There's an interesting article over at ESPN.com. I don't agree with all his points (being "patriotic" and giving a flip about Team USA winning are two different things, IMO), but I do think there's an undercurrent of racism amidst all the hostility Americans have towards NBA players. And, in particular, the NBA players underperforming in the Olympics. "That they're millionaires AND black is bad enough, but then they also are struggling against other countries in the one thing they're supposed to be good at! Embarassing!" Now, I know people don't straight out think that, but I think stuff like that is going on in the back of their minds. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...whitlock/040826 Read and Discuss.
Dude makes some excellent points, but then we have always been hypocrites when it comes to basketball. Tennis players leave school early to play ball, no one has a problem with baseball players not going to college, gymnastics, etc. I agree something about being black and fabulously wealthy makes a certain segment of the population...uneasy. Especially since they play a sport so some people think that basketball players owe them something and that they should act a certain way, dress a certain way, etc. There is definately strong undercurrents of race present, everyone loved John McEnroe but let a black basketball player or football player blow up like he used to do all the time and they would be labeled a spoiled, whiney, rich disgrace to their sport. So many people are resentful or angry about those who play a game for a living and make millions of dollars, but that is capitalism my friends, they are payed according to their market value, they make the team owners lots of money, that is the society we live in, dont hate on the players for being a part of it. These same people aren't wailing about ceo's who play golf all day and pull in millions and then turn around and screw the workers of the company out of their pension funds. Good article folks, got me started : )
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mgmib:</div><div class="quote_post">Dude makes some excellent points, but then we have always been hypocrites when it comes to basketball. Tennis players leave school early to play ball, no one has a problem with baseball players not going to college, gymnastics, etc.</div> Exactly. For some reason, its a sign of irresponsibility when black kids choose not to go to college, but its common in many white-dominated sports. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So many people are resentful or angry about those who play a game for a living and make millions of dollars, but that is capitalism my friends, they are payed according to their market value, they make the team owners lots of money, that is the society we live in, dont hate on the players for being a part of it. These same people aren't wailing about ceo's who play golf all day and pull in millions and then turn around and screw the workers of the company out of their pension funds.</div> Yep. It so happens that physical talent and athleticism is a highly valued commodity in USA basketball. Its not young black kids who determine that -- its rich NBA owners and marketing people. But even back in the day, "raw talent" was highly valued. Hakeem Olajuwon or Clyde Drexler, for instance, had "raw talent" coming out of college, but transformed themselves into highly skilled players in only a few years. But players like that are very special and hard to come by. Nowadays, teams are focused too much on drafting potential, high-flying superstars with undeveloped skills instead of drafting good, solid players. Don't blame that on the kids getting drafted -- blame the teams that pick them up.
The reason the NBA isn't as popular as baseball or football is because the farm boy from Indiana, the kid from Applachian Country, or that kid from Montana who shoots hoops in the driveway aren't making it to the pro level in this certain sport. Gramps watches the NBA today with his son and the NBA today is basketball that they don't recognize. Gone are Jerry Lucas, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Steve Mix, Rudy Tomjanovich, Billy Cunningham, Rick Barry and the like. They have been replaced with Peja Stojakovich, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, and Manu Ginobili. Meanwhile, city/urban kids (read: black/latino) from New York, New Jersey, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Texas, and California that play AAU and in summer tourneys under the RBK, Nike or adidas banner are entering colleges with the intent to play until they're good enough to go pro. The individualism, concentration on breaking down opponents off the dribble and one on one play completely turn off an entire section of the American populace. Add the phrases color commentator use when describing an unathletic white player "Look at him hustle!" "That's a heady play!" "He screens off the defender here and here he takes the charge....what a smart player!". Think of all of the phrases that are used with athletic black players! I was pissed off to see that immeadiately after the US team lost to Puerto Rico a white female news anchor say "It was a bad idea to have Allen Iverson at