This past week word out of Orlando was that if McGrady wouldn't agree to stay past next season - when he becomes a free agent - then he will be traded. McGrady has let those close to him know he is interested in playing for the Suns. The Suns know this and are ready to pounce should that opportunity present itself. Link Big article... According to this we want Kobe first and would be willing to give up Marion to the Magic should the chance to get McGrady arise. I say forget Kobe, and if we are going to get McGrady wait for FA and don't lose Marion to get him. Marion and AMAre is a forward combination that shouldnt be broken. JJ at point to MCGrady's 2? Maybe. The end of the article has a good point about egos. Kobe has made it clear he wants to lead a team, not play second fiddle, and we could easily imagine Amare feeiling the same way. Would McGrady be different? Who can see JJ one of the rookies and a draft pick going for MCGrady? What does everyone think Kerr will think of this... will he be less likekly to go for big contract FAs than the Colangelos? <font color="red"><font size="1">Edited by Dre.</font></font>
The end of the article has a good point about egos. Kobe has made it clear he wants to lead a team, not play second fiddle, and we could easily imagine Amare feeiling the same way. Would McGrady be different? Who can see JJ one of the rookies and a draft pick going for MCGrady? What does everyone think Kerr will think of this... will he be less likekly to go for big contract FAs than the Colangelos?
well, i would love to see mcgrady as a sun more than Kobe. Just think of this roster, mcgrady and stoudamre. that would/couldmake one hell of a duo. Sure mcgrady will sacrifice his numbers, but I don't think he minds winning team first rather than personal accomplishments. Now (i doubt it but..) if the suns get kobe and mcgrady...wow
I doubt the Kobe & McGrady, but it's not impossible. Both have been in situations the past two years that they were very unhappy with, and both have expressed an interest in playing in Phx. If ever there has been a chance to pick up <u>two</u> players of that caliber, now is that time. If there is anybody I wouldn't mind giving up Marion for, it is two-time scoring champion Tracy McGrady. The way to make the deals work is talk to both and make sure that both realize that they aren't coming over to boost their stats, they are coming to help the team win a title. Plus, make some sort of deal with TMac saying that he won't leave after his contract. If these deals go through, that would kick ass.
Wow that seems desperate!! They are willing to dismantle what they've been building for the possibility to be a hype team? I know Kobe and McGrady would make the media drool, but I'm not looking for a team that is media-friendly... I've seen the Lakers and Kings all over ESPN and it's not what I'm looking for, I want a good team like the Spurs who mind their business and win Championships. Besides most hype teams never pan out, look at the Magic when Hill/McGrady were supposed to win Championships. We're going to turn into the Magic if we trade Marion, JJ, Our 1st Rounder and probably Voskuhl for McGrady. We're banking too much on one player... whom by the way has proven unable to lead a team, but cries cause he never has help. Kobe/McGrady/Stoudemire won't work.... besides why is this guy claiming we'll be odds on favorite to win Championships? Who out of the 3 has won Championships? Only Kobe, and he did it with the best player in the league (Shaq). So I find it hasty to claim 2 perimeter players and a young Power Forward can make their way through the land of the Giants (Western Conference). We're still lacking a center and depth (if we give the Magic everybody we have). I like McGrady, he's flashy, he's a superstar, and it would be revenue to the Suns if nothing else... but I think Marion, JJ, 1st Rounder, and Voskuhl (or whoever the role player would be) can add to the team more than McGrady. You're giving them a near starting lineup for 1 player!! I was hoping the Suns would pick up perhaps Kobe, then work on getting Dampier, one of the foreigners (Okur/Ginobili/Giricek) and Brent Barry. Or some kind of system similar to that, no need to bring in 2 superstars and let 4 good players go, when we can meet NEEDS and build a team, rather than have 3 really great players!!
