Lebron vs. Wade

As Nitro thinks, he says Wade is better than Lebron. I say no such thing. Lebron is just on another level than Wade. Hes younger, had no college experience, and developed into a franchise player faster than Wade did. Lebron also showcased his talent this year in the Finals as a go to guy and clutch player. Sure Nitro will tell you 'Well Wade averaged 40 in the last 4 games of the finals' but its just so much easier to score when your coming off a Shaq screen than it is to come off a Gooden/Zo/Hughes screen. Shaq just makes things that much more different. Id like to see Shaq and Zo switch places, Cleveland will be up there with the greatest. Now I would like to compare them as playersassing: About equal, but if you give an edge, give it to Wade. Hes just a better point gaurd even if thats Lebron's favourite positiong.Shooting: Lebron, by far too, Wade has a good mid range shot, but I doubt he could shoot fadeaway threes as we saw Lebron.Rebounding: Lebron as well, just bigger and stronger.Defensively: Equal, but you can give Wade the edge, I just think hes a better perimeter defender.Free Throws: Aside from D-Whistle going to the line more than the bathroom, yeah hes better.Leadership ability: Lebron no question, hes worth so much to this Cleveland organization.Athletisim: Lebron, Lebron, Lebron.Overall Scoring: Wade is by far the better penetrater but his shot puts him at a disadvantage, its equal, but I could give Wade the edge as well for his interior offensive play.Who would you start a team with: Is this a question? Lebron. Hes proven it so many times, and hasnt fallen off his game this year like Wade, (even though he had an injury, the games he played, 42% Fg's, 68% Ft's, not good)Thats 5-4 Lebron.

 

I think it's Lebron easily. There really isn't anything that Wade does much better than Lebron.

 

You were all correct until you said Wade passes the ball better then Lebron. I actually laughed at it. Wade is good but not like Lebron.

 

[quote name='RaptorFan#1' post='372399' date='Jun 3 2007, 10:20 PM']Hes younger, had no college experience, and developed into a franchise player faster than Wade did.[/quote]All that means absolutely nothing (and the last part really isn't true).

LeBron has also showed that he is a guy that is indecisive in the clutch and can't hit his FT's. He has the ability to take over in crunch time, but I still question his decision making down the stretch.Shaq rarely even plays in the last few minute sof the game, usually because of the fact that the other team plays hack-a-Shaq. Also the Heat had a much tougher road to the Finals last year than the Cavs do this year. Wade has taken over the end of games since college, and has done it both with and without Shaq. Only Wade and Kobe are players that will outscore the whole opposing team in the 4th on a yearly basis (hell, Wade did it to the Cavs and Spurs within 2 weeks of each other in February). LeBron doesn't have a very impressive track record at the end of games.

Agreed here.

LeBron shoots about 32% from 3, so it's not like he is an impressive 3pt shooter and it ends up hurting his average. Last time I checked (near the end of the season) Wade shoots 39% from midrange while Bron shoots 34%. Considering I personally agree that in a general sense LeBron has a better jumpshot, Wade is much smarter in using it thus making him more effective.And shooting is only one aspect of scoring. Wade drives in the lane and looks for contact moreso than LeBron, and IMO is just better at using his strengths to their fullest. If LeBron was a great streak scorer like Kobe or T-Mac then my opinion would be different...but he isn't.

Yep.

Not even close, Wade is the better defender. Man to man both are average, but Wade is one of the best help defenders in the league. Averaging about 1.4BPG for a 6'4'' PG/SG is amazing.

 

Mmhmmm.

And Wade isn't to the Heat??? He brought his college team to the Final 4, led Heat to 2nd round in his rookie season (including 2 GW's in playoffs), led a Shaq-less team through the Washington series in his sophmore season, then last year exploded in the Finals when no one else was doing sh*t.Personally I'd probably give the edge to LeBron as he is the more vocal of the 2, but Wade is the better oncourt leader and guy you can ride to a win.

Bron is more vertically athletic while Wade is quicker and better laterally. If you want to give Bron the edge fine, but they play different positions and where each is athletically strong really helps that cause.

