Charlie Rosen wrote a couple of pieces on the subject. Thought this might be a good conversation piece while we all wallow in the NBA offseason downtime. http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3885926 http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3882560 GP makes his list for overrated. Totally disagree. The past few years, his D isn't anwhere near where it was during his prime, but during his prime - the man was an animal. Best PG in the league for a while, and arguably for several more years. A guy I always thought didn't get quite the credit he deserved from the media/fans was Kevin Johnson. Just isn't mentioned often in the same sentence with other great PGs. Probably due to the lack of rings, but was phenomenal none the less.
Charley Rosen is the bitterest writer I have ever seen - I cannot stand his work. I like his bashing of David Robinson for having a limited offensive game - the guy only scored 71 in a game to wrap up a scoring title at 27ppg. Not bad for someone with only two moves. MJ win six rings and six finals MVPs - yet GP is criticised for not stopping him in the 95/96 finals. To be perfectly honest, I don't think MJ dominated that series like he had done many others, and Kemp was his equal. Most underrated Sonic: Ricky Pierce Most overrated Sonic: Can't really think of anyone here, no one from Seattle has gotten a lot of publicity. Most underrated overall: KJ (used to LOVE his game, he was amazing) Most overrated overall: Pat Ewing (well, I agree with Rosen here, although John Starks did cost him a ring)
Just a postscript on KJ - he actually registered a triple double in the first half of an NBA game. That is amazing.
His lines on Payton and Robinson are just stupid. Payton was a score 1st pg.....ok pretty much yeah but he was willing to pass when he had teamates. He was put in with horrible rosters during the prime of his career and was forced to take alot of shots. But I guess I can see why GP doesnt deserve his 9 time all defensive team award....I mean MICHAEL JORDAN had some good games in the finals against him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coolguy777:</div><div class="quote_post">His lines on Payton and Robinson are just stupid. Payton was a score 1st pg.....ok pretty much yeah but he was willing to pass when he had teamates. He was put in with horrible rosters during the prime of his career and was forced to take alot of shots. But I guess I can see why GP doesnt deserve his 9 time all defensive team award....I mean MICHAEL JORDAN had some good games in the finals against him.</div> Yeah, that's pretty funny that Rosen's only proof that GP was a bad defender was in the Finals against one of the best teams ever to play basketball. This guy is a joke, his assessment of Karl Malone is off too I believe. Sure you can attribute alot of his success to playing with Stockton but the man still scored in the post frequently, he was fantastic at setting picks, and did everything fundamentally sound. Plus, this guy looks like George Carlin...George Carlin doesn't know anything about basketball.
I was actually going to say that McAdoo was missing from his underrated list until I saw him on the overrated list. Plus the Iceman was one of my favorite players, and anyone who's ever read 'Foul' would never say the Hawk was overrated... The only one I'd semi-agree with is Patick Ewin' (as Kemp used to call him)...for a fearsome defender he'd sure bite on pump fakes a lot.
i did something like this when i first joined <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">here are my top 15 underappreciated squad. STARTING 5 C-Bill Russell - Ok, so you know him, but did you know that experts say that if they counted blocks in his day he may have averaged a triple double. If you don't think he is the best C of all time he is underrated. PF-Connie Hawkins - If he wasn't blackballed in his prime you would know him. get your learn on. SF-Bernard King - injuries ruined his career. the most underrated player in history. SG- Adrian Dantley - "Adrian Who?" Exactly! PG-Oscar Robertson - "Hi. I am the best point gaurd of all time. How in the HELL am I not on your list!" f Chet Walker - 7 all-star appearances and you have never heard of him. Alex English - Yea, that's right. Wake up and smell the English. Terry Cummings - Sometimes you don't make it back from injury c Jack Sikma - you would be surprised how many people have never heard of him. Alonzo Mourning - Never mentioned on lists of great centers. WHY?!?! He lost a freakin kidney. Mark Eaton - 456 blocks in 82 games. Do the math. His job was to block shots. g World B. Free Nate Archibald Pete Maravich Kevin Johnson Honorable mention; Jeff Hornacek, Chris Mullin, Dale Ellis, Nate Thurmond, Tim Hardaway</div> Edit: for this to make sense, you will need to know it was in reply to this guys post. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Best Ever 15 Whats your 15 man sqaud that you would make out of any eras player? Heres mine: STARTING 5 C-Shaquelle Oneal PF-Larry Bird SF-Julias Erving SG-Michael Jordan PG-Magic Johnson C-Bill Russell C-Wilt Chamberlin C-Kareem Abdul Jabber PF-Charles Barkley PF-Tim Duncan SF-Scottie Pippen SG-Kobe Bryant SG-Clyde Drexler PG-Bob Cousy PG-Isiah Thomas Who just missed out: John Stockton, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Kevin Garnett, Jerry West, Karl Malone, Earl Monroe</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Most underrated Sonic: Ricky Pierce Most overrated Sonic: Can't really think of anyone here, no one from Seattle has gotten a lot of publicity.</div> Most underrated Sonic: Ricky Pierce gets the nod from me as well Most overrated Sonic: Almost have to give the nod to Jerome James
