<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>In a downsized, miniaturized world gone mad, the NBA finally, inevitably, has come to the party. Forgoing an ages-old mantra that you can't teach size, the Chicago Bulls, barring any late theatrics, appear poised to select University of Memphis freshman point guard Derrick Rose -- all 6 feet, 2 1/2 inches of him -- first overall in Thursday night's draft. It's a selection that would both contradict decades of NBA draft history and illustrate the influence of young point guards such as New Orleans' Chris Paul and Utah's Deron Williams in a changing game where, because of NBA rules changes and interpretations, a little man now can reign. Only one guard -- Allen Iverson in 1996 -- has been selected No. 1 overall since the Los Angeles Lakers in 1979 took Magic Johnson, and he was a 6-9 point guard. Time and again, size has trumped all on draft night. Sometimes, history will show, it's for good reason. Sometimes, not: Andrew Bogut and Marvin Williams over Deron Williams and Paul in 2005. Michael Olowokandi over Mike Bibby in 1998. Glenn Robinson over Jason Kidd in 1994. Derrick Coleman over Gary Payton in 1990. Mark Aguirre over Isiah Thomas in 1981. "Bigs," Timberwolves Vice President of Basketball Operations Kevin McHale said, describing the league's historical draft preferences. "And biggers." Little becomes big</div> Star Tribune
I'm getting a little queasy about the Rose pick. He's awfully small and his college assist numbers aren't much better than Hinrich's or Gordon's (roughly 4.5/game). Beasley, Gordon, and Deng make a very nice 1-2-3 scoring punch, and it seems like Hinrich can finally be stuck at the PG position for good, assuming the Bulls take Beasley. This draft so reminds me of the Brand/Francis dilemma a few years back. At the time, I would have taken Francis, the Bulls took Brand. Neither panned out for the Bulls, but over the long haul, Francis is done and Brand may have a few years left at a very high level. Big vs. Small, too. You can't teach height.
LOL, I just made another post noting that Beasley, Gordon, Deng would be an excellent scoring 1-2-3 trio... Rose isn't small though. He's about 6'3" in shoes, which is above average size for a PG. Beasley is a tad undersized at the 4, but his skill set is incredible, which is why I think I prefer him... Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Beasley, Noah looks like a potentially potent lineup. We'd have Thabo and Thomas off the bench for defense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 25 2008, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We do have Larry Hughes, who is a very good SG.</div> What's he good at?
A couple thoughts 1. Rank where Hughes is among NBA SGs. I'd think "very good" would put him in the top third or so, and I'd put him in the bottom third or so of starters. 2. How in particular did Rose measure out poorly compared to most of the successfull PGs out there? He seemed pretty comparable to guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul. 3. I'm really torn on Beasley. He looks so obviously can't miss, but you really have to wonder why a guy like Pat Riley is going to pass on him then. He's not a guy who can't deal with personality, so I have to think he must really have a screw loose if Riley doesn't want him. 4. The flip side of that is maybe OJ Mayo is really that crazily good. He hasn't really shown it on the court or off, but people really seem to be in love with the guy. 5. Those two guys are making this a very hard draft for me to figure out since I don't know how to explain why one seems beloved and the other is feared.
How many SGs with a career scoring average of ~15PPG have averaged 3.3 APG and have made first team All-Defense? Yeah, I think he's had a few down years in a row, but I also think that's to do with between his ears and how he was fucked with in Cleveland and then here.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 25 2008, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How many SGs with a career scoring average of ~15PPG have averaged 3.3 APG and have made first team All-Defense? Yeah, I think he's had a few down years in a row, but I also think that's to do with between his ears and how he was fucked with in Cleveland and then here.</div> Cleveland really screwed him with that $60M+ contract and wanting him to play a little PG.
Right on both counts. The $60M contract set huge expectations for him, and playing PG is out of position - he was quite unhappy about it. The guy played quite well next to Arenas. Maybe you'd think that playing next to LeBron would be similar, but it clearly wasn't. He sure got ~5 less shots a game in Cleveland and the only real offensive threat in the back court. Maybe you'd think he got up for his contract season, but I'd point out he was on a nice upward trend for three seasons in Washington.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 25 2008, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right on both counts. The $60M contract set huge expectations for him, and playing PG is out of position - he was quite unhappy about it. The guy played quite well next to Arenas. Maybe you'd think that playing next to LeBron would be similar, but it clearly wasn't. He sure got ~5 less shots a game in Cleveland and the only real offensive threat in the back court. Maybe you'd think he got up for his contract season, but I'd point out he was on a nice upward trend for three seasons in Washington.</div> Yea, he was a better player in washington. I think ~5 less shots per game was justified considering how he was shooting. The worse you are consistently shooting the less shots a player should take.
He is probably the 18-20th best out of 30 in terms of starting SGs. (Jones, Jaric, Green, Mo Pete, Stevenson, Brewer, Mobley, Devin Brown, Mo Evans, Raja Bell, Anthony Parker?, Dunleavy?)
In terms of pure SGs (in scoring order): 1. Kobe 2. KMartin 3. Ginobili 4. Ben Gordon 5. Ray Allen 6. Rip 7. Mobley 8. Willie Green 9. Hughes In APG order: 1. Kobe 2. Ginobli 3. Rip 4. Hughes In SPG order: 1. Kobe 2. Ginobili 3. Hughes Probably near the bottom at pts/FGA
I was using this website: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/depth Because I thought we were comparing starting SGs. If comparing 'Pure SGs', I guess you could argue that Hughes isn't, because he played primarily as PG for Cleveland. Especially if you don't consider Vince Carter, J-Rich and Michael Redd on your list of pure SGs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Jun 25 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I was using this website: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/depth Because I thought we were comparing starting SGs. If comparing 'Pure SGs', I guess you could argue that Hughes isn't, because he played primarily as PG for Cleveland. Especially if you don't consider Vince Carter, J-Rich and Michael Redd on your list of pure SGs.</div> That makes no sense. Redd's as pure as they come, when it comes to SGs.
Michael Redd: http://www.82games.com/0708/07MIL5C.HTM He played 15% of Milwaukee's minutes at SF (Yahoo lists him as G/F) I'm using Hughes' stats for the Bulls, where he played SG (0% of the minutes at PG)