For ONE year, give me Wade. I feel he is the more polished, experienced and overall better player that I feel is better equipped to win in the playoffs. For the future, after that 1 year, of course it is LeBron. He has more upside than Wade for sure, but right now that doesn't factor into who is better at this moment.WTF?!? Those were his playoff numbers. Wade averaged 28/8/5/2/1.4 on 49% shooting pre-injury. If anyone had fallen off it was Bron, who wasn't near his old self until the final month or so.

You also forgot to bring up clutch ability where it's easily Wade, yet brought up stupid stuff like athleticism and FT %, but I'll let that slide.As I said, give me Wade.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Not even close, Wade is the better defender. Man to man both are average, but Wade is one of the best help defenders in the league. Averaging about 1.4BPG for a 6'4'' PG/SG is amazing.</div>And Lebron is a better man to man defender, therefore leaving it at Wade just having a slight edge.

 

Actually, coming straight from High School, starting in the NBA, and being the high quality player LeBron is, that is impressive- very impressive. No other player that I can think of off the top of my head did that straight out of high school.

Since when? LeBron ups his game in the fourth. He may not be the clutchest guy when it comes to the last shot, but a fourth quarter is 12 minutes long. LeBron plays his hardest in the fourth.

Yes, his free throws are shaky, but he can work on that. He has really started to break out clutch wise this past season. Even as amazing as the Piston game was, you can't use one of his last games to make up for a few years in the league. So yes, as of right now this very second, I would have to give Wade the clutch vote. Now that I have already established that, I won't go back to it.

I pretty much agree with this. LeBron is stronger than Wade is and has the better ability to hit fade-ways. Add to that he seems to be more comfortable with off balance shots than anything else, he tends to look to get in that situation. If he isn't going to drive, he stands around and waits for the shot clock to get a little lower before taking a dribble and leaning off balance with a shot. This pisses me off. Wade's shot selection is better. He looks for a good shot, because of this, his field goal percentage tends to be higher.

Actually, LeBron's weakness is his on-ball play. He is best off the ball. He can sneak his hands in there as Eric Snow does when a player drives by and knock the ball loose, he reads the passing lanes well enough and has the athletic ability and length to explode and intercept passes, he has more blocking ability and instinct than Drew Gooden, Big Z, or AV, he closes out shots well, and he has quick hands. People forget that defensive rebound is part of defense sometimes, but it is. LeBron is a great defensive rebounder. His weakness on defense comes in on his on-ball play. LeBron is a gambler. You show him the ball and he will bite with a few swaps of his hands. Defense is supposed to be played with the feet, using the hands as a secondary weapon. Some players (like LeBron) seem to forget this. They focus more on looking for a chance at poking the ball loose and getting a steal than they do keeping their man in front of them. Because of this, some players "hop" instead of reach-stepping when guarding a player with the ball out on the perimeter. LeBron tends to hop sometimes. He then gambles and trys to get his hands on the ball. This allows players to get by him and to the hoop. He has gotten better at this though, he did a nice job against Billups and the Pistons the last few games. But this has been one of his bigger weakness, on-ball defense. That goes for down low too. He tends to take the bait on post-up moves and jukes, looking to stop the player and get a steal or something. So the player has a chance at getting by LeBron and laying in the ball. These aren't huge things though because they can be improved. He has the ability to play great defense, and we will see that in the future. But right now, he gambles too much.

But Wade has never had to carry a team completely by himself- he has always had a good supporting cast or teammates to help him carry the burden. He had Eddie Jones and Lamar Odom his rookie season (those guys were the big reason the Heat made it to the playoffs- although Wade was huge in them, they wouldn't even had been there if it wasn't for those two- well mainly Lamar Odom). The Finals against the Mavericks, Wade had to do just about everything offensively, that was impressive. But he didn't do the whole thing by himself. Was he guarding Dirk? Who had the veteran play to end the series? His team helped out, no one else was doing sh*t? Hardly. They wouldn't have won it without him, but he didn't win it by just himself.

