This is the second edition of Magic Debate. In this game, posters go head to head and debate Orlando Magic topics. One winner moves on from each of the three matches and one wildcard will be selected to compete with the three winners in a championship. There will also be a loser bracket so we can determine who came in what order. Without further ado, here's this match's debaters. Only CLos, Master Shake, and Dark Hero may post in this thread! Good luck to all of you. Here is your question. <font color=""Blue"">Question: Which Magic player will improve the most from last season to this season? Last year, everyone thought Darko would have a breakout year and improve drastically. Who is in that same position this season and why?</font>
The player I see having the most improvement is J.J. Redick. He is destined for a break out season and will but utilized under Stan Van Gundy more so then with Brian Hill. J.J. Redick came out of college one of the top players in his class, and known to be able to shot the ball well. Last year, he just didn't get the minutes or coaching to play at the level his is capable of. With the addition of Lewis and Stan Van Gundy, Redick should be able to come off the bench early and often and get those open shots because of the double teams on Lewis or Howard. Redick was a proven scorer in college. He practices hours on his jumper. However, he is not just a volume shooter, he shot 41% from behind the arc in college which is amazing for a college player. He moves great without the ball like Rip Hamilton or Reggie Miller and makes his defender work. He has great endurance and can run around the floor for as long as needed without showing fatigue. He uses great body fakes and can release his shot as quick as anyone in the game. He can get to the line with ease and is able to fade i any direction. Redick is not great at creating his own shot. Brian Hill didn't know how to use Redick properly. Redick is great at coming off screens and having some set plays. If Hill had some pick and rolls, screen plays, kick outs and lob passes to Redick, he could of scored almost 8per game in his rookie year, possibly more. He is a bot short for a typical shooting guard (6'4), but he can run very well. He is a good ball-handler and can pass well. He is able to use everything in his arsenal to get his opponent off balance and get to the hoop or stop in a dime and his his mid range jumper which complements so well with his 3. While being a "soft" defender because of his height is weakness he has. He is not big, so 6'7 SG can shoot over him or back him up. His lack of lateral quickness hurts him, but he can still get weak side help. However, Redick isn't known for his defense, he is known for his offense. Which, if Stan Van Gundy can use correctly, can make him a deadly shooter from outside and a threat. He can keep opponents honest and burn them if they back off. For these reason, this is why I think J.J. Redick can have a break out season, and become a factor in their line-up instead of sitting on their bench.
That's a very tough question to answer. The obvious choice would be JJ Redick. However, a recent trade that could send JR Smith would most likely JJ being a backup. In my opinion, I feel that Trevor Ariza could improve the most on this team this year. He's the Magic's X-Factor. This guy is a tremendous defender and a very exciting player to watch. His offensive game is raw, but if he improves and adds a solid mid range jumper, then he should see a lot more action. If JR Smith is dealt here along with Reggie Evans, JJ might seem smaller minutes because although a good shooter, he's a liability on defense. Ariza could see time at SG/SF because he's versatile and will most likely guard the opposing team's best player. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Master Shake:</div><div class="quote_post">He is a bot short for a typical shooting guard (6'4), but he can run very well. He is a good ball-handler and can pass well. He is able to use everything in his arsenal to get his opponent off balance and get to the hoop or stop in a dime and his his mid range jumper which complements so well with his 3. While being a "soft" defender because of his height is weakness he has. He is not big, so 6'7 SG can shoot over him or back him up. His lack of lateral quickness hurts him, but he can still get weak side help. However, Redick isn't known for his defense, he is known for his offense. Which, if Stan Van Gundy can use correctly, can make him a deadly shooter from outside and a threat. He can keep opponents honest and burn them if they back off. For these reason, this is why I think J.J. Redick can have a break out season, and become a factor in their line-up instead of sitting on their bench. </div> I agree with almost everything you said except for the bolded statements. First off, Redick isn't known for attacking the rim. He doesn't really have a mid range jumper that much as well. He was just known for shooting 3s all day at Duke. Also, that's why he is a liability. Not only is he not a good defender, he's also 6'4 which is not a typical size SG which are mainly 6'6. That's why he possibly might not see minutes. He's most likely like a Fred Hoiberg type player. A terrific shooter but isn't a good defender. You also said he can get help on defense. The Magic aren't going to want to change up their defense and have a "spy" because Redick could get burned so quickly. The Magic aren't a good perimeter defensive team as it is, so the Magic need to play man-to-man. Ariza is a good defender on the other hand and is lanky. He's like a Tayshuan Prince without the consistent jumper/3 point shot. That's why he should see minutes as a backup or could still possibly start at SG because Rashard Lewis isn't a good defender himself.
CLos: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's a very tough question to answer. The obvious choice would be JJ Redick. However, a recent trade that could send JR Smith would most likely JJ being a backup. </div> Not to bust your balls here, but trade speculation is not a valid reason to put JJ as a back-up. IF J.R. Smith gets traded to the Magic, then most likely JJ will be back-up, but could see improved minutes off the bench. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In my opinion, I feel that Trevor Ariza could improve the most on this team this year. He's the Magic's X-Factor. This guy is a tremendous defender and a very exciting player to watch. His offensive game is raw, but if he improves and adds a solid mid range jumper, then he should see a lot more action. </div> Trevor Ariza is the type of player who has been in the league for about 4 years, and has done about the same a Juan Dixon. He has had some minutes in New York and in Orlando and has yet to prove he should start or play big minutes. The reason I didn't chose Ariza is because of how many chances he has had and how long he has been in the league. Redick, coming in to his sophomore year will try to prove that he can take what he had in college and bring it to the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If JR Smith is dealt here along with Reggie Evans, JJ might seem smaller minutes because although a good shooter, he's a liability on defense. Ariza could see time at SG/SF because he's versatile and will most likely guard the opposing team's best player. </div> Do you want Ariza guarding Paul Pierce or Vince Carter? I sure wouldn't. He is a good defender yes, but he will not shut down guys. With him being a bigger liability on offense, guys can go and double Lewis or Howard. Again, if you want to bring up Smith, he will play SG, start, and play big minutes, but Redick will see even more the Ariza because he is a great scorer and will work on his defense. While Trevor Ariza had been in the league for 4 years, and has yet to show much. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with almost everything you said except for the balded statements. First off, Redick isn't known for attacking the rim. He doesn't really have a mid range jumper that much as well. He was just known for shooting 3's all day at Duke.</div> Okay, Redick, shot 50% from the field and 43% from 3 point land. He is one of the hardest player to guard in college because of how well he moves off the ball. He gets to the open space and shoots with ease. His mechanics are amazing because he puts so much into them. He is able to get his defender off balance using lots of fakes and has pretty good ball handling skills. He can attack the rim, but he is great at stopping on a dime and hitting a shot. With time, even this year, he can improve so much under a new coach and better players. