It's only a disappointment because there were a few pontential moves that could have been made, and weren't for whatever reason. But the taste in my mouth from watching this team, this season, is unsavory. It's not just that they haven't "turned it around," it's more because I'm not so sure it can be completely "turned around." Granted, the Warriors have some nice pieces, plenty of youth, a great fan-base, and a few "stars" in Baron and Jrich (I use that term loosely), but they aren't scaring anybody. Even if they flirt with the playoffs, their poor fundamentals, lack of ball movement, lack of movement without the ball, and defensive lapses, all equate to inconsistency. They'll tempt you at times when they put on a good show, but the type of production they get doesn't seem sustainable. You just never know. I'd be floored if they sustained good defense for a 2 or 3 game stretch, let alone a 7-game playoff series. I like the "core," and it would be great to see JRich, Baron, and Troy emerge as a dominant trio in the league. -- But even then -- ask yourself, is that enough? With Foyle saddling this team down like a pair of cowboy boots on an Olympic swimmer; with Derek Fisher set to deprive Monta Ellis of valuable minutes for years to come; Armed with only one player who takes pride in defense, and accepting that this player (Pietrus) will probably be leaving shortly; And without a single player -- not a one! -- who is seriously tough inside (Ike's game has looked good at times but, with Troy still here, I wonder when and, more importanly, if, Ike Diogu will ever play enough to a] develop toughness and consistency inside b] even become a factor at all); I just don't feel this team has what it takes. * I hope Baron regains his form after injury and takes this team over * I hope Mike Montgomery has enough balls to play Monta Ellis over Derek Fisher * I hope Chris Mullin has enough balls to fire Mike Montgomery if he doesn't play Monta Ellis over Derek Fisher * I hope Andris Biedrins hits the weights and protein shakes and is somehow able to add a substantial amount of muscle to his frame * I hope Biedrins is then able to assert himself as the dominant center on this team, and a legitimate starter in the league * I hope Mike Montgomery has the bals to bench Adonal Foyle * I hope Chris Mullin has the balls to fire Mike Montgomery if he doesn't bench Foyle * I hope Chris Cohan has the balls to fire Mullin if he doesn't somehow find some kind of way to somehow get rid of the horrific error that is the Adonal Foyle contract * I hope Someone buys this team from Chris Cohan * I hope Dunleavy somehow proves he's worth, oh, I dunno, half of what he gets paid * I hope I'm just being delusional and that Mullin will actually be able to find a way to retain Pietrus * I hope I'm just being pessimistic and that Mullin will actually be able to retain any of his rookies - given the financial corner he's backed himself into -- should any of them become good enough to warrant getting paid I wish the Warriors had made a damn trade.
And don't ask me which one -- I already posted about 20 ideas on my other thread. More importantly, I don't give a crap which one. I just wanted to turn on KNBR this afternoon and hear a Warrior trade -- ANY Warrior trade -- on the sports update instead of women's figure skating, dammit
This was a great read (I actually suggest that you tighten up some of the screws on this bad boy and try and post it as an opinion piece for the front page). I've always been high on Troy Murphy, and I'm extremely optimistic about Ike Diogu. I'm an not, however, thinking that Andris Biedrins will be able to respond to either of your 'hopes,' although there's no doubt in my mind that he has the potential to. I don't know much about the Warriors' management or Monta Ellis, so I look forward to learning more about the team during my stay on JBB.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't give a crap which one. I just wanted to turn on KNBR this afternoon and hear a Warrior trade -- ANY Warrior trade -- on the sports update instead of women's figure skating, dammit</div> I know exactly how you feel, although more so when I follow the Mariners (our biggest deadline move over the past few years was for Armando Benitez, for crying out loud).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bravest:</div><div class="quote_post">I know exactly how you feel, although more so when I follow the Mariners (our biggest deadline move over the past few years was for Armando Benitez, for crying out loud).</div> Thanks for the compliment, bravest BTW, I kinda know how you feel -- my San Francisco Giants watched Armando Benitez tear his achilles and be a non-factor all of last year
I guess this makes Armando an overall dissapointment, hmm? But it's funny, the year after leaving Seattle (and the year beforing entering SanFran) he comes out of nowhere to post a 1.29 ERA, 6.9 SO/9, and 47 saves. It puts his 2005 line to complete shame.