LeBron proved the last two games against the Pistons why he is a good leader. He vocally took over and he took over the game. Setting players up for shots, getting his teammates involved- he isn't the type of player that wants to shoot all the time. He knows the importance of getting his teammates going and he does his best to try and get them to catch fire. He leads the team by example with his unselfish play, the way he attacks the boards, vocally- both on the court and on the bench, and the energy he helps bring. As for riding a player for a win, I think that game 5 proved you can do that with LeBron. That was more of a riding than Wade ever got in a single game. Although, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to stack one great game up against a player's career. I am simply just saying that you can do it with LeBron.

I will agree with that. Although I would rather have LeBron personally, I think what you said is an answer I would take myself.

This is my opinion, let's wait on this debate. LeBron just came off a huge series in the last couple of games, so he has some unfair advantage. LeBron James is really breaking out this past season, he seems to do so every year, there is always something he has gotten better at that he wasn't that good at the season before. So, for me, I would rather wait for the finals to be over and LeBron finish his transition (from becoming a master from a man-child or whatever you want to call it). Then, when we start the next season, throughout that season, we can compare the two again. But this debate has been done so many times before, and the real reason I think it has started again is because of LeBron's performances as of late. So let's wait for next season to begin again and let's see if what we are seeing right now from LeBron can keep up in a regular season's play. Let's see how much his elevated game will stay, and how much is just here for the playoffs.

 

Lebron because he is so difficult to hold, 6-8 245 pounds or something like that. On top of that He's shot is not all that horrible, he can shoot with the best of them when he's on a roll and averages about 42% when he's not. Only weakness would be freethrow, but even that is not a complete downfall(70%). If you was to ask me who would I want on my team, I'll go with King James all the way. :worthy:

 

[quote name='Drake24' post='372750' date='Jun 4 2007, 01:59 PM']Actually, coming straight from High School, starting in the NBA, and being the high quality player LeBron is, that is impressive- very impressive. No other player that I can think of off the top of my head did that straight out of high school.[/quote]I never said it wasn't impressive, but it means nothing when comparing who is the better player.

LeBron is well known for being outplayed by other stars in the fourth and generally disapearing. He has shown he has the ability to take over, but countless times he simply hasn't done it.

He broke out as a clutch player last season IMO, getting out of that slump. But this year he has chokeda number of times...head to head vs Wade (Wade outscored him 24-7 in 4th), missing FT's and game tying shot vs Mavs, 9-9 from line vs Pistons then missing 2 clutch in final 30 seconds, missing FT and disapearing vs Nets in game 4, the first 2 games of Pistons series, etc... Meanwhile Wade has been pretty awesome in the clutch this season, probably the most dependable in the league (and he has been very clutch since college).

I know his weakness is on ball defense as is Wade, which is why I call them both average on ball defender. But for help defense Wade is much better at playing the passing lanes and blocking shots.

He has never had the oppertunity to really do it by himself, so it's not fair to take away from Wade for that. But when teammates are down or Shaq is out, he seems to always up his play and do about as much as you can possibly do to win, and it usually works. With Shaq out this year, interim coach and role players injured/suspended, he led the team to a 25-21 record when he played and 1-7 without him (this was up until the injury).Wade did just about as much as you can do to win the series. He carried the offense, came up huge in clutch, hit the big shots, made the big steals, etc... He didn't do "everything" but he did about as much as a player can do.

What about Wade's 24 in the 4th vs the Cavs this year? What about his 17 straight points, including game winning shot, vs Pistons last year? What about his 21pts in clutch, with team down 10+ with 5min to go in game 3 (which they were down 0-2 in series)? Once again, I am not questioning LeBron's ability in the clutch, but he is not dependable to take over and carry team to win in most games. With Wade, when he sees teammates not hitting shots or team is in trouble, you can always depend on him to take over the game and make the right plays. With Bron this isn't so. That is why I call Wade the better oncourt leader.

To each his own.

I actually think he has regressed from last season if anything. His scoring has become more jumpshot oriented, his playoff run hasn't been necassarily amazing (although I can never expect him to top what he did to the Wizards last year), he didn't play well in regular seaosn until final 1-2 months, etc...

 

You can keep it noted when you are comparing who is better, but I agree that it doesn't play a role in it. It might in a rookie season when arguing about possible potential and whatever else, but at this point in these player's career, it is meaningless. I was just clarifying, not arguing.

