2005 Stats:Matt Cain: Rightie7 Starts46.12-1 Record30 K19 BB2.33 ERA.093 WHIP.151 BAAPaul Maholm: Southpaw6 Starts41.13-1 Record26 K17 BB2.18 ERA1.16 WHIP.209 BAA
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobferg @ Apr 2 2006, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>the point of this is?</div>Prompting discussion on a sports topic... the point of most message board posts on a sports message board.Unless you would rather I state my opinion and then belittle and demean anyone who dares to disagree?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobferg @ Apr 2 2006, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And Maholm is the real deal. Cain is average at best.</div>Cain has a better BAA, WHIP, and K-per-inning.Maholm has a better Record and ERA.
I mean you didnt say like who will be better? Or who will have the best year? Who will have the most wins? I was just wondering what the deal was.Cain has looked horible this spring. He also didnt impress me in the 2 starts I saw in september. My jaw dropped as I watched maholm last year. he is a total stud. He spots the fastball well, he changes speeds and eye levels with his off-speed stuff and he goes right after hitters. He pitched like he had the balls of roger clemons last year, which is pretty sweet for a rookie. Watch out for the bucos, they are putting together a damn good staff.
Lol. This is a joke right? Best rookie in the bigs. Francisco Liriano. Compared to Johan Santana. 'Nuff said.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Apr 2 2006, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lol. This is a joke right? Best rookie in the bigs. Francisco Liriano. Compared to Johan Santana. 'Nuff said.</div>You mean the player who's been talked about as possibly being sent back down to the minors as recent as oh, yesterday?The pitcher who is already going the Kenny Rogers route by getting arrested for Drunk Driving?The pitcher who in 4 starts has a 1-2 Record and a 5.7 ERA?Granted, he does get a lot of K's per inning. An amazing amount actually. But there are plenty of pitchers who get a ton of K's and have crap ERAs. They aren't the best in the league. You need a combination of both.And speaking of horrid off-season ERA's, Liriano's 6.43 is looking stellar.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobferg @ Apr 2 2006, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I mean you didnt say like who will be better? Or who will have the best year? Who will have the most wins? I was just wondering what the deal was.Cain has looked horible this spring. He also didnt impress me in the 2 starts I saw in september.</div> Though some people put a lot of stock in preseason performances I'd suggest those people should take into account that Mariano Rivera had a pretty bad offseason last year, and such a good regular season that he was a major candidate for the Cy Young award, and if there weren't a RP bias he would have won it.Also, both (all 3 with Liriano) have had pretty bad offseasons. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>My jaw dropped as I watched maholm last year. he is a total stud. He spots the fastball well, he changes speeds and eye levels with his off-speed stuff and he goes right after hitters. He pitched like he had the balls of roger clemons last year, which is pretty sweet for a rookie. Watch out for the bucos, they are putting together a damn good staff.</div>I agree (if you read the other topic I listed him as my ROY) that Maholm is a stud. Him and Duke, if they can be retained, will be one hell of a duo in a couple years.--------------------Oh, and just an add on to answer your question.The reason I didn't say who I thought was better in the original messege was because I've found that doing so in player comparisons leads to people arguing with you to disprove your opinion rather than stating theirs.
Who cares about last season. That's not what matters. He got arrested for DUI, like I said in another post, but I'm sure he'll easily bounce back. He'll be in the starting rotation soon as we trade Lohse for Hank Blalock.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Apr 3 2006, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Who cares about last season. That's not what matters. He got arrested for DUI, like I said in another post, but I'm sure he'll easily bounce back. He'll be in the starting rotation soon as we trade Lohse for Hank Blalock.</div>Yeah, you're right. Why should we judge a pitcher not only on his most recent successes/failures but also on the sum of his career? Lol.And he'll be in the starting rotation as soon as one of the 5 pitchers better than him leaves the team... ok, him and Kyle Davies.