What possible trades were actually available? I don't blame Mullin at all for not trading, its understandable that the fans want to do better but there just arent any trades available that would improve our team. Murphy's BYC comes off in the summer and Foyle/Fish have one less year on their contracts. Mully will deal before we have to pay for guys like Biedrins (who won't expire for 2 more seasons after this one). Today I heard something from Bucher on Sportscenter that actually made sense to me; trades at the trade deadline are usually salary cap related while trades in the summer actually improve a team. Even the "major" trades of the last few trade deadlines were all teams trying to dump disgruntled/declining players with huge contracts. In the summer we will know our draft position, needs, and it will allow time for any new players to gell with the team before the season. Just be patient, this team is very young and looks like it has nowhere to go but up.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post"> BTW, I kinda know how you feel -- my San Francisco Giants watched Armando Benitez tear his achilles and be a non-factor all of last year </div>You're a Giants fan? I used to like you. jk But I agree with you. When I came home from school and bball practice, I wanted to turn on ESPN and see that the Warriors made a move. But like you, I was disappointed. Could the Warriors have made a move that would have been to our advantage that possibly turned this team around? Maybe, maybe not. But as fans we desire changes when things aren't going our way. Even if it wasn't a significant move, I would have liked to have seen something.
I am pissed off. But what's new? The thing is Mullin was looking for a steal instead of just a trade that benefitted both teams. He got gun shy and did not make a move that could have potentially saved the season. Standing pat is NOT what this team needs. It needs a jolt! I know it is sad to say, but we need it. I hope that Mullin fires Monty before the season ends. If this team does not make the playoffs this season there is APSOLUTELY NO reason why Monty should keep his job. If the Warriors end up with the same record as they have for the last 3 seasons, then Monty should be gone. That is why we fired Muss after 2 seasons. He had the same record with WAY less talent. Monty got lucky. There is no way we should have finished as strong as we did. But we got Baron and we lit up the league for 18 games to finish the season. This team is falling apart and standing pat only means Mullin is content to watch it continue to fall apart all the way into the offseason... I am very disappointed....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">I wish the Warriors had made a damn trade.</div> I agree with you AlleyOop on all your points and like you was terribly disappointed when a trade wasn't made. I'm sure we'll probably hear from VP Chris Mullin soon enough on why no trades were made. We better and it better not be the we're two deep at every position and are good enough as is . The only consolation is that other teams that we compete with didn't do much either. We aren't among the ELITE or BETTER teams such as the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, Grizz, Clips, Nugz or NO/OKC (surprise!). Those teams should make the playoffs in the Western Conference for sure, short of a major injury or meltdown. Out of those teams, Nugz, NO/OKC and the Clips made trades. The Nugz really helped address their weakness with the addition of Reuben Patterson and the Hornets and Clips both added big men to their bench. That leaves ONE lonely playoff slot remaining. It doesn't look too good. The middle of the pack teams battling for these two slots are Utah, Lakers, Sacramento, Warriors and Houston. I figure Seattle and Portland are already out. Utah didn't make any moves. Neither did the Lakers even though they got a lot of press. Sacramento made a BIG deal snagging Ron Artest and maybe they helped themselves rebounding with the acquisition of Potapenko (The rookie Monia probably won't be a contributor this season). Houston made some lesser deal which I can't even remember. So it looks as if only Sacramento got noticeably better. In hindsight, what hurts is it could've been the Warriors who got Artest. The Lakers have a relatively hard second half schedule while the Warriors have a relatively easy one. The Warriors will help themselves greatly by beating the Lakers and Kings twice. Maybe lightning will strike again and the Warriors get hot like last season, bit I wouldn't hold my breath .
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">What possible trades were actually available? I don't blame Mullin at all for not trading, its understandable that the fans want to do better but there just arent any trades available that would improve our team. Murphy's BYC comes off in the summer and Foyle/Fish have one less year on their contracts. Mully will deal before we have to pay for guys like Biedrins (who won't expire for 2 more seasons after this one). Today I heard something from Bucher on Sportscenter that actually made sense to me; trades at the trade deadline are usually salary cap related while trades in the summer actually improve a team. Even the "major" trades of the last few trade deadlines were all teams trying to dump disgruntled/declining players with huge contracts. In the summer we will know our draft position, needs, and it will allow time for any new players to gell with the team before the season. Just be patient, this team is very young and looks like it has nowhere to go but up.</div> I agree. What's the point of making a trade for the sake of making a trade? That's what most of you disappointed guys are saying. In business and in life, there is getting it done and getting it done right. Why jump the gun just because you're up against a deadline just to get it done? I actually admire Mullin for being a little stubborn and sticking to his initial plans. He built a foundation, albeit a flawed one, but he built it. It's been what, not even one year? Let's let it ride out a little longer. We've been out of the playoffs for 11 years...what's one or two more?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kensaku:</div><div class="quote_post">In business and in life, there is getting it done and getting it done right. </div> Or in the Warriors case, not at all. We're at the crossroads right now and I sure hope as hell history doesn't repeat itself. It sure looked like it did when all this money got tied up in mediocrity.