People underrate him in this area. He was worse in the past, but he has gotten better and continues to do so. I never said he out played the star of the other team, but I am saying he usually has a better fourth quarter than any other quarter in the game. You don't have to be a great player to have that said about you. I wasn't arguing that he plays better in the fourth than Wade or Kobe, although I think he has potential to. I was just clarifying that he does play better in the fourth. The problem was, the whole Cavalier team as a whole wouldn't be able to finish games. That changed this year. They still have some problems, but they have gotten a lot better.

I already said Wade has been better in the clutch. I was just expressing that James is getting better. Don't need to debate it with me, I have already agreed with you on that. He has choked this year, but he also choked a lot last year, and the year before- he is getting better, but he isn't great at it yet. Sure Game 5, but that was only one game. There is a difference between a clutch performance and a clutch player. LeBron isn't what I would call a clutch player yet. He is clutch enough, but I would still rather have Wade for that. In the near future, I say LeBron will take over in that catagory- or at least he has the potential too, but not right now.

Yes, but that is why I said, "That was more of a riding than Wade ever got in a single game." There is a difference between it being a single game and who has done it the most. And then that is why I finished up that with, "Although, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to stack one great game up against a player's career. I am simply just saying that you can do it with LeBron." Which explains why I brought up just one game. I was proving a point that LeBron has the ability to do it.

Yeah, but you said the rest of the team didn't do "sh*t." They did. Of course I am not being a smartass here and taking you literally, but you have to keep in mind people are reading this and forming opinions based off what is posted. So a lot of times I clarify things or add to things so that the reader doesn't get the wrong impression. So don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be a smartass or put words in your mouth. I just don't want people getting the impression that Wade did it all in the finals. He did most of it, but he did far from all.

This wasn't directed all at you. A lot of people I have come across down grade the Heat's supporting cast from the championship and act like Wade, from the start of his career, has done it all. He has carried his team. And that is not the case. He has had moments, like you said, where he has had too. But he has never had to do it for an extended period of time, like a season or even half a season.

He said himself he was saving himself for the second half of the season and that is when he was going to turn it on. His stat production (mainly on scoring) dropped. But his ability and what he contributed didn't. The year before, he put up 31 PPG. That is hard to do. Kobe Bryant put up 35 PPG that season, and he didn't put up those numbers this year, no one complains about his stat production dropping off (or at least that I notice). But both players PPG dropped off 4 points. Everything else for LeBron James stayed about the same. You have to keep in mind that LeBron James didn't have Larry Hughes last year, and he did this year. So he has to share some of those extra shots he was getting (202 less to be exact). His total shots taken were his second lowest in his career. Once he started developing that jumper, he started taking to many shots from outside (I hate that. DRIVE MORE GET AS CLOSE TO THE RIM AS POSSIBLE! No, he has to keep jacking up shots), so that is one thing that really drove me crazy, but at least he improved his jumper. Other than that, he hasn't regressed at all. He has been improving. His leadership has improved. The team has improved. The Cavaliers finishing out games has improved. He really hasn't been regressing, but I would see where you might think so- it has been more intangibles that he has improved on this year more so than the tangibles. And sometimes those are harder to notice.

 

[quote name='Drake24' post='372939' date='Jun 4 2007, 03:45 PM']People underrate him in this area. He was worse in the past, but he has gotten better and continues to do so. I never said he out played the star of the other team, but I am saying he usually has a better fourth quarter than any other quarter in the game. You don't have to be a great player to have that said about you. I wasn't arguing that he plays better in the fourth than Wade or Kobe, although I think he has potential to. I was just clarifying that he does play better in the fourth. The problem was, the whole Cavalier team as a whole wouldn't be able to finish games. That changed this year. They still have some problems, but they have gotten a lot better[/quote]Not much really to comment on here except the fact that stars are supposed to play their best in the 4th. But moreso than the other top 5 players or so in the league, he has had more times where he shyes away in the last few minutes and seems more content on blending in.

Again, not much to comment on here, and I agree with you.

I brought up those games as games that can contend with what Bron did. Bron's 29 in 4th/2 OT's was extremely impressive, but what Wade did those times are definately comparable.