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, that's why he is a liability. Not only is he not a good defender, he's also 6'4 which is not a typical size SG which are mainly 6'6. That's why he possibly might not see minutes. He's most likely like a Fred Hoiberg type player. A terrific shooter but isn't a good defender. You also said he can get help on defense.</div> Redick is not a horrible defender. He gets about 2 steals in college and can play some defense. The magic con compensate for a little poor defense for a huge offensive explosion from this guy. He can score with ease and can put the magic back in games with his shooting. He will get better at defense, he has only been in the league for 1 year with limited minutes. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Magic aren't going to want to change up their defense and have a "spy" because Redick could get burned so quickly. The Magic aren't a good perimeter defensive team as it is, so the Magic need to play man-to-man. Ariza is a good defender on the other hand and is lanky. He's like a Tayshuan Prince without the consistent jumper/3 point shot. That's why he should see minutes as a backup or could still possibly start at SG because Rashard Lewis isn't a good defender himself.</div> They don't need a ""spy" on Redick. It is called team defense. Sometimes, he will get burned, it happens. He will however, not get consistently burned because he is not a horrible defender. Redick can then guard the opposing teams PG, while Nelson could take the SG, or vise versa. Redick can guard some SG, but given the chance, he will get better on defense. Ariza again, has shown the best he can be, while Redick, just 1 year from college, can improve and show why he was a great scorer at Duke.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not to bust your balls here, but trade speculation is not a valid reason to put JJ as a back-up. IF J.R. Smith gets traded to the Magic, then most likely JJ will be back-up, but could see improved minutes off the bench.</div> Right, you can always go by that but if this trade does go through, which more than likely, JJ will most definitely be a backup because JR Smith is overall a better SG than Redick. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Trevor Ariza is the type of player who has been in the league for about 4 years, and has done about the same a Juan Dixon. He has had some minutes in New York and in Orlando and has yet to prove he should start or play big minutes. The reason I didn't chose Ariza is because of how many chances he has had and how long he has been in the league. Redick, coming in to his sophomore year will try to prove that he can take what he had in college and bring it to the NBA.</div> I almost died laughing when I read this part about being in the league for 4 years. Did you know that Ariza was only 22?? The guy isn't even in his prime. He has enough opportunities to develop a solid mid range game. He didn't have any chances in New York whatsoever. New York had a log jam at SG/SF. If he call a guy who has avg. 18.9 mpg an opportunity, then that's completely wrong. Yes, Redick is out to prove something this year but it doesn't mean he'll start being so one-dimensional. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you want Ariza guarding Paul Pierce or Vince Carter? I sure wouldn't. He is a good defender yes, but he will not shut down guys. With him being a bigger liability on offense, guys can go and double Lewis or Howard. Again, if you want to bring up Smith, he will play SG, start, and play big minutes, but Redick will see even more the Ariza because he is a great scorer and will work on his defense. While Trevor Ariza had been in the league for 4 years, and has yet to show much.</div> Okay, your a Raptors fan so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Sure he isn't a shut-down defender, but do you want Redick guarding VC or Pierce?? I didn't think so. Ariza will at least put pressure on the opposing team's talent. Redick seems lost out there defensively. You keep bringing up the part about a liability on offense. Well if he's double-teamed, he can drive to the hole and score. It's not like he's absolutely lost on offense either. You also forgot about the other players like Jameer Nelson/Carlos Arroyo. If they are in the game, they are also solid scorers. Stop bringing up the part about Ariza being in the league. It's not like he's Kwame Brown who's had minutes and hasn't donw anything with them. The Magic this year will be playing small-ball because of the fact that our big men have no depth. Rashard Lewis/Hedo Turkoglu will see time at PF. Basically here's a projected lineup: PG: Nelson SG: Ariza SF: Turkoglu PF: Lewis C: Howard Why didn't I put Redic?? Well possibly the fact that Turkoglu and Nelson are already bad perimeter defenders as it is. The Magic do need to play defense too. Ariza will see time at SG/SF because he brings defense to the floor. Redick doesn't do that. You can even say that Redick is like Pat Garrity. Of course I'm gonna cry but they are solid shooters (well Garrity used to be) but they are a liability on defense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, Redick, shot 50% from the field and 43% from 3 point land. He is one of the hardest player to guard in college because of how well he moves off the ball. He gets to the open space and shoots with ease. His mechanics are amazing because he puts so much into them. He is able to get his defender off balance using lots of fakes and has pretty good ball handling skills. He can attack the rim, but he is great at stopping on a dime and hitting a shot. With time, even this year, he can improve so much under a new coach and better players.</div> I know about Redick's game. I've seen him play in college a bunch of times. But you are forgetting something. THIS ISN'T COLLEGE. You can't just shoot 3s in people's faces all day. The defenses are quicker and a lot smarter. If he were 6'6, 6'7 then of course it'll help me out but since he's also short for his position, that's another liability. He isn't much of a who will drive to the hoop. He mainly just shoots the 3 or inside the 3. He can improve but you can't teach defense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Redick is not a horrible defender. He gets about 2 steals in college and can play some defense. The magic con compensate for a little poor defense for a huge offensive explosion from this guy. He can score with ease and can put the magic back in games with his shooting. He will get better at defense, he has only been in the league for 1 year with limited minutes.</div> Nobody's a horrible defender. Okay, getting 2 steals?? Okay so he can play the passing lanes well. It doesn't mean he actually went up and ripped somebody while he guarded them. The Magic can compensate?? Well it's not good if Redick shoots a 3 and then the opposing team's player that Redick's guarding shoots one back on him. Like I said, he might see limited minutes once again because of his poor defense. He CAN put the Magic back in games, but then again he can put the other team back in games if he is stuck guarding a star. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They don't need a ""spy" on Redick. It is called team defense. Sometimes, he will get burned, it happens. He will however, not get consistently burned because he is not a horrible defender. Redick can then guard the opposing teams PG, while Nelson could take the SG, or vise versa. Redick can guard some SG, but given the chance, he will get better on defense. Ariza again, has shown the best he can be, while Redick, just 1 year from college, can improve and show why he was a great scorer at Duke.</div> Are you saying you want Nelson who is about 6' to guard SGs?? That's even worse. Nelson isn't even a good defender himself. Do you know we don't have a reliable defender besides Ariza and Dooling? Team Defense?? Did you know that we didn't have good team defense last year. Ariza hasn't shown the best he can. He has shown flashes in some games that he could just be a good player and a good defender. I hope he aren't going on stats with Ariza. Us real Magic fans know that with Ariza you get offensive rebounds, defense stops, exciting plays, and he makes hustle plays every night. Just to let you know, while Ariza was out 21 games, the Magic were 5-16. Coincidence?? I don't think so. We were 22-14 with him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Right, you can always go by that but if this trade does go through, which more than likely, JJ will most definitely be a backup because JR Smith is overall a better SG than Redick.