Mullin said he would be willing to trade a porspect if it meant getting a difference maker. Why, then, did he (reportedly) refuse to give up Ike Diogu in a package to get Artest. Artest sure as hell has been a difference maker for the Kings. They whooped on the W's the other night. And with Artest, the Kings very likely will end up going from bottom feeders to being better than the Warriors. Though that's not saying much, lol. Still, the Warriors could have had Artest. further, they could have gotten something for the soon-to-be-leaving Pietrus. My desire to see a trade happen today had nothing to do with logic or reason. I just wanted to see Mullin do something. Crap, if he made a move and tanked the team with a mis-calculation.... who cares? It ain't like he'd be messing with a pristine '57 Chevy. C'mon, the way the Warriors have been playing, Mullin is taking a cab because this Pinto needs a new alternator, distributor, tranny, and more. Swap out some parts. The worst you could end up with is another day's cab-fare. Nah, just playing. This "core" could very well blossom like a Lotus Flower and go on to push deep into the playoffs....
We don't know if we could have gotten Artest. Indiana is going to get the best value for him if they're giving up all-star talent. I think Peja tops Dunleavy + Ike (for now) any old day, don't you? Plus, one big problem is lacking options inside the paint. We don't need the small forward for that, especially if he's a two year rental who is just the type that will pull a Terrell Opens type of episode. We don't have a huge lack of stability problem, so we should be thankful for that, but unfortunately we have questionable talent to play a balanced type of game in offense/defense/whatever type of tempo. There's questionable talents all around that are most notably Adonal Foyle and Mike Dunleavy Jr and talented players that just have no fundamentals towards the team game. And no thanks to Mullin, there's no flexibility to improve upon a near .500 record with these guys and he gambled on a rookie coach that might or might not get these guys to play some team ball. In other words, Mullin's out of leverage, flexibility to improve this team. So we have to wait and see what happens either this half season or in the offseason. Our only hope is for locked up guys to improve and for teams to bite on our really bad contracts that Mullin signed. The most successful GMs in any sport, draft well, manage their contracts well (so they can trade them easier if they need to make moves), and have an idea what type of team they want to develop. Mullin came in without having any idea where to build and he doesn't understand finances like Isiah Thomas. If you look at the Warriors and the way the niners are handling their front office, you wonder how rich people could be so stupid and hire other stupid people to screw up once proud franchises. It's everything to do with the guys hired to build their vision of a winning team, the support they get, and just luck. We're unlucky most of the time and we're stupid in terms of management.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No deal: Warriors roster remains the sameBy Marcus Thompson IICONTRA COSTA TIMESHOUSTON - Warriors executive vice president of basketball operations Chris Mullin put in his share of calls and listened to a host of offers. In the end, he wasn't impressed enough to pull the trigger. The Warriors roster remained intact as today's noon deadline for NBA teams to make trades came and went. Mullin wouldn't say if he came close to a deal, but he said teams were not offering enough and wanted too much in return. He said he never came across the "right piece" to make the Warriors better. "I really wasn't anticipating one way or the other," Mullin said on a conference call. "I looked at a lot, not just today, but over the last several months. ... Anything we feel we need to address would be addressed later." Mullin said he expects more options this offseason. Not only will more players be available, but his own players won't be as restricted by collective bargaining agreement rules. Guard Jason Richardson and Troy Murphy, perhaps the Warriors' two most attractive players, lose their base year compensation status in July, making them easier to trade. As for this season, the Warriors' playoff chances rest on the current roster. Mullin said he believes these players -- provided point guard Baron Davis is healthy -- is capable of earning a postseason bid. "I think we need to play better," Mullin said. "I don't want to say play with a sense of urgency because I think we have, barring a few nights. ... We've put ourselves in position to win an awful lot of nights. Hopefully we learn from those missed opportunities." </div> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives...ch_bycs_for_ws/ But my opinion is that two moves will put this team back in the right direction. Both were in Alley's first original post of this thread. One is when someone buys the team from Chris Cohan, and second when Mullin fires Montgomery. What good has Cohan done for this franchise in 10 years? Nothing. He is mostly