captain, huh?". I shrugged it off thinking "What does she know?". That midnight the Boston Herald came out with the front page headline "OLYMPIC FIASCO" next to a full color picture of Allen Iverson! I remember Shaq being the best player in the NCAA...he lost every accolade to Christain Laettner. I remember Danny Fortson being the most dominant player in college basketball...he lost EVERY cover to Wojo from Duke!! The "longshoreman's son from Annapolis" who didn't even score in double digits and had no shot to play pro....not EVEN overseas! I could go on all day but I'm sure you all have more to say on the subject. The NBA does NOT want to alienate Middle America or the Bible Belt with the product they put out....TOO LATE. The new face of the NBA is bald, faded, cornrowed, dreaded up, tattoed and pierced. Deal with it, it's 2004. One.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GrnDynsty:</div><div class="quote_post">I remember Shaq being the best player in the NCAA...he lost every accolade to Christain Laettner.</div> This is a sign of racism how? Not only did Laettner's team do far better than LSU during their head to head matchups Laettner owned Shaq. One can make a case for Laettner as the best college player ever,same can't be said of Shaq. No way in the world did Shaq deserve that award over Laettner. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I remember Danny Fortson being the most dominant player in college basketball...he lost EVERY cover to Wojo from Duke!! The "longshoreman's son from Annapolis" who didn't even score in double digits and had no shot to play pro....not EVEN overseas!</div> The point of awards and 'covers' for college players has nothing to do with them being able to translate to the pro game. College basketball is all about the team,not the individual. Wojo was an excellent college player and an excellent leader as well. I think you misunderstand the college game as a whole to try and use this as an example of some form of racial discrimination by the media etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GrnDynsty:</div><div class="quote_post">The reason the NBA isn't as popular as baseball or football is because the farm boy from Indiana, the kid from Applachian Country, or that kid from Montana who shoots hoops in the driveway aren't making it to the pro level in this certain sport. Gramps watches the NBA today with his son and the NBA today is basketball that they don't recognize. Gone are Jerry Lucas, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Steve Mix, Rudy Tomjanovich, Billy Cunningham, Rick Barry and the like. They have been replaced with Peja Stojakovich, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, and Manu Ginobili. Meanwhile, city/urban kids (read: black/latino) from New York, New Jersey, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Texas, and California that play AAU and in summer tourneys under the RBK, Nike or adidas banner are entering colleges with the intent to play until they're good enough to go pro. The individualism, concentration on breaking down opponents off the dribble and one on one play completely turn off an entire section of the American populace. Add the phrases color commentator use when describing an unathletic white player "Look at him hustle!" "That's a heady play!" "He screens off the defender here and here he takes the charge....what a smart player!". Think of all of the phrases that are used with athletic black players! I was pissed off to see that immeadiately after the US team lost to Puerto Rico a white female news anchor say "It was a bad idea to have Allen Iverson at captain, huh?". I shrugged it off thinking "What does she know?". That midnight the Boston Herald came out with the front page headline "OLYMPIC FIASCO" next to a full color picture of Allen Iverson! I remember Shaq being the best player in the NCAA...he lost every accolade to Christain Laettner. I remember Danny Fortson being the most dominant player in college basketball...he lost EVERY cover to Wojo from Duke!! The "longshoreman's son from Annapolis" who didn't even score in double digits and had no shot to play pro....not EVEN overseas! I could go on all day but I'm sure you all have more to say on the subject. The NBA does NOT want to alienate Middle America or the Bible Belt with the product they put out....TOO LATE. The new face of the NBA is bald, faded, cornrowed, dreaded up, tattoed and pierced. Deal with it, it's 2004. One.</div> Thanks for the post. You're probably right that middle america has been alienated by pro-basketbal to some extent -- and race is likely a large factor in that. But do the kids from poor, urban black communities who play basketball everyday focus too much on flashy one on one moves and dunks, as opposed to playing team basketball? And if so, why is that, and is it a good or bad thing? This is off-topic, but I noticed you on some other boards. You make CAPs for NBA Live games, correct? I just wanted to know if you use the default sliders that come with the game, or if you customize those as well. If you have your own customizations, I'd like to know what they are. I read your approach to how you come up with CAPs for players on an EASports board, and it was very interesting.