</div> JR Smith is a better player, yes, but with time Redick can play more then Smith because he has more potential and could be a better scorer for the magic. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I almost died laughing when I read this part about being in the league for 4 years. Did you know that Ariza was only 22?? The guy isn't even in his prime. He has enough opportunities to develop a solid mid range game. He didn't have any chances in New York whatsoever. New York had a log jam at SG/SF. If he call a guy who has avg. 18.9 mpg an opportunity, then that's completely wrong. Yes, Redick is out to prove something this year but it doesn't mean he'll start being so one-dimensional. </div> Okay, I picked Redick because he is only 1 year removed from college. This is his year to break out because Brian Hill is stupid and didn't know how to use Redick. With a new coach Redick will be able to come out and play to his strengths. I didn't pick Ariza because what is so different about this year? He has been in the league for 4 years and has yet to break out. Redick, 1 year, can break out this year and score 10-15 PPG this year. Ariza will most likely start over Redick because he is more experienced and a better defender, but that is it. He is not better offensively, or nor will he have a break out year. Redick just needs the minutes, give him the time, and you will see he is legit and can play in this league. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, your a Raptors fan so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Sure he isn't a shut-down defender, but do you want Redick guarding VC or Pierce?? I didn't think so. Ariza will at least put pressure on the opposing team's talent. Redick seems lost out there defensively. You keep bringing up the part about a liability on offense. Well if he's double-teamed, he can drive to the hole and score. It's not like he's absolutely lost on offense either. You also forgot about the other players like Jameer Nelson/Carlos Arroyo.</div> Every time you have to guard a star player, you need help. (Unless you are Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, etc..). Ariza cannot shut down those players and neither can Redick, but Howard can step over and help out when need be. Then on the other end, Redick can hit a big shot that Ariza wouldn't <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If they are in the game, they are also solid scorers. Stop bringing up the part about Ariza being in the league. It's not like he's Kwame Brown who's had minutes and hasn't donw anything with them. The Magic this year will be playing small-ball because of the fact that our big men have no depth. Rashard Lewis/Hedo Turkoglu will see time at PF. Basically here's a projected lineup: PG: Nelson SG: Ariza SF: Turkoglu PF: Lewis C: Howard</div> I never said Redick would start did I? No, Ariza will most likely start. I chose Redick because he has yet to prove himself to be that player he was in college. Redick will this year be a soild player off the bench and score often. He will improve his defense and show Magic fans what he can do. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why didn't I put Redic?? Well possibly the fact that Turkoglu and Nelson are already bad perimeter defenders as it is. The Magic do need to play defense too. Ariza will see time at SG/SF because he brings defense to the floor. Redick doesn't do that. You can even say that Redick is like Pat Garrity. Of course I'm gonna cry but they are solid shooters (well Garrity used to be) but they are a liability on defense.</div> Hedo, Nelson, Ariza will all start ahead of Redick. Defense is a huge part of the game, but what Redick lacks in defense, he makes up in scoring. Ariza while being a good 1-on-1 defender does not shut guys down. This is not Ariza's year to break out, it is Redick's. Ariza has had time to break out, but this year is no different. Redick will come out and score like he should. He will move without the ball like he should. He will help the Magic win, like he should. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know about Redick's game. I've seen him play in college a bunch of times. But you are forgetting something. THIS ISN'T COLLEGE. You can't just shoot 3s in people's faces all day. The defenses are quicker and a lot smarter. If he were 6'6, 6'7 then of course it'll help me out but since he's also short for his position, that's another liability. He isn't much of a who will drive to the hoop. He mainly just shoots the 3 or inside the 3. He can improve but you can't teach defense. </div> I don't think he will shoot 3's in guys faces all the time, but he has the ability to. He has a big offensive arsenal. He can fade in any direction, he can make guys play up on him and then fake them out, get close to the hoop, stop pop and drop or get to the rim. What do you mean you can't teach defense? That is why you have a coaching staff. He will get better at defense. By no means will he be a candidate for DPY, but he will play so solid defense, and score on the other end. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody's a horrible defender. Okay, getting 2 steals?? Okay so he can play the passing lanes well. It doesn't mean he actually went up and ripped somebody while he guarded them. The Magic can compensate?? Well it's not good if Redick shoots a 3 and then the opposing team's player that Redick's guarding shoots one back on him. Like I said, he might see limited minutes once again because of his poor defense. He CAN put the Magic back in games, but then again he can put the other team back in games if he is stuck guarding a star.</div> Team defense. I think this year the Magic will play that. Like I said, Ariza cannot play shut down defense, so when he has a star to guard, he gets help coming over. Same can happen with Redick. As a team, when you have to play a star, you need to come together to shut him down. I think Redick has enough in him to play 1 on 1 defense and when the times comes, the team can help him out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you saying you want Nelson who is about 6' to guard SGs?? That's even worse. Nelson isn't even a good defender himself. Do you know we don't have a reliable defender besides Ariza and Dooling? Team Defense?? Did you know that we didn't have good team defense last year. Ariza hasn't shown the best he can. He has shown flashes in some games that he could just be a good player and a good defender. I hope he aren't going on stats with Ariza. Us real Magic fans know that with Ariza you get offensive rebounds, defense stops, exciting plays, and he makes hustle plays every night.</div> Joey Graham has shown flashes too, he has done eveything Ariza has.Infact, you can comapre them, noth have potential, but do not deliver night in and night out. That is why I chose Redick because he has a chance to shwo what he can do. With Ariza you are unsure because you have seen what he can do, but will he go past that. With Redick, we have yet to see it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just to let you know, while Ariza was out 21 games, the Magic were 5-16. Coincidence?? I don't think so. We were 22-14 with him.</div> Okay, with out Bosh the Raptors last year had a winning record, and with them they had one too. This is just a coincidence, it just shows they win more sometimes. It is not a consistent thing. If you can prove that in New York they won more with him, then I will believe this stat.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Master Shake:</div><div class="quote_post">JR Smith is a better player, yes, but with time Redick can play more then Smith because he has more potential and could be a better scorer for the magic.</div> The potential?? You can say that word with Ariza too. The fact is that JR Smith avg. 13ppg playing alongside AI and Carmelo. JR Smith is an overall better player to because he can shoot, play better defense, and attack the rim. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, I picked Redick because he is only 1 year removed from college. This is his year to break out because Brian Hill is stupid and didn't know how to use Redick. With a new coach Redick will be able to come out and play to his strengths. I didn't pick Ariza because what is so different about this year? He has been in the league for 4 years and has yet to break out. Redick, 1 year, can break out this year and score 10-15 PPG this year. Ariza will most likely start over Redick because he is more experienced and a better defender, but that is it. He is not better offensively, or nor will he have a break out year. Redick just needs the minutes, give him the time, and you will see he is legit and can play in this league.</div> Hey, I'm not saying picking Redick was a bad choice. I just don't see him doing as much as Ariza. Yes SVG is the new coach, but then again he also likes the term "defense." What's so different about Ariza?? Well, he is continuing to only get better. His offense is raw but he has a decent jumpshot. What makes you say Redick can score 10-15ppg? He's a smaller player than most SGs so can get guarded easier. Ariza isn't what I would called an experienced player either. Isn't defense important though?? Wouldn't you play somebody who can defend and possibly shutdown the other team's best player? He might not be better offensively, but he can still attack the rim. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Every time you have to guard a star player, you need help. (Unless you are Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, etc..). Ariza cannot shut down those players and neither can Redick, but Howard can step over and help out when need be. Then on the other end, Redick can hit a big shot that Ariza wouldn't</div> Have you seen Ariza play?? He keeps up with most guys. He's a good defender and he's still improving. He's athletic and is quick and has a long frame. Ariza isn't needed to hit the big shot. They have guys like Turkoglu, Nelson, and Lewis for that. Ariza is needed to play defense something Redick might not even know what that is. If Howard helps out Redick on every single posession, then the player he's guarding could get the ball and score to. You can't always have help defense. You need to have a guy who at least can control the team's best player and not him exploding on your team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said Redick would start did I? No, Ariza will most likely start. I chose Redick because he has yet to prove himself to be that player he was in college. Redick will this year be a soild player off the bench and score often. He will improve his defense and show Magic fans what he can do.</div> I agree you. However, Ariza needs to prove himself too. He didn't do as much in the playoffs as he did in the regular season. It's time for him to prove that he has an offensive game then just dunking on Jermaine O'Neal and Emeka Okafor. Ariza already has the defense, if he posesses an offensive game, he'll be a steal for the Magic. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hedo, Nelson, Ariza will all start ahead of Redick. Defense is a huge part of the game, but what Redick lacks in defense, he makes up in scoring. Ariza while being a good 1-on-1 defender does not shut guys down. This is not Ariza's year to break out, it is Redick's. Ariza has had time to break out, but this year is no different. Redick will come out and score like he should. He will move without the ball like he should. He will help the Magic win, like he should.</div> How has Ariza had time to break out?? He's barely been given the minutes to produce. When he gets minutes, he produces. Ariza isn't a "shutdown defender" but he's 10X better than Redick. He can keep up with his man and is a good defender. Who says Redick will be a huge factor in scoring?? If that was the case, they wouldn't have paid millions for Rashard Lewis. Defense wins games. If you can't stop the guy from scoring, then he'll score all day. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think he will shoot 3's in guys faces all the time, but he has the ability to. He has a big offensive arsenal. He can fade in any direction, he can make guys play up on him and then fake them out, get close to the hoop, stop pop and drop or get to the rim. What do you mean you can't teach defense? That is why you have a coaching staff. He will get better at defense. By no means will he be a candidate for DPY, but he will play so solid defense, and score on the other end.</div> I'm aware of Redick's offensive game. Can he do that in the NBA?? That's to be seen. It isn't as easy shooting 3s in people's faces and scoring at will like he did at Duke. So you are saying that Redick who hasn't been a good defender in COLLEGE, will all of a sudden be a solid defender in the NBA? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Team defense. I think this year the Magic will play that. Like I said, Ariza cannot play shut down defense, so when he has a star to guard, he gets help coming over. Same can happen with Redick. As a team, when you have to play a star, you need to come together to shut him down. I think Redick has enough in him to play 1 on 1 defense and when the times comes, the team can help him out.</div> Ariza rarely needs help guarding a player. Redick will constantly need help. That's the main difference. A star player?? That's true, but did you forget about the other 4 guys on the court with him?? The Magic can constantly focus on Redick's man getting passed him because then someone will be left open. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Joey Graham has shown flashes too, he has done eveything Ariza has.Infact, you can comapre them, noth have potential, but do not deliver night in and night out. That is why I chose Redick because he has a chance to shwo what he can do. With Ariza you are unsure because you have seen what he can do, but will he go past that. With Redick, we have yet to see it.</div> You can't really compare Ariza to Graham. With Ariza, you've seen flashes and he has the ability and the potential to consistently bring that. He just needs the minutes. With Redick, you're right we haven't seen it, but it's not like he's gonna be scoring 20ppg either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, with out Bosh the Raptors last year had a winning record, and with them they had one too. This is just a coincidence, it just shows they win more sometimes. It is not a consistent thing. If you can prove that in New York they won more with him, then I will believe this stat.</div> Toronto is a better team the Orlando is. Orlando started out hot in the beginning of last season and when Ariza got hurt, they weren't able to regain themselves. What does NY have to do with anything?? He DIDN'T play in New York. The Knicks had like 5-6 SG/SFs so he was barely able to play anything.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The potential?? You can say that word with Ariza too. The fact is that JR Smith avg. 13ppg playing alongside AI and Carmelo. JR Smith is an overall better player to because he can shoot, play better defense, and attack the rim.</div> I say we stop talking about JR Smith because he is just a rumor. Plus, I don't want to argue about a guy who hasn't played since his accident and we don't know how well he can recover and if he can play at the same level. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey, I'm not saying picking Redick was a bad choice. I just don't see him doing as much as Ariza. Yes SVG is the new coach, but then again he also likes the term "defense." What's so different about Ariza?? Well, he is continuing to only get better. His offense is raw but he has a decent jumpshot. What makes you say Redick can score 10-15ppg? He's a smaller player than most SGs so can get guarded easier. Ariza isn't what I would called an experienced player either. Isn't defense important though?? Wouldn't you play somebody who can defend and possibly shutdown the other team's best player? He might not be better offensively, but he can still attack the rim.