invisible, and when he does get mentioned it's usually in bad intentions. I think he puts the management and coaches in bad situations at points. One was the announcement that the Warriors were underachievers with Musselman, then firing him, and then the hiring of Montgomery, which I kind of believe was influenced by Cohan. Frankly, I was a skeptic of Montgomery being the answer for the Warriors from the very beginning, and I can't say that he has changed my mind. He has tried his best, but I think if he would have first became an assistant, it would have been maybe better that way. I think Mike was a great head coach at Stanford because he was a great recruiter, and maybe it's not so difficult to bring in students to get a good education at Stanford, especially on scholarship. For several years straight however, his teams underachieved in the big dance. And I think we are all feeling now that he and the Warriors are underachieving up to this point in time. Maybe there needs to be a change there. I think Stan Van Gundy would be a nice hire for the Warriors. With the Heat, he did a great job. Not just last year with Shaq but even the year before in Wade's first year. These are my opinions at least.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">What possible trades were actually available? I don't blame Mullin at all for not trading, its understandable that the fans want to do better but there just arent any trades available that would improve our team. Murphy's BYC comes off in the summer and Foyle/Fish have one less year on their contracts. Mully will deal before we have to pay for guys like Biedrins (who won't expire for 2 more seasons after this one). Today I heard something from Bucher on Sportscenter that actually made sense to me; trades at the trade deadline are usually salary cap related while trades in the summer actually improve a team. Even the "major" trades of the last few trade deadlines were all teams trying to dump disgruntled/declining players with huge contracts. In the summer we will know our draft position, needs, and it will allow time for any new players to gell with the team before the season. Just be patient, this team is very young and looks like it has nowhere to go but up.</div> BTW, totally agree with you Run!
Chris Mullin said teams making deadline moves tend to be desperate and he didn't want to get ripped off.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Chris Mullin said teams making deadline moves tend to be desperate and he didn't want to get ripped off.</div> There were deals out there... 1. Ron Artest - Mullin offered Dun, MP and #1 pick. Could it be the Pacers didn't bite because Dun had been extended 5 years, $44M for no reason? 2. Aaron Williams - Vet big man picked up by NO/OKC for a second round pick. 3. Tim Thomas - New Jersey was another team besides GSW that needed a big man. The trade away Mark Jackson, non-contributor, in order to make cap space and sign TT when his contract is bought out. 4. Vin Baker - LA Clips talk with Baker and he agrees to come on as free agent. When you have cap space, one can do that. 5. Sergei Monia - The Kings snagged him at the last minute. A 6-8 SF who's go potential for the future. Most of the teams that made deals are going to the playoffs and are better than us. What does that say -- Good teams continually try to improve themselves while teams such as GSW with Mullin at the helm say, "I think we're a playoff team with Baron healthy."
With the exception of the Artest deal, I wouldn't want any of the others, personally. None of those big men are addition by subtraction. I'd rather give Ike minutes over any of those 4. I think waiting until the offseason where contracts are of more trade value is a smart move. Plus, the Warriors have 2 1st rounders to play around with. I wouldn't be surprised to see a major trade this offseason.
I agree with CohanHater, plus we don't know what trades were realistic. Let's ask ourselves, was the Sacramento deal better than the one we supposedly offered Indiana? Absolutely. An all-star for an all-star. Nobody wants Dunleavy in any shape or form of a contract, unless his play justifies the value he's bringing to a team. Right now its that of a bench role player and he's paid like a starter. Aaron Williams, Tim Thomas, Sergei Monia??? C'mon these guys won't help us. Plus, we need size and presence if we want a roster addition. And unfortunately for us we have to homegrow one or sign one as a free agent or trade for one. All three aren't easy and the right conditions have to be met if we want a scenario that works for us. BTW I appreciate the things Aaron Williams does for a team, but he's washing up. Sergei Monya seems like another small forward project that can't create his own shot. Tim Thomas? No way, the guy is a crappy team player. I mean we'd have to be desperate for scoring and plus he's got to be healthy enough to give minutes. I believe Mullin knows who he wants to trade, but he could potentially get more value for them if those players finish strong this season. If Mullin can pull a better deal than what we're offered now, he'll be popular again.