There is no doubt that race plays a huge role in how many Americans feel about the NBA. It's a shame because the minority population doesn't get upset about the dispropotionalities in the other sports. We just understand that we have to work even harder to break the barriers. It almost seems as if people feel like the NBA is discriminating against white players; which is totally bs. White athletes have just as much opportunity to make it in the NBA as blacks. Blacks, even today, don't necessarily have those same opportunities in other sports.
It may be more than race that alienates a segment of the white population, expecially the older whites. There is a new culture that goes along with it--hip hop, having a posse, using different slang, sounding different, playing a more athletic one-on-one style, etc, may add to that disconnection. I believe that it's more than racism, but racism is an important factor. A white street player won't be the darling of middle america. For example, Jason Kidd isn't a big favorite of whites as far as I know (no more than vince carter,) and he's street.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting grumpyd:</div><div class="quote_post">It may be more than race that alienates a segment of the white population, expecially the older whites. There is a new culture that goes along with it--hip hop, having a posse, using different slang, sounding different, playing a more athletic one-on-one style, etc, may add to that disconnection. I believe that it's more than racism, but racism is an important factor. A white street player won't be the darling of middle america. For example, Jason Kidd isn't a big favorite of whites as far as I know (no more than vince carter,) and he's street.</div> Jason Kidd is white? I'm sure he's at least a mix. I agree its not just race. Its the whole urban, hip-hop culture as a whole. White people for the most part love Tiger Woods, Magic Johnson, and Michael Jordan as far as I can tell. Because they talk and behave like non-threatening guys from the 'burbs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd is white? I'm sure he's at least a mix</div> Yes...His Dad was African American,and His Mother was White..saw an interview with Kidd years ago,and they showed his family and his background. Getting to the Race Issue here...I Think that the folks that don't care for the NBA because of the race thing is pretty stupid.so what if a majority of the players is this color and that color.the bottom line for me is color doesn't really matter,but to some people it does. :thumbsdow All sports are pretty much multi-ethnical now,and hey everybody must fight for a spot on their respectiv sports teams,wheiter you are Black or White. I Agree with Iron Shiek about White's crying Foul over being discrimnated upon.everybody has the same oppturnities as every one,so being a White person i agree with that statement. The Race issue will always be brought up...as long as the Media wants it to be a "Hot Topic"
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The criticism of USA Basketball is borderline racist, is definitely unsophisticated and exposes a lot of super patriots as hypocrites. Allen Iverson is wearing our jersey -- our red, white and blue -- and playing the game the way we taught him to play it. We owe Iverson support when he's representing us abroad. Save the hatred for when he's back home skipping Sixers practices and boring us to death playing a two-man game with Glenn Robinson.</div> How true. But expectations are high for this team. They were put together a few weeks before the Olympics. They were the few ones who accepted the invitation while others declined. Don't get me wrong, I still expect them to dominate just out of pure talent. But there are so many things wrong with this team. Most of them we can't blame on the players themselves.
That is so true... silent discrimination.. i could feel it sometimes... this issue about US white folks upset at black NBA athletes is infuriating. the color doesnt matter in sports. in fact the color doesnt matter in everything. it's the players determination to be the best in their field of sports that really counts. these players gave up their valuable time for the olympics. they could have been vacationing in the Bahamas for all they care. but still they sacrificed their time and even ran the risk of injuries for their country. tsk tsk its a shame to see the way they are being treated....