Anyone think we need OKur for his price or should we just resign Dice. My money is on Dice. I totally agree with Dampier and Barry (and have mentioned those names in earlier posts). They are who we need not Kobe or McGrady. This is why I asked about Kerr... does anyone think he'd get suckered into a megalo-team or does he want to build a team like his spurs or his bulls. I think Kerr might save us in this one. I must admit the backcourt of JJ and McGrady is a tempting thought. But under no circumstances will Kobe ever be cool by me. He's a malcontent that thinks he'll come over and make the suns his team. What would Amare have to say about that. Those two would be at war like he and Shaq are. McGrady's beef was not having any help, not having to share a team. He'd likely be content to le4t it be Amare's or someone else's team. Just because he has the talent doesn't mean he's cut out to be a leader. I'm fine with that. The big question is at what cost he's worth it. Surely not Marion (also max contract) a draft pick and Voshkul. Let's hope Gambo is wrong. Besides, wouldn't it make more sense to trade JJ since he's also the same position (not counting his combo guard duties)? I want neither, but given an inevitibility I'll take McGrady. Bad mojo this offseason. We have a clear path to good things (grab a center and a shooter, draft a developer, ditch useless contracts, and grow with talent we have) and then we get these two dollar sign temptations to ruin tossed at us. I'll take JJ over Kobe or McGrady because he's younger and he's every bit as utilitarian (in filling out catagories and moreso in spots on the floor), and if he were on the Magic his numbers would be higher (not that they need to be if you look at post trade stats only). Frustrating not to have a voice in what direction the suns are taken. If Kobe gets on I might not watch basketball for awhile, I dislike him that much. Ginobili or Giricek aren't really needed if Casey continues developing (and hopefully gets more offensive skills). Barbosa Vujanic JJ Barry Casey Marion Z Amare Dice Dampier Voshkul Lampe
If I were the suns, I would persue Kobe first ... they have a chance to get him through free agency, which would mean the Suns wouldn't have to give up any players or at the most, a minimal value in a sign-n-trade... If the suns were to go after McGrady first, I suspect they would have to give up a lot more because McGrady doesn't have the type of leverage that Kobe has (Lakers could inevitably lose him for nothing so they would be more inclined to take whatever they can...while McGrady is still under contract). McGrady and Kobe both on the Suns is out of the question. Both have huge egos. Don't forget why McGrady left Toronto in the first place. Stoudimire would never touch the ball. And most importantly, it would be bad for the NBA...because they would lose one of the better rivalries in the league
Shaq of old seems absent <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The word around the NBA is that McGrady is out of Orlando this summer. The combination of new management, the miserable season and McGrady's refusal to confirm whether he'd stay after next season (when he will be a free agent) has led Magic management to search for a deal. Expect it to be with the Suns, who are under new ownership and looking for a star to fill some seats. And that should work for McGrady, who'll need to assure the team he is sent to he'll sign. He'll do that with the Suns so he can play with Orlando buddy Amare Stoudemire, the big man he never could get with the Magic. It probably would take Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson and a No. 1 pick to get it done. But where were the Suns going with the team they've got?</div>
Joe Johnson is good but he is never going to be anywhere near T-Mac and Kobe. Half a season does not prove nething. look at eddy curry. if i am the suns i trade Shawn Marion and a throw in for T-Mac. Tracy and Joe can play together, both are playmakers before shooters . we forget that there was a time when T-Mac was considered a top notch defender, 2 blocks a game in 30 minutes of play in toronto. but in orlando he had to do so much. there were times when he would get double triple teamed throw a nice pass to one of his "Big" guys and they would fumble an open dunk or miss the layup. throw it to amare and its goin down. tracy and amare wont have problems amare has a lot of respect for tracy. Chance, tracy's lil brother and amare were great freinds. The suns also need a center, i am thinking throw in ur pick to denver for Nene or Marcus. The Western confrence is also losing some power, i wouldnt be surprised if Detroit and Indiana win the title.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">we forget that there was a time when T-Mac was considered a top notch defender, 2 blocks a game in 30 minutes of play in toronto</div> No he wasn't, he got blocks because he was atheletic and gambled a lot on defense, he's never been good. Don't be fooled by statistical defense, he'll block his man once then his man will score 6 other times, yay great D.
I'm not very high on McGrady... JJ may never be what McGrady is, but T-Mac won't ever be what Kobe is. Kobe is a complete player that doesn't cry because his team isn't good enough. Kobe is a much better defender and leader than T-Mac is -- plus on top of that they won't have to give up anybody to get Kobe, he'll be a Free Agent, so why bother with trying to get them both, when Kobe will be plenty... then they can work on getting role players, and a center. I know the T-Mac move is about getting fans in the seats, but I'm sure Kobe alone can do that in Phoenix (band-wagon city) due to the large Laker fan base already here awaiting to see Kobe every other night. Marion is one of the better defenders in the league right now, and he's a great teammate to have around that doesn't have T-Mac's "superstar" attitude, what happens when T-Mac isn't getting enough minutes, or points, or wins? He'll pull the same thing he's doing in Orlando. I still think trading for T-Mac is a bad move because what they'll have to give up isn't worth what they are getting.
there was an article posted in hoopshype that mentioned Amare's admiration of TMac and how he grew up with mcgrady's younger brother. Just thought I'd throw it out there. Why would we have to trade JJ Marion and a draft pick? Is McGrady really that worthwhile in the last year of a contract? It kinda is crappy to lose both JJ and Marion. I'm still against either McGrady or Kobe I guess, though I love watching McGrady play (seeing him pass out of a triple team is awesome as well as off balance guarded jumpers sinking). Kobe IS a whiner though. Don't forget he whined plenty about shaq and phil over the years. Payton's been the main Laker whiner lately (can't blame him and I do like him) though so it's drawn attention off Kobe's conference complaining.
Kobe has been complaining because he wants to leave LA. He's done it the past few years to get traded, and now to leave LA when he becomes a free agent. All the superstars have always had to complain and talk bad about management to get traded. Charles Barkley did it in Philly and later in Phoenix. It's the only way a team will get rid of a superstar.