He did for half a season, with Shaq out for 42 games. He had to deal with things like an interim coach, Antoine Walker and Posey being suspended for being fat, starting PG in and out all the time, rookies who have never played have to step in, and the team in general aging before our eyes. Yet he kept them over .500 in the games he played.

I actually disagree with a lot of this. First of all Bron's stats across the board have went down....points, rebounds, assists, FG %, 3pt %, FT %, etc.... Kobe went up in rebounds, assists FG %, FT %, etc (and this is with him being injured and out of shape for first month or so of season). If he pulled a Shaq and saved it up for the 2nd half, that sends a wrong message to me. For a guy who hasn't won jack sh*t and for a team fighting for a #2 seed (which they got on last day of season), the 22 year old should be playing every game all the same. Outside of oncourt leadership, he has remained the same except for becoming more jumpshot oriented, which makes him less effective as a scorer than last year, thus me saying if anything he has regressed.I actually think the team is worse than last year, but this year they got much easier/better matchups. Last year they had the same record but IMO a very good energy boost in Flip Murray, they had better offensive chemistry, etc... And their ability to finish out games really hasn't improved all that much...all the times I listed LeBron as choking his team was doing nothing beside him, they were nowhere to be found for the most part against NJ and first 2 games of Detroit, etc...

 

The only point in me sticking Kobe in there was because of his PPG drop off. I wasn't comparing the two players season, I was just trying to justify LeBron's drop in PPG by using that, what he said, and the fact Hughes was back. While last season was a better season for him production wise, the whole point of me saying anything was that I was explaining he is indeed getting better instead of regressing as a player. You can have a bad season and still improve as a player in different areas.

I wasn't saying I agreed with it, I was just saying what he said. I don't remember if he said it during, after, or before. If it was after, for all we know it could be an "ego thing" and he is trying to make excuses- who knows. Either way, I don't agree with it.

He has improved his on-ball defense, he took more clutch shots instead of passing them up, and yes, the leadership was the big one. I didn't say he was making large bounds in improvement, although I bet we see one after this off-season (just a prediction) I was just saying he was improving opposed to your "regressing" statment. Becoming more jump shot oriented, that pissed me off. I agree that in that sense, he regressed. But as a player in whole, he has been improving. I thought you ment as an overall player he had gotten worse. But I admit that a "jump shot mentality" instead of trying to get as close to the hoop as possible is a step back in his offensive mind set. But that is just offense.His FT% dropped, and when he doesn't shoot good from the free throw line, he tends to take more jump shots. A whole season of that theory might be pushing it, why his free throws dropped, I don't know. But that is the best thing I can come up with. It is supported by the fact he shot less free throws than last year, and his FG% and 3pt% went down (which would imply he was taking more outside shots, which you yourself said). So who knows, maybe that theory is right.

How so? They played the Wizards last season, they played them this season (although with the injuries that doesn't mean anything). They then played the Nets and the Pistons again- where this time they won. They played the same two teams they played last year (although the injuries to the Wizards does damage to this point in my arguement) and they beat them both again, and on top of that they played another team. How is playing two teams harder than playing three- when the team you lost too last season you beat this season? It is not like the Pistons suck compared to last season, they had Flip, they had Chris Webber, Nazr Mohammed, and Jason Maxiell was huge this year for them. On top of that, the Pistons made another guaransheed basically saying the Cavs weren't ready for their big men. So it wasn't like the Pistons were that much tougher last year.

Flip was huge, but why again did we have to pick up Flip? Because Larry Hughes was out basically the whole season. He broke his finger in preseason. So basically, you can count Hughes as a new member to the team this year.

Not so. Damon Jones wasn't hitting too many key threes last season and this season he really took off. His 3pt% went up and so did the fans love for the guy. Sasha became a bigger factor this season. Larry Hughes actually got to play, so he was a plus (although some fans weren't to happy with him). Daniel Gibson has been huge as well. Big Z's production went up as did Drew Gooden's and AV's. LeBron is getting more help from his teammates than he did before and his teammates are more capable of making shots than before. I think their offense is better this year than last. Their defense has also been better, as has their rebounding. So I am not sure where the "ect." comes into play.