Jason Kidd is bi-racial. If he were actually to grow his hair it would be an afro. Look at some games of him at Cal or early in Phoenix or Dallas. The race issue will always be there it'll never go away because people blacks/whites are too stubborn to let it just go away. The game ( the NBA game has just changed too much). Back in the 50's Indiana was the basketball mecha. White people would put up goals on a plot of land or on the front of a barn, and just shoot jump shots all day. Now basketball mechas are any streetball court. There a few people, and this is blacks/whites alike that actually practice the fundamentals of the game. It's all about flash, and if you can make someone fall down with some innane between the legs move that's a travel and then some in a regular game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">There's an interesting article over at ESPN.com. I don't agree with all his points (being "patriotic" and giving a flip about Team USA winning are two different things, IMO), but I do think there's an undercurrent of racism amidst all the hostility Americans have towards NBA players. And, in particular, the NBA players underperforming in the Olympics. "That they're millionaires AND black is bad enough, but then they also are struggling against other countries in the one thing they're supposed to be good at! Embarassing!" Now, I know people don't straight out think that, but I think stuff like that is going on in the back of their minds. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...whitlock/040826 Read and Discuss.</div> ya i have to agree on some points but i think there giving an effort. the problem is we dont got our best men playing, i think if you play in the nba, and your one of the best you should play in the olympics and play for your team by you saying no i dont want to its like saying to the millions of fans, ILL PLAY FOR YOUR MONEY, BUT NOT FOR YOUR COUNTRY and OUR NATIONAL PRIDE so to players like shaq and kg. i just think shame on u i mean i understand when you do have problems like kobe court cases and kidds knee problems so i say shame on you and rock on our olympians do your best
It's like this on the black and white thing. How many white AMERICAN players are a significant part of thier teams? I'm talkin starting lineup and all. The only one that comes to my mind for the current NBA is Jason Williams. There's probably more but I can't think of any. The thing is that, as someone said before, the mecca of basketball is now the streetball courts and all and the reason less and less white players are making it to the NBA is due to, I believe, confidence in themselves, more so then skills. There are plenty of white basketball players in the NCAA but to be in the NBA, and to be a SIGNIFICANT part of your team, or to be a star, you not only got to have skills, you also gotta have confidence and attitude. Think of the white susperstars of the past. Larry Bird had the confidence and attitude to succeed more then 97% of the black athetles of his time. John Stockton didn't necessairly have to do this, he just let his game speak for itself but to do that you got to have a lot of confidence first of all. Now a days, its like if you cant do a 360-bounce-on-the-head cross-over, you're not good. That's the mentality on most of the streetball courts. You gotta make your opponent look stupid. And that's wrong. I just feel that the reason there's less white american playerrs in the NBA due to a lack of confidence. Many of them have the skills to surpass black athelets because the majority of them play the game the fundamental way but I think they feel like "what are the chances of me making it?" and just giveup on themselves. That may not be true with every player, but the fact there there aren't any white guys on the USA team period speaks for itself. It's true that those players had every right to be there, because they are all superstars in thier own right but do you think the media would have wrote the things they wrote if the whole team USA team was all-white? Just think of that. And that answers the whole race issue.
Racism is totally unacceptable ...Its prbably common in the US in the communitys outside basketball...But to be onest and im not stiring but it seems to me that Black people are better athelites..Think of Athelics-100 metres is dominated by black people same with basketball..Im white and i can accept that but there is lots in USA that dont .
There is no racism in basketball lets be for real with ourselfs if a white great player came along he would be accepted maybe its me being to close minded but i personally belive that if your white or black if you have the skillz to play you can play the olympic squad offered white players the oppurtunity to play like bibby and j kidd. This squad may have been made solely of black players but it WASNT based on racesim it was based on STAR players and we are now seeing that it was wrong to base a team solely on star players. So get that racesim card outta here this isnt politics this is basketball if u can play u can play racesim aint nothing
The only good white players atm are Dirk Nowitzki,Jason Williams,Peja Stojakovic,Wally Szerbiack isn't bad. There are few black players save maybe Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan that can shoot the ball as well as a white player can.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JKiDD05NeTs:</div><div class="quote_post">The only good white players atm are Dirk Nowitzki,Jason Williams,Peja Stojakovic,Wally Szerbiack isn't bad. There are few black players save maybe Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan that can shoot the ball as well as a white player can.</div> that is hands down one of the dumbest things i have ever heard have you ever heard of shawn marioan, micheal redd, ray allen, kenny smith, reggie miller, and i can go on and on
Shawn Marion can't shoot. You been watching the Olympics? Most black players aren't good shooters. They are what I call streaky. Reggie Miller,Michael Redd are exceptions.