I think the results of the Lakers/Spurs series is going to go a long way towards showing the validity of scorbutics and my own ideas on center/shooter vs. loading up on superstars for a good team. I think we have great rookies (though zarko needs to get his confidence back) killer forwards and an excellent shooting guard as it is. We'd be better off if Amare's is the only superstar ego to please (and he WILL be worth his salt whether it's sooner or later.) Though some would say Webber and stojakavic is a awesome pair and they certainly work well together... Dunno. We definitely don't need to load up on shooting guards.
oh yeah... hoopshype had an article (itr's gone now) saying McGrady was building a new home in orlando and was planning on staying... maybe the Suns trade business is only a threat to get another star into orlando.
I would have to agree that we don't need a star 2 guard. In my opinion JJ meshes much better with the system the suns run now. I would also argue that if he continues next year where he left off this year performance-wise he would become a star in his own right. My contension is we need a solid, fast, pass-first type of point guard. Basically only JJ can truly create for himself off of his own dribble, therefore we need a point who can lead the break, hit the cutter (Marion, McDyess, JJ), feed the post (Amare), penetrate and kick to the shooter (CJ, JJ), and still be able to create for himself. A good pick would be Jamal Tinsley, Jason Williams or Andre Miller. Now, don't get me wrong, I like Barbosa, but he still needs about two years to truly develop his raw talent as a point guard, if we continue to have him be our starter. But if we can get that solid point in here to guide him and be there to fix things when Leandro messes up, I think LB will be ready much sooner. Also, I regard Amare as a finisher with great feet under the basket, but his ability to be the go-to guy is still somewhat limited in terms of passing out of the double (although he has improved by leaps and bounds this year!) and becoming consistent with his jumper/face up. I think with a good point who can pick up that slack Amare wouldn't have to be the guy to create while everyone else stands around and watches. A good point could get it to him where he could score quickly. Anyway that's my two cents.
I LOVE T-Mac. He's my favorite player seriously (despite what it may say in my profile, i can't remember who I put). But I would rather see Kobe. T-Mac was just on a team where he was making all the points and now he goes to a team where he's got to pass the ball? I dunno how well he'd do that and seeing we'll have Marion and Stoudamire sittin there wanting the ball, not everyone will get much points on the board. Kobe on the other hand is on a team with all stars and isn't afraid to pass the ball bcuz he has confidence in them. In the same way he has confidence in himself.
The reports/rumors whatever you want to call them are saying that the Magic say Marion/JJ and 1st round pick are not enough and will not deal with the Suns unless Amare is involved.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">I want a good team like the Spurs who mind their business and win Championships. Besides most hype teams never pan out, look at the Magic when Hill/McGrady were supposed to win Championships. We're going to turn into the Magic if we trade Marion, JJ, Our 1st Rounder and probably Voskuhl for McGrady. We're banking too much on one player... whom by the way has proven unable to lead a team, but cries cause he never has help. Kobe/McGrady/Stoudemire won't work.... </div> Wow.. I've been laughed off two boards for saying this.. Glad to see someone actually follows the same thought process as me.. Just remember, when you have too many chefs and not enough table-setters, you have issues. Look at the Lakers this year.. Payton has been miserable, Kobe is talking about getting out as quickly as possible, and Malone's talking retirement. I don't know about any of you, but I surely don't want to go through a season of that.. Plus, take in to consideration two things. A) We have a relatively young team, with guys who are already stars (Amare) or future stars (Lampe, Milos, Barbosa).. Should we take on TWO max level contracts (You know darn well neither Kobe or McGrady are going to come to Phoenix for the Mid-Level exception), this limits the Suns when Amare and these other guys become free-agents. Personally, I say let the team as it is.. Marion is a quiet superstar.. He never gets nearly enough credit or recognition for his ability.. Guarantee you, if he played on an East Coast team like New York, he would be regarded as one of the best in the business.. Joe Johnson showed many signs of being, if nothing else, a solid, regular contributor for the team.. I say go after a couple of veterans at Center and PG.. Save up some of the money for when Amare becomes a free agent, and spend it that way. If they desire to get a gate-attraction, and a franchise player, use the money on one of the two.. Not both. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I was hoping the Suns would pick up perhaps Kobe, then work on getting Dampier, one of the foreigners (Okur/Ginobili/Giricek) and Brent Barry. Or some kind of system similar to that, no need to bring in 2 superstars and let 4 good players go, when we can meet NEEDS and build a team, rather than have 3 really great players!!</div> Agreed sir.. Agreed.. I'd LOVE to see Phoenix get Ginobli.. He's gritty, he's tough and he's a guy who would be a nice addition to the team.. However, I forsee him staying in San Antonio. As for Dampier/Okur, if their contract demands are right, I'd say go for it by all means..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Maldonado:</div><div class="quote_post">The reports/rumors whatever you want to call them are saying that the Magic say Marion/JJ and 1st round pick are not enough and will not deal with the Suns unless Amare is involved.</div> Wow, why not ask for Lampe, Barbosa, Vujanic and our next ten first round draft picks while their at it??? Forget it, I don't give a d@mn how good McGrady is.. Amare/Marion/JJ and a 1st Rounder for McGrady is rediculous...