</div> Defense is important, but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not comparing Ariza to Redick. They are different players with different strengths and weaknesses. I'm saying that Redick will have his break out year because he will get more minutes, he will have play run for him and will bulk up to keep up with SG. He is quick and can move without the ball very well. He is able to get to an open spot to hit a shot. I'm saying defense isn't important, but again, understand I'm not trying to compare Redick and Ariza. One is a good defender, one is waiting to break out to find his touch. That is why I picked Redick. This is his year to break out and transfer his college skills to the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you seen Ariza play?? He keeps up with most guys. He's a good defender and he's still improving. He's athletic and is quick and has a long frame. Ariza isn't needed to hit the big shot. They have guys like Turkoglu, Nelson, and Lewis for that. Ariza is needed to play defense something Redick might not even know what that is. If Howard helps out Redick on every single posession, then the player he's guarding could get the ball and score to. You can't always have help defense. You need to have a guy who at least can control the team's best player and not him exploding on your team.</div> Redick can play some average defense. But what you are describing is what Ariza can do, we know what he can do. Now you're just asking for hope that this year he can break out. Redick I'm saying needs to. If he doesn't then he is a flop from what he was in college. Ariza is a good player, but Redick will be a break out for the Magic because it is his time to show what he can do. Ariza is a guy who has been there and broken out already. He can play defense and help the magic win, so why does he need to break out again? Do you think that this season he'll be defensive player of the year? He'll score mad points? No, I don't think so. Redick, I'm saying will come out and score more points and develop his game, you get it. I know Ariza is better, but he broke out. Darko, didn't until his last season. Redick had 1 year, without anytime, given the time this year, he will break out and develop his game drastically. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I agree you. However, Ariza needs to prove himself too. He didn't do as much in the playoffs as he did in the regular season. It's time for him to prove that he has an offensive game then just dunking on Jermaine O'Neal and Emeka Okafor. Ariza already has the defense, if he posesses an offensive game, he'll be a steal for the Magic.</div> But, he has broken out. IMO, he will not get any better. He might improve his scoring a bit more, but nothing big. Redick has had no chance, this is his chance. His make or break season to show what he can do, to show that he should of been a lottery pick. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How has Ariza had time to break out?? He's barely been given the minutes to produce. When he gets minutes, he produces. Ariza isn't a "shutdown defender" but he's 10X better than Redick. He can keep up with his man and is a good defender. Who says Redick will be a huge factor in scoring?? If that was the case, they wouldn't have paid millions for Rashard Lewis. Defense wins games. If you can't stop the guy from scoring, then he'll score all day.</div> Why are you comparing offense to defense? That is not the argument. Defense does win games, yes, the Spurs show that. I'm telling you that Ariza will not have a break out season because he will not improve. He is just going to get a little better at scoring and so on. Redick will have a "break out" season because he has to prove himself that he is not a flop, and he can score and compete in the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm aware of Redick's offensive game. Can he do that in the NBA?? That's to be seen. It isn't as easy shooting 3s in people's faces and scoring at will like he did at Duke. So you are saying that Redick who hasn't been a good defender in COLLEGE, will all of a sudden be a solid defender in the NBA? </div> It isn't easy, but it is possible. I never said he will shoot it in people's faces. He can hit that open shot, or come off a screen or move without the ball. He could learn, and become a solid defender. He is still learning the game, like Ariza, but Redick has a offensive game, and soon he can learn un SVG that he will get a defensive game, because like you said SVG likes defense, so Redick will get better because he has to. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Ariza rarely needs help guarding a player. Redick will constantly need help. That's the main difference. A star player?? That's true, but did you forget about the other 4 guys on the court with him?? The Magic can constantly focus on Redick's man getting passed him because then someone will be left open.</div> They don't have to always look after Redick's man, they can focus on their man. Redick can guard his man, not well, but he can. He will develop his defense because that is SVG's way of coaching, so he either plays defense, or leaves. He will play defense because he belongs in a Magic uniform, he will be a great player for them, and he will get his defense down, and play hard. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't really compare Ariza to Graham. With Ariza, you've seen flashes and he has the ability and the potential to consistently bring that. He just needs the minutes. With Redick, you're right we haven't seen it, but it's not like he's gonna be scoring 20ppg either.</div> Why can't I compare Ariza to Graham. Both can play defense, both have shown flashes, both can get rebounds, what is the problem? How do you know Redick won't score 20PPG? His shooting, with development of his game can help him with that. This is his break out season, he could improve, score 10-15PPG, then over the next few season become a top 15 scorer because of his deadly shooting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Toronto is a better team the Orlando is. Orlando started out hot in the beginning of last season and when Ariza got hurt, they weren't able to regain themselves. What does NY have to do with anything?? He DIDN'T play in New York. The Knicks had like 5-6 SG/SFs so he was barely able to play anything.</div> You don't have evidence that the Magic won more because of that. 1 season, 1 time of that doesn't mean anything. Why couldn't they come back when he came back? The whole wasn't that bad, they still made the playoffs. Give me a break, this Ariza makes the Magic win more games, is non sense. This is a consistent fact that you can prove.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Master Shake:</div><div class="quote_post">I say we stop talking about JR Smith because he is just a rumor. Plus, I don't want to argue about a guy who hasn't played since his accident and we don't know how well he can recover and if he can play at the same level.</div> Rumor or not, the trade looks like it's going to happen. He was fine anyways from the accident. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Defense is important, but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not comparing Ariza to Redick. They are different players with different strengths and weaknesses. I'm saying that Redick will have his break out year because he will get more minutes, he will have play run for him and will bulk up to keep up with SG. He is quick and can move without the ball very well. He is able to get to an open spot to hit a shot. I'm saying defense isn't important, but again, understand I'm not trying to compare Redick and Ariza. One is a good defender, one is waiting to break out to find his touch. That is why I picked Redick. This is his year to break out and transfer his college skills to the NBA.</div> I'm know you aren't comparing the two. The bolded statement is what I don't understand. Why do you think the Spurs beat the Cavs?? Because of defense. In any sport, defense wins championships. We need Ariza to play a lot of minutes because of his defense. He might bulk up but he's still not as tall and could easily be shot over and also get posted up. I picked Ariza because his minutes will increase and will show BOTH his offensive and defensive sides. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Redick can play some average defense. But what you are describing is what Ariza can do, we know what he can do. Now you're just asking for hope that this year he can break out. Redick I'm saying needs to. If he doesn't then he is a flop from what he was in college. Ariza is a good player, but Redick will be a break out for the Magic because it is his time to show what he can do. Ariza is a guy who has been there and broken out already. He can play defense and help the magic win, so why does he need to break out again? Do you think that this season he'll be defensive player of the year? He'll score mad points? No, I don't think so. Redick, I'm saying will come out and score more points and develop his game, you get it. I know Ariza is better, but he broke out. Darko, didn't until his last season. Redick had 1 year, without anytime, given the time this year, he will break out and develop his game drastically.