It has gotten better, it still isn't great, but it has gotten better. The Cavaliers didn't have to go to a game 7 against the Pistons this year did they? Where last year they screwed up in game 6 and had to go to a game 7 where they lost. The Cavaliers were able to sweep the Wizards (even with the injuries) weren't they? The Cavs were also able to finish off the Nets without going to a game 7. The Nets aren't an easy team to beat. The Cavs finished off the second half of the season strong, holding on to the 2nd seed and only losing 3 games in the final month- finishing the season on a four game winning streak.

 

Not gonna reply to most of the stuff as I feel everything has been thoroughly explained, but I just ahve these things to say:[quote name='Drake24' post='373074' date='Jun 4 2007, 05:56 PM']How so? They played the Wizards last season, they played them this season (although with the injuries that doesn't mean anything). They then played the Nets and the Pistons again- where this time they won. They played the same two teams they played last year (although the injuries to the Wizards does damage to this point in my arguement) and they beat them both again, and on top of that they played another team. How is playing two teams harder than playing three- when the team you lost too last season you beat this season? It is not like the Pistons suck compared to last season, they had Flip, they had Chris Webber, Nazr Mohammed, and Jason Maxiell was huge this year for them. On top of that, the Pistons made another guaransheed basically saying the Cavs weren't ready for their big men. So it wasn't like the Pistons were that much tougher last year.[/quote]The loss of Ben Wallace really hurt this team passed what stats will make you believe. Ben Wallace is what made the Pistons so effective in guarding LeBron last year yet still being able to stick to other players. This year when prince played him 1 on 1 Bron would fly by him for the dunk (aka game 5). Last year Ben Wallace would come in to discourage that shot/block the shot/take the charge. Without Ben Wallace they lost interior defense and rebounding. Last year the Pistons held the Cavs to 81PPG, this year 90PPG. Last year they were outrebounded by .3RPG, whereas this year 3RPG. This year Z averaged 13/9 compared to 11/6 last year. Ben was the spark plug for that team and more often than not he got his teammates, and the crowd, hyped for the game....this year the Pistons were flat the whole series.

Larry played 36 games last year and 9 of the playoff games...he is not a new member to the team.

Damon Jones' stats are exactly the same as last year with a slight rise in 3pt% this year...and you seem to forget his series winning jumpshot in game 6 vs Wizards. Z's production has dropped and Gooden has stayed the same. Sasha has been better, but Marshall has dropped. Varajao amke little difference on offense except for offensive rebounding. You also lose Flip Murray's big spark.The team's offensive production has been down a bit this year, but that really isn't a big deal as much as how much mroe stagnant it has gotten. The offense finally looks like it is coming together, but up until the last few games it was clearly worse than last year....and it all goes back to Bron being less agressive as a scorer than last year.

Wizards didn't have their 2 best players, so that is absolutely pointless to bring up.Nets didn't have their only scoring big man in Krstic, and TOTALLY blew game 4 (and they outplayed the Cavs in game 2) yet still brought series to 6.Pistons are a different team than last year as I stated before.

 

[quote name='Nitro1118' post='372485' date='Jun 4 2007, 01:57 AM']All that means absolutely nothing (and the last part really isn't true).[/quote] And how is that not true? Wade and Shaq have developed as franchise players for this Heat team, not just Wade.[quote name='Nitro1118' post='372485' date='Jun 4 2007, 01:57 AM']LeBron shoots about 32% from 3, so it's not like he is an impressive 3pt shooter and it ends up hurting his average. Last time I checked (near the end of the season) Wade shoots 39% from midrange while Bron shoots 34%. Considering I personally agree that in a general sense LeBron has a better jumpshot, Wade is much smarter in using it thus making him more effective.[/quote]I dont agree Wade being smarter makes him more effective, the fact that Lebron can shoot from anywhere on the court, and has his defenders on his feet the whole time, makes him more of an offensive threat. [quote name='Nitro1118' post='372485' date='Jun 4 2007, 01:57 AM']For ONE year, give me Wade. I feel he is the more polished, experienced and overall better player that I feel is better equipped to win in the playoffs. For the future, after that 1 year, of course it is LeBron. He has more upside than Wade for sure, but right now that doesn't factor into who is better at this moment.[/quote] You're clearly misunderstanding that '06 playoff run. The WHOLE Miami Heat team was built to function for one year, it doesn't mean that Wade is the best to go with for one year. Everyone on that team was in their final years of making a final playoff push. Your just comparing Lebron and Wade based on last year. But if you were a GM drafting at the number one spot this year, and you really needed to make the playoffs next year, (O Well so and so had a better freshmen year 3 years ago than Oden did this year, then well take him) would you seriously look at it that way? [quote name='Nitro1118' post='372485' date='Jun 4 2007, 01:57 AM']You also forgot to bring up clutch ability where it's easily Wade, yet brought up stupid stuff like athleticism and FT %, but I'll let that slide.[/quote]You yourself said Lebron is indecisive and not clutch because he cant hit Free Throws, that was actually a plus for Wade, what are you complaining about.

