marbury is a 29-year-old player considered to be egotistical and immature to some. Brown is a 65-year-old coach. You tell me who should be the bigger man. I mean really, at his age he just needs to show more maturity. As if the losing wasn?t bad enough, Brown?s lack of maturity makes us even more of a laughing stock. Just ask Paul Pierce. I know Marbury was going at it too, but as the coach, it?s your job to squash the problems?not increase it. I?m not suggesting the Knicks would be a playoff team without Brown nor am I suggesting would be a good team, however, Brown is responsible for this team?s lack of success by his own admission.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post"> What about how Brown never does what?s working? There have been countless games when the Knicks are actually ?in it? but get out of it because Brown inserts guys like Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor and the Knicks quickly get ?out of it?. I remember some games when he took out Marbury and the Knicks quickly went down by double digits. What about that Golden State game which still is as clear as day to me. Trevor Ariza played defense and played hard every game but was always on the bench. David Lee had a long list of DNP?s and still should get more time. </div> He takes them out for breathers. Its called fatigue that I don't blame him for. If anyone is to be blamed its the subs for not doing their part. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I haven?t heard a coach call their players delusional before and claiming their colleges aren?t good enough educational institutions for them. That whole thing he had with Marbury proves it even more. Marbury is a 29-year-old player considered to be egotistical and immature to some. Brown is a 65-year-old coach. You tell me who should be the bigger man. I mean really, at his age he just needs to show more maturity. As if the losing wasn?t bad enough, Brown?s lack of maturity makes us even more of a laughing stock. Just ask Paul Pierce. I know Marbury was going at it too, but as the coach, it?s your job to squash the problems?not increase it. I?m not suggesting the Knicks would be a playoff team without Brown nor am I suggesting would be a good team, however, Brown is responsible for this team?s lack of success by his own admission.</div> Phil Jackson, and all those other coaches do this all the time. This isn't a big deal to me, everyone recieves gripe from someone else deal with it. The Knicks failure is in no way LB's fault. The most a coach can do is say schemes and plays he can't go out and run them. The Knicks the team should be faulted. What about the team yesteryear? Was it that coaches fault? Or 2 years ago? Their fault too? No its THE TEAM. Sure LB can say do this play but as a player you see if you think the play will work and if not change it up. Its done all the time. Larry Brown should in no way, shape, or form be faulted for this.
I don't think MrJ is saying everything Browns fault, but he is a pretty big part of the problem. Nobody can sit here and honestly tell me Larry Brown has done a good job of coaching this team. The Knicks would be nowhere near the playoffs, even if Brown was doing a good job, but no way this team should be the worst in the league. That is partly Browns fault.
Larry Brown is a horrible coach for a young players or a team with star power both of which is employed by the Knicks. Larry Brown has been known for playing less productive vertrans over more productive rookies. Larry Brown is no the coach for the knicks and he isn't the right coach for most teams in the nba. Larry Brown is only good as a coach when he has five solid role players on the court instead of stars. If he has stars on the court his way of coaching only screws them up aka Stephon Marbury Steve Franchise Quientien Richardson and sometimes Curry
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think MrJ is saying everything Browns fault, but he is a pretty big part of the problem. Nobody can sit here and honestly tell me Larry Brown has done a good job of coaching this team. The Knicks would be nowhere near the playoffs, even if Brown was doing a good job, but no way this team should be the worst in the league. That is partly Browns fault.</div> Thank you.
Its partly everyones fault. Don't only blame the coach and then be like OMG w/o him we woulda been godly Its partly the teams fault, its partly Isiahs fault, and partly Browns fault. To only blame brown is being ignorant.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">Its partly everyones fault. Don't only blame the coach and then be like OMG w/o him we woulda been godly Its partly the teams fault, its partly Isiahs fault, and partly Browns fault. To only blame brown is being ignorant.</div> "I don't think MrJ is saying everything Browns fault, but he is a pretty big part of the problem. Nobody can sit here and honestly tell me Larry Brown has done a good job of coaching this team. The Knicks would be nowhere near the playoffs, even if Brown was doing a good job, but no way this team should be the worst in the league. That is partly Browns fault."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">"I don't think MrJ is saying everything Browns fault, but he is a pretty big part of the problem. Nobody can sit here and honestly tell me Larry Brown has done a good job of coaching this team. The Knicks would be nowhere near the playoffs, even if Brown was doing a good job, but no way this team should be the worst in the league. That is partly Browns fault."</div> Wasn't directing that statement at you MrJ
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">Wasn't directing that statement at you MrJ</div> Ok, nevermind then.