</div> Ariza needs to break out also. Although a good defender, he's still an inconsistent player nonetheless. He needs to prove to the organization that he needs to play because he's a good defender as well as a good offensive player. I didn't say he will be DPOY. I don't see Redick avg. anything over 13ppg at most. We don't need that many scorers as you think. Nelson is a shoot first PG, Turkoglu can score, Rashard Lewis, and Dwight Howard. That's four solid guys who can carry the load on offense. He just need Redick to give Dwight a break. It doesn't mean he'll come out and play significent minutes. Ariza, in my opinion, hasn't broken out yet. Let's just say he's shown flashes of brilliances but he needs to show his consistency. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But, he has broken out. IMO, he will not get any better. He might improve his scoring a bit more, but nothing big. Redick has had no chance, this is his chance. His make or break season to show what he can do, to show that he should of been a lottery pick.</div> Again, he hasn't broken out. He's shown what he can do. He can improve his mid-range game and develop a jumper. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why are you comparing offense to defense? That is not the argument. Defense does win games, yes, the Spurs show that. I'm telling you that Ariza will not have a break out season because he will not improve. He is just going to get a little better at scoring and so on. Redick will have a "break out" season because he has to prove himself that he is not a flop, and he can score and compete in the NBA.</div> You can continuing to say that Ariza CAN'T or WON'T improve. Why?? Have you seen him in the off-season?? Have you seen him in enough games?? He can shoot I mean it's not like he's never make a jumper before. He does need to develop a consistent jumper. I believe he can. Redick isn't a flop, he's a role player. Everybody expected him to be a role player. Nobody should or does expect him to avg. 27ppg in the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It isn't easy, but it is possible. I never said he will shoot it in people's faces. He can hit that open shot, or come off a screen or move without the ball. He could learn, and become a solid defender. He is still learning the game, like Ariza, but Redick has a offensive game, and soon he can learn un SVG that he will get a defensive game, because like you said SVG likes defense, so Redick will get better because he has to.</div> You say Redick has an offensive game, well Ariza is a good defender. Ariza can also develop a jumper and if he does, he'll even see more minutes. SVG does like defense, but he doesn't want to wait til Redick develops into a decent defender at best. SVG already has Ariza who's already a sound defensive force. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They don't have to always look after Redick's man, they can focus on their man. Redick can guard his man, not well, but he can. He will develop his defense because that is SVG's way of coaching, so he either plays defense, or leaves. He will play defense because he belongs in a Magic uniform, he will be a great player for them, and he will get his defense down, and play hard.</div> Not well means that he'll give up points. He doesn't need to play defense. He's gonna see limited minutes for his shooting. If they don't focus on Redick's man, then the other team will get points. Ariza isn't an automatic stopper, but he keeps the opposing players at least struggling to make a jumper. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why can't I compare Ariza to Graham. Both can play defense, both have shown flashes, both can get rebounds, what is the problem? How do you know Redick won't score 20PPG? His shooting, with development of his game can help him with that. This is his break out season, he could improve, score 10-15PPG, then over the next few season become a top 15 scorer because of his deadly shooting.</div> Top 15 scorer?? Nobody is going to give him the significent minutes to be that. He can't shoot all day. Defenses are way smarter in the NBA. Graham and Ariza have played in different systems. They are identical but playing with different teams doesn't help the comparison. I think he can score 10-13ppg, but Ariza can also score around 8-10ppg as well. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You don't have evidence that the Magic won more because of that. 1 season, 1 time of that doesn't mean anything. Why couldn't they come back when he came back? The whole wasn't that bad, they still made the playoffs. Give me a break, this Ariza makes the Magic win more games, is non sense. This is a consistent fact that you can prove.</div> Well, Ariza wasn't 100% and they had to regain their chemistry again. Ariza is a good role player and does the dirty work. He makes key plays. That's probably why they went on that losing streak. They didn't have that explosivness. That energy they needed. They also didn't have enough depth so Grant Hill and Turkoglu were playing more minutes and getting tired. You're right, the guy doesn't lead the team in scoring so it doesn't seem that he would be a factor, but the fact that he does the little things and makes key players can make the fact evident.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Master Shake:</div><div class="quote_post">I say we stop talking about JR Smith because he is just a rumor. Plus, I don't want to argue about a guy who hasn't played since his accident and we don't know how well he can recover and if he can play at the same level.</div> Rumor or not, the trade looks like it's going to happen. He was fine anyways from the accident. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Defense is important, but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not comparing Ariza to Redick. They are different players with different strengths and weaknesses. I'm saying that Redick will have his break out year because he will get more minutes, he will have play run for him and will bulk up to keep up with SG. He is quick and can move without the ball very well. He is able to get to an open spot to hit a shot. I'm saying defense isn't important, but again, understand I'm not trying to compare Redick and Ariza. One is a good defender, one is waiting to break out to find his touch. That is why I picked Redick. This is his year to break out and transfer his college skills to the NBA.</div> I'm know you aren't comparing the two. The bolded statement is what I don't understand. Why do you think the Spurs beat the Cavs?? Because of defense. In any sport, defense wins championships. We need Ariza to play a lot of minutes because of his defense. He might bulk up but he's still not as tall and could easily be shot over and also get posted up. I picked Ariza because his minutes will increase and will show BOTH his offensive and defensive sides. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Redick can play some average defense. But what you are describing is what Ariza can do, we know what he can do. Now you're just asking for hope that this year he can break out. Redick I'm saying needs to. If he doesn't then he is a flop from what he was in college. Ariza is a good player, but Redick will be a break out for the Magic because it is his time to show what he can do. Ariza is a guy who has been there and broken out already. He can play defense and help the magic win, so why does he need to break out again? Do you think that this season he'll be defensive player of the year? He'll score mad points? No, I don't think so. Redick, I'm saying will come out and score more points and develop his game, you get it. I know Ariza is better, but he broke out. Darko, didn't until his last season. Redick had 1 year, without anytime, given the time this year, he will break out and develop his game drastically.</div> Ariza needs to break out also. Although a good defender, he's still an inconsistent player nonetheless. He needs to prove to the organization that he needs to play because he's a good defender as well as a good offensive player. I didn't say he will be DPOY. I don't see Redick avg. anything over 13ppg at most. We don't need that many scorers as you think. Nelson is a shoot first PG, Turkoglu can score, Rashard Lewis, and Dwight Howard. That's four solid guys who can carry the load on offense. He just need Redick to give Dwight a break. It doesn't mean he'll come out and play significent minutes. Ariza, in my opinion, hasn't broken out yet. Let's just say he's shown flashes of brilliances but he needs to show his consistency. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But, he has broken out. IMO, he will not get any better. He might improve his scoring a bit more, but nothing big. Redick has had no chance, this is his chance. His make or break season to show what he can do, to show that he should of been a lottery pick.</div> Again, he hasn't broken out. He's shown what he can do. He can improve his mid-range game and develop a jumper. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why are you comparing offense to defense? That is not the argument. Defense does win games, yes, the Spurs show that. I'm telling you that Ariza will not have a break out season because he will not improve. He is just going to get a little better at scoring and so on. Redick will have a "break out" season because he has to prove himself that he is not a flop, and he can score and compete in the NBA.</div> You can continuing to say that Ariza CAN'T or WON'T improve. Why?? Have you seen him in the off-season?? Have you seen him in enough games?? He can shoot I mean it's not like he's never make a jumper before. He does need to develop a consistent jumper. I believe he can. Redick isn't a flop, he's a role player. Everybody expected him to be a role player. Nobody should or does expect him to avg. 27ppg in the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It isn't easy, but it is possible. I never said he will shoot it in people's faces. He can hit that open shot, or come off a screen or move without the ball. He could learn, and become a solid defender. He is still learning the game, like Ariza, but Redick has a offensive game, and soon he can learn un SVG that he will get a defensive game, because like you said SVG likes defense, so Redick will get better because he has to.</div> You say Redick has an offensive game, well Ariza is a good defender. Ariza can also develop a jumper and if he does, he'll even see more minutes. SVG does like defense, but he doesn't want to wait til Redick develops into a decent defender at best. SVG already has Ariza who's already a sound defensive force. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They don't have to always look after Redick's man, they can focus on their man. Redick can guard his man, not well, but he can. He will develop his defense because that is SVG's way of coaching, so he either plays defense, or leaves. He will play defense because he belongs in a Magic uniform, he will be a great player for them, and he will get his defense down, and play hard.</div> Not well means that he'll give up points. He doesn't need to play defense. He's gonna see limited minutes for his shooting. If they don't focus on Redick's man, then the other team will get points. Ariza isn't an automatic stopper, but he keeps the opposing players at least struggling to make a jumper. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why can't I compare Ariza to Graham. Both can play defense, both have shown flashes, both can get rebounds, what is the problem? How do you know Redick won't score 20PPG? His shooting, with development of his game can help him with that. This is his break out season, he could improve, score 10-15PPG, then over the next few season become a top 15 scorer because of his deadly shooting.</div> Top 15 scorer?? Nobody is going to give him the significent minutes to be that. He can't shoot all day. Defenses are way smarter in the NBA. Graham and Ariza have played in different systems. They are identical but playing with different teams doesn't help the comparison. I think he can score 10-13ppg, but Ariza can also score around 8-10ppg as well. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You don't have evidence that the Magic won more because of that. 1 season, 1 time of that doesn't mean anything. Why couldn't they come back when he came back? The whole wasn't that bad, they still made the playoffs. Give me a break, this Ariza makes the Magic win more games, is non sense. This is a consistent fact that you can prove.</div> Well, Ariza wasn't 100% and they had to regain their chemistry again. Ariza is a good role player and does the dirty work. He makes key plays. That's probably why they went on that losing streak. They didn't have that explosivness. That energy they needed. They also didn't have enough depth so Grant Hill and Turkoglu were playing more minutes and getting tired. You're right, the guy doesn't lead the team in scoring so it doesn't seem that he would be a factor, but the fact that he does the little things and makes key plays can make the fact evident.
You posted it twice, <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Rumor or not, the trade looks like it's going to happen. He was fine anyways from the accident.</div> I know he is fine, but I don't have much to say to this trade. Happens or not, it has nothing to do with this debate. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm know you aren't comparing the two. The bolded statement is what I don't understand. Why do you think the Spurs beat the Cavs?? Because of defense. In any sport, defense wins championships. We need Ariza to play a lot of minutes because of his defense. He might bulk up but he's still not as tall and could easily be shot over and also get posted up. I picked Ariza because his minutes will increase and will show BOTH his offensive and defensive sides.</div> I meant to say defense is important, sorry for that typo. I know it is important, and Ariza is good at it, but just because he is good at it, won't me this his break out year. He has shown he is a good defender, I know, but that is it. I think this year will be different for Redick because after a horrible rookie campaign, he needs to come out and show what he can do. Ariza, has shown what he can do, I'm sure he will do more, but how much more, I don't know. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ariza needs to break out also. Although a good defender, he's still an inconsistent player nonetheless. He needs to prove to the organization that he needs to play because he's a good defender as well as a good offensive player. I didn't say he will be DPOY. I don't see Redick avg. anything over 13ppg at most. We don't need that many scorers as you think. Nelson is a shoot first PG, Turkoglu can score, Rashard Lewis, and Dwight Howard. That's four solid guys who can carry the load on offense. He just need Redick to give Dwight a break. It doesn't mean he'll come out and play significent minutes. Ariza, in my opinion, hasn't broken out yet. Let's just say he's shown flashes of brilliances but he needs to show his consistency.</div> Do you want Nelson to shoot more then pass? Is that a PG you want? I think with Redick, Nelson can pass more, Dwight gives up a lot of turn overs, but he can score, Lewis can also score. However, off the bench, Redick will get those minutes. He is able to come in and get set plays. He can move without the ball and get open shots. He could easily score 15PPG. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, he hasn't broken out. He's shown what he can do. He can improve his mid-range game and develop a jumper.</div> So Redick can improve his defense, which could make him more dangerous then Ariza with his great jumper and very good off ball movement. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can continuing to say that Ariza CAN'T or WON'T improve. Why?? Have you seen him in the off-season?? Have you seen him in enough games?? He can shoot I mean it's not like he's never make a jumper before. He does need to develop a consistent jumper. I believe he can. Redick isn't a flop, he's a role player. Everybody expected him to be a role player. Nobody should or does expect him to avg. 27ppg in the NBA.</div> No, I haven't seen Ariza play a whole lot, but Ive seen him play. I never thought Redick would average 27PPG, it's to much. But he can average 15-17PPG with given minutes. What is to stop him? He is a shooter with great mechanics, he can move without the ball and get the open shot from anywhere. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You say Redick has an offensive game, well Ariza is a good defender. Ariza can also develop a jumper and if he does, he'll even see more minutes. SVG does like defense, but he doesn't want to wait til Redick develops into a decent defender at best. SVG already has Ariza who's already a sound defensive force.</div> SVG does like defense, but why wouldn't he like a scorer. Ariza will most likely play more minutes, but this year I think it is Redick who will break out offensively and show why he was so sought after in college. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not well means that he'll give up points. He doesn't need to play defense. He's gonna see limited minutes for his shooting. If they don't focus on Redick's man, then the other team will get points. Ariza isn't an automatic stopper, but he keeps the opposing players at least struggling to make a jumper.</div> By not well, I mean he won't shut them down. You make him sound like an 8th grade basketball player. He can play defense, but not like Ariza or Bowen. He can guard his man, but he is just undersized. Juan Dixon, a SG, 6'3?Yes, still scores about 11PPG with the Raptors, while being very undersized. Redick, a much better player, can score more, and he has more weapons in his arsenal. Also, Dixon isn't a great defender, he gets less steals the Redick, so Redick can play defense, and he can score. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Top 15 scorer?? Nobody is going to give him the significent minutes to be that. He can't shoot all day. Defenses are way smarter in the NBA. Graham and Ariza have played in different systems. They are identical but playing with different teams doesn't help the comparison. I think he can score 10-13ppg, but Ariza can also score around 8-10ppg as well.</div> He can't shoot all day, but he can shoot. I compared Graham and Ariza because of how they played. While the systems are different, they both have had chances, but have yet to show much. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well, Ariza wasn't 100% and they had to regain their chemistry again. Ariza is a good role player and does the dirty work. He makes key plays. That's probably why they went on that losing streak. They didn't have that explosivness. That energy they needed. They also didn't have enough depth so Grant Hill and Turkoglu were playing more minutes and getting tired. You're right, the guy doesn't lead the team in scoring so it doesn't seem that he would be a factor, but the fact that he does the little things and makes key plays can make the fact evident.</div> Why would they have to re-gain their chemistry? When Chris Bosh went out, then came back, the had fine chemistry. Hill and Hedo had to play more minutes yes, but they shouldn't have lost that badly without Ariza. Ariza is needed, but Redick can be that guy who can help Hedo in scoring and play defense if called upon.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Master Shake:</div><div class="quote_post">You posted it twice, </div> Yeah man I don't know why that happened. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know he is fine, but I don't have much to say to this trade. Happens or not, it has nothing to do with this debate.</div> Well, it might because of the fact that it could possibly hurt Redick's playing time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I meant to say defense is important, sorry for that typo. I know it is important, and Ariza is good at it, but just because he is good at it, won't me this his break out year. He has shown he is a good defender, I know, but that is it. I think this year will be different for Redick because after a horrible rookie campaign, he needs to come out and show what he can do. Ariza, has shown what he can do, I'm sure he will do more, but how much more, I don't know.</div> I just wanted to make sure you actually didn't mean that defense wasn't important. Ariza is good at it, so he'll get his minutes. With his minutes, he could also be able to show his offensive side. Redick didn't have a horrible rookie season, he just didn't play. Ariza still needs to show people what to do because people think he's so one-dimensional. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you want Nelson to shoot more then pass? Is that a PG you want? I think with Redick, Nelson can pass more, Dwight gives up a lot of turn overs, but he can score, Lewis can also score. However, off the bench, Redick will get those minutes. He is able to come in and get set plays. He can move without the ball and get open shots. He could easily score 15PPG.</div> Of course it's not the PG the Magic need. However, Nelson is a shoot-first PG. He only avg. 4.3apg last season. I don't think he could easily score 15ppg. We also have Hedo Turkoglu. He's able to score on any given night. We aren't in need for a bunch of scorers. We could easily score with Rashard Lewis and Dwight alone. Ariza should easily be able to get 8ppg because of his quickness and ability to get to the rim. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So Redick can improve his defense, which could make him more dangerous then Ariza with his great jumper and very good off ball movement.</div> How much can he improve his D though?? His defense is just below avg. Ariza, if develops a consistent jumper, will be more dangerous than JJ. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, I haven't seen Ariza play a whole lot, but Ive seen him play. I never thought Redick would average 27PPG, it's to much. But he can average 15-17PPG with given minutes. What is to stop him? He is a shooter with great mechanics, he can move without the ball and get the open shot from anywhere.</div> How many minutes is he going to need though?? He can't possibly have him on the court long because of his liability on the defensive side. He's a great shooter but this is the NBA. They have way better defense than in college. He can't just easily shoot on somebody. He is also 6'4 which is going to limit his ability to do anything else. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">SVG does like defense, but why wouldn't he like a scorer. Ariza will most likely play more minutes, but this year I think it is Redick who will break out offensively and show why he was so sought after in college.</div> SVG doesn't need a bunch of scorers. We have Rashard Lewis, Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, Hedo Turkoglu, and even Carlos Arroyo. That's a bunch of players right there. I know that Redick will get minutes because he's a good shooter, but he isn't as needed as you think. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">By not well, I mean he won't shut them down. You make him sound like an 8th grade basketball player. He can play defense, but not like Ariza or Bowen. He can guard his man, but he is just undersized. Juan Dixon, a SG, 6'3?Yes, still scores about 11PPG with the Raptors, while being very undersized. Redick, a much better player, can score more, and he has more weapons in his arsenal. Also, Dixon isn't a great defender, he gets less steals the Redick, so Redick can play defense, and he can score.</div> Redick is known for not playing defense. His man can shoot over him easily. Juan Dixon is basically a PG. He mainly plays Point. Just because you get steals doesn't mean you're a good defender. Obviously Redick>>Dixon but that shows nothing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He can't shoot all day, but he can shoot. I compared Graham and Ariza because of how they played. While the systems are different, they both have had chances, but have yet to show much.</div> Well, Ariza can still prove himself this year. Obviously without enough big men, the Magic will be playing small-ball. Ariza can fill in for SG/SF and contribute on both the offensive and defensive side. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why would they have to re-gain their chemistry? When Chris Bosh went out, then came back, the had fine chemistry. Hill and Hedo had to play more minutes yes, but they shouldn't have lost that badly without Ariza. Ariza is needed, but Redick can be that guy who can help Hedo in scoring and play defense if called upon.</div> Toronto and Orlando are two different teams. Yes, Toronto did fine but the Magic didn't do fine without Ariza. It couldn't be a coincidence. Well, you got a guy like Grant who is always injured and needs his time to rest. Turkoglu is also a streaky shooter. I don't think Redick is going to be the guy who will automatically come out and be the defender they need from him.