 

[quote name='RaptorFan#1' post='373927' date='Jun 5 2007, 07:06 PM']And how is that not true? Wade and Shaq have developed as franchise players for this Heat team, not just Wade.[/quote]Wade carried his team to Final 4 in college, was the leader of the Heat by the end of his rookie year, and by '05-'06 he was the franchise and clearly best player for the Heat. If LeBron had Shaq in his 2nd season you would be saying the same things about Bron/Shaq.

He is more of a threat at getting hot for a stretch, but Wade is a more consistent threat the whole game. Wade is smarter with his shot selection and much less of a chance to go on a cold stretch than LeBron. If Bron had Kobe or T-Mac type scoring ability where he could get 8-9 3pt shots in a half, then that's different. But he doesn't, and he isn't a much better shooter than Wade.

What? When did I bring up the '06 run? If a league started up and was around for only one year, and I had my choice between picking LeBron or Wade to lead my team, give me Wade. I feel he is the better overall player, and more equipped in playoffs due to his experiences since college and natural killer instinct. He has been the leader and taken over in the playoffs every year with and without Shaq.

I don't care if those categories (rebounding/free throws) are in Wade's favor or not as I feel they are fairly pointless to bring up. The only realy categories I care much about are scoring, playmaking, clutch ability, and defense. Free throws in the clutch fall into the clutch category, and unless you are a 13RPG guy rebounding doesn't make a big difference to me. In all 4 of those major categories I take Wade in.

 

Gosh, I'm not gonna even waste an hour of my time reading all ya'll post.Anyway, I think Lebron is much better. His stats are better, his dunks are better, and his overall game play is much better. Although D-Wade is very close to Lebron, I just think Lebron post game and shooting abilities is what favors him in this comparison.If Wade had better shooting, and post moves, I'd say this was an equal comparison.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakers4Life24/7 @ Jun 6 2007, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, I think Lebron is much better. His stats are better, his dunks are better, and his overall game play is much better. Although D-Wade is very close to Lebron, I just think Lebron post game and shooting abilities is what favors him in this comparison.If Wade had better shooting, and post moves, I'd say this was an equal comparison.</div>What a hypocrite...Anyway no, his stats aren't better. Wade scored more, had more assists, steals, blocks, Fg % and FT %. You say shooting and post moves, but Bron rarely goes to the post and Wade shoots the midrange jumper at 5% better. And your arguement neglects most other very important criterea.

 

I don't want to get entangled in such a monotonous debate, but this might help a few people out: www.nba.com/hotzonesDon't look at Wade's hotzone if you're cyanophobic.

 

Guess what? Wade shoots the midrange jumper at 39% compared to Bron's 35%. And if you include 3's, Wade shoots 37% to Bron's 34%.So I don't see what you are trying to prove...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 6 2007, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Guess what? Wade shoots the midrange jumper at 39% compared to Bron's 35%. And if you include 3's, Wade shoots 37% to Bron's 34%.So I don't see what you are trying to prove...</div>I wasn't trying to prove anything, smart guy, I was just putting that out there. Even so, don't even bring up Dwyane's 3's....everyone knows 'Bron is better from 3...midrange, probably Wade, but Lebron takes the most absurd shots....if the dude was smarter and penetrated more so than taking dumb shots, the debate would be so much easier to resolve. I'm still surprised no one has mentioned Dwyane's meltdown in the series.