DAMN! I doubt you get the Twins game, but holy shit, I will stand by my prediction for Liriano being the best rookie no doubt. The guy has as good of stuff as Johan Santana. His fastball is 96+ mph, his changeup moves almost as much as Johan's, and he has a hard 91 mph slider that moves like crazy. He's pitched one inning so far, and he's struck out 2 batters. His stuff is nastier than www.rotten.com . Also, how did Maholm and Cain do in the WBC? Prob weren't even in it. Liriano was...and played great.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Apr 5 2006, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DAMN! I doubt you get the Twins game, but holy shit, I will stand by my prediction for Liriano being the best rookie no doubt. The guy has as good of stuff as Johan Santana. His fastball is 96+ mph, his changeup moves almost as much as Johan's, and he has a hard 91 mph slider that moves like crazy. He's pitched one inning so far, and he's struck out 2 batters. His stuff is nastier than www.rotten.com . Also, how did Maholm and Cain do in the WBC? Prob weren't even in it. Liriano was...and played great.</div>And I've seen my own cousin come in and saved Chris Carpenter from bases loaded with three straight strikeouts. It doesn't make him the next big thing.And Cain and Maholm are both American boys, not from a small island country, so of course they didn't get to play in the WBC.
Don't give me that. The DR team was BETTER than the American team, Liriano could've pitched for America just as easily.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Apr 6 2006, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't give me that. The DR team was BETTER than the American team, Liriano could've pitched for America just as easily.</div>And you could name 50 American pitchers who didn't make the team that could have made the DR team. America has so many pitchers it's insane, so the young unproven guys don't even have a shot. This is such a logical fallacy. Lol, if Lirilano was an American do you honestly think he'd have even come close to making the American team? He wouldn't have even made the 60 man roster.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Apr 6 2006, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Apr 6 2006, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't give me that. The DR team was BETTER than the American team, Liriano could've pitched for America just as easily.</div>And you could name 50 American pitchers who didn't make the team that could have made the DR team. America has so many pitchers it's insane, so the young unproven guys don't even have a shot. This is such a logical fallacy. Lol, if Lirilano was an American do you honestly think he'd have even come close to making the American team? He wouldn't have even made the 60 man roster.</div>Id love to see Liriano make the team over someone like Randy Johnson, Andy Pettitte, Tom Glavine, Roy Oswalt, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, ect.
Start a poll. Francisco Lirano vs Matt Cain vs Paul Maholm....don't really need stats, cause if they don't know baseball well enough, they shouldn't vote. We'll see who people like more here.By the way. I'm not trying to rip on Cain or Maholm. They are both great young pitchers, and will be very good for years to come. I just think Liriano will be better. No single player in the bigs is more valued than him right now. On the Twins game on Wedensday, the announcers said the Twins would not trade Liriano for any player in the majors. That's how much potential he has.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Apr 7 2006, 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Start a poll. Francisco Lirano vs Matt Cain vs Paul Maholm....don't really need stats, cause if they don't know baseball well enough, they shouldn't vote. We'll see who people like more here.By the way. I'm not trying to rip on Cain or Maholm. They are both great young pitchers, and will be very good for years to come. I just think Liriano will be better. No single player in the bigs is more valued than him right now. On the Twins game on Wedensday, the announcers said the Twins would not trade Liriano for any player in the majors. That's how much potential he has.</div>Lol, way to change the subject after being shut down.
I'm not changing the subject. Liriano is better than both of them. There's no doubt in my mind, I just wanna see how people would vote considering this whole thread has just been me and you talking.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Apr 7 2006, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Start a poll. Francisco Lirano vs Matt Cain vs Paul Maholm....don't really need stats, cause if they don't know baseball well enough, they shouldn't vote. We'll see who people like more here.By the way. I'm not trying to rip on Cain or Maholm. They are both great young pitchers, and will be very good for years to come. I just think Liriano will be better. No single player in the bigs is more valued than him right now. On the Twins game on Wedensday, the announcers said the Twins would not trade Liriano for any player in the majors. That's how much potential he has.</div>Felix hernandez?And announcers are dumb unless they are named steve stone. I can run off a huge list of players the twins would trade lirano for. Also lirano is in a better situation. Maholm and cain are both expected to be top of the rotation pitchers right now, while liriano is pitching out of the pen. but again that is just my 2 cents.
Liriano is better than "King Felix", Maholm, and Cain. All 3 of them will be good, but Liriano will be better. I out of all the pitchers in the league, he's in the top 10 for nastiest stuff. His pitches have soo much movement, and are all hard, it's sweet.