Charlie Rosen is one of the most bitter writers I've ever seen. I remember an article that he wrote like this in the beginning of last season about the current overrated/underrated players in the game and the most underrated player in the league in his mind was Gordon Giricek. His overrated honorable mention had about every All-Star in the league not named Tim Duncan. That says enough right there about Rosen. Interesting that he would bring up Payton as getting torched by Mike in the '96 Finals when he only guarded Jordan games 4-6. We went down 0-3 b/c George Karl thought that we'd be better suited taking away Jordan's post ability by putting Detlef on him. We won two out of the three games that Payton guarded Jordan and his Finals average in that series was the worst of the 6 Finals that he played in. I actually thought that Rodman was going to get the MVP that season. Payton definitely does not belong with the most overrated players in the game. Had he not had the seasons that he had the last two years I would have said that he was the best point guard since Magic but now I'm starting to lean toward Stockton since he was more productive at 40 than Payton was at 35. My most overrated player of all time might be the Admiral or maybe even Kevin Garnett. Doesn't mean that they aren't very good players, but I don't think that either one of them can be counted on in big games (in the case of Robinson when he was a first option) --and considering their contracts and their reputations production in crunch time shouldn't be questioned. I would also put Pippen in their as well in terms of being vastly overrated. My most underrated players of all time would include Dumars, Andrian Dantley, Mark Price, and definitely Andrew Toney. There aren't too many underrated post players outside of Tim Duncan and Moses Malone. Maybe I'd include the original "Big Dog" Antione Carr in this list as well. Most overrated Sonic: Hersey Hawkins Most underrated Sonic: Derrick McKey
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Most overrated Sonic: Hersey Hawkins Most underrated Sonic: Derrick McKey</div> DUDE! . . . dude? you are hatin on the hawk? ouch. Most overrated Sonic: *Shawn Kemp Most underrated Sonic: Big Smooth [*not because he wasn't great, just not as great as people seem to remember. Spectacular dunks go a long way in peoples memories]
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Odd24:</div><div class="quote_post">SF-Bernard King - injuries ruined his career. the most underrated player in history. </div> One of my all time favorite players - used to terrorize Boston and McHale. Hell at 6-6 he used to post up McHale and shoot that lightning quick turnaround or that jump hook. Back to back 50pt games. And a pretty good passer. D and rebounding just OK but also one of the best finishers in the game at the time. Then he wrecked his knee going for a block in some meaningless game...that was about it even though he came back and made the All-Star team he was still only a shell of what he was. His brother King Albert could've been as good but he was mentally too soft. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">My most underrated players of all time would include Dumars, Andrian Dantley, Mark Price, and definitely Andrew Toney. There aren't too many underrated post players outside of Tim Duncan and Moses Malone.</div> I used to love Toney 'The Boston Strangler' (sensing a trend here? ). Pull-up in your grill or take it hard to the hole. DJ could do nothing with him. He and Cheeks were the best guard tandem at the time and got Doc his ring (along with Moses )
Most overrated Sonic: Xavier McDaniel Most underrated Sonic: Derrick McKey Don't get me wrong, X-man was a very good inside scorer and offered some toughness, but he played out of control and was erratic defensively, and of course not much of an outside shot, not much of a passer, and foul-prone. he was a lot of fun to watch, which put him on ESPN almost every game in his prime. McKey had an underrated offensive game, partly because he looked rather awkward with the ball, but he was a pretty decent scorer. Great man to man and team defense, inside and outside.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Odde24:</div><div class="quote_post"> Most overrated Sonic: *Shawn Kemp</div> I toyed with putting him as well - his jumper was never as reliable as it could have been, his defense wasn't that fundamentally sound, and he lacked the killer footwork that most post greats have. However, he was just ridiculously athletic - he didn't get found out of D a lot because he could jump to block just about anything, and so quickly too (could jump twice before a normal player had finished jumping once). Offensively, there was no all-oop he couldn't catch, and no person he couldn't jump over. But as far as actual game went, he didn't have as much natural ability as a lot of guys. Closest thing I have seen to him in terms of an explosive big man is McDyess before his knees went.
That's like saying Tim Duncan is overrated because he's not as athletic as Shawn Kemp. They both dominated with what they had. PS - I'm not saying Kemp was as good as Duncan is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">Closest thing I have seen to him in terms of an explosive big man is McDyess before his knees went.</div> How about Amare? As far as X-man, I love that one handed tomahawk dunk he had against the Knicks (?) and he gets fouled and just stares nose to nose with the dude he dunked over. It was probably only Louis Orr or someone like that, though I think Chambers was probably more overrated than X when he played with us... McKey was just a big tease, IMO. Even Magic said after that first game he played against the Lakers they all thought he was going to be a star 'and then look what happened'. I don't know how many times he pass up that open 12 footer, take a slow dribble into the lane with his man 5 ft off him and float a pass to Gary or Det or whoever it was at the time.
