Thought about this trade in the Josh Smith thread and thought it deserved it's own discussion. The Nets can trade Swift, KVH and Simmons to Chicago for Nocioni and Hughes (Hughes expires in 2010). Chicago saves $4.2mm this season, $10.6mm next season and $28.3mm over the next 4 years. Gives them room to sign Deng and possibly Gordon. And it can be done now if they do 2 simultaneous trades: Swift and KVH for Hughes and Simmons for Nocioni. No need to wait the 60 days with Simmons. That trade adds experience, defense and gives a clearer picture at SF. Harris/Dooling Carter/Hughes/Hayes Nocioni/CDR/Hassell Yi/Najera/Anderson Boone/Lopez/Williams Gives us legit depth should Carter get injured for any amount of time. Cut Ager and pick-up a 3rd pg. **Before anyone freaks out we will still have room for Lebron.**
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Thought about this trade in the Josh Smith thread and thought it deserved it's own discussion. The Nets can trade Swift, KVH and Simmons to Chicago for Nocioni and Hughes (Hughes expires in 2010). Chicago saves $4.2mm this season, $10.6mm next season and $28.3mm over the next 4 years. Gives them room to sign Deng and possibly Gordon. And it can be done now if they do 2 simultaneous trades: Swift and KVH for Hughes and Simmons for Nocioni. No need to wait the 60 days with Simmons. That trade adds experience, defense and gives a clearer picture at SF. Harris/Dooling Carter/Hughes/Hayes Nocioni/CDR/Hassell Yi/Najera/Anderson Boone/Lopez/Williams Gives us legit depth should Carter get injured for any amount of time. Cut Ager and pick-up a 3rd pg. **Before anyone freaks out we will still have room for Lebron.**</div> I think this is a fantastic deal and very fair for both sides. If i were the Bulls, I'd get rid of Hughes in a hearbeat to clear playing time for Thabo, Hinrich, Rose, maybe Gordon, Deng, etc. Nocioni is a loss but I think for the Bulls, he's kind of expendable. You also get Swift and KVH's contracts coming off the books, Swift playing for the last contract of his career, and Simmons who can somewhat shoot when healthy and looking to prove himself. For the Nets, Nocioni at the three is legit, in my eyes, because he's a solid defender, albeit a lil slow on the perimeter, but he's a grinder ala Najera, plays very hard, and can hit the occasional three. Hughes would also be a SOLID guy off the bench, when healthy..... that is.. when he's healthy at least. AND I REITERATE, We will STILL have cap room in 2010. This would be a FANTASTIC move.. maybe we could throw Ager or Hassell in there, PLEASE GET RID OF THESE BUMS.
I think you overestimate Nocioni's ability. He suffered from plantar fasciitis two seasons ago, and he's not been the same player since he's come back, IMO. His offense has become far more 3pt oriented, where he used to mix in quite a few slashing type drives; he's still good around the basket tho. His defense is funny to watch; one game he tried to guard LeBron, got up into his grill, and LeBron went around him like he wasn't there. Maybe not fair to Noc, but I don't think it takes a guy of LeBron's caliber to go around him like he wasn't there... He actually had his best success playing PF for us in our smallball lineups under Skiles.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 24 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think you overestimate Nocioni's ability. He suffered from plantar fasciitis two seasons ago, and he's not been the same player since he's come back, IMO. His offense has become far more 3pt oriented, where he used to mix in quite a few slashing type drives; he's still good around the basket tho. His defense is funny to watch; one game he tried to guard LeBron, got up into his grill, and LeBron went around him like he wasn't there. Maybe not fair to Noc, but I don't think it takes a guy of LeBron's caliber to go around him like he wasn't there... He actually had his best success playing PF for us in our smallball lineups <u>under Skiles</u>.</div> The bolded portion could be one of the problems with his game recently. The guy is pretty solid and with this drive and kick offense the Nets are implimenting I can see his 3pt shooting being effective.
Harris, Dooling, Hughes, Nocioni, Hassell and Najera (and possibly Julius Hodge). replacing Kidd, Marcus Williams, Nachbar, Malik Allen, Wright, and RJ. That's six (or seven) plus defensive players in for five huge liabilities and a scrub. Since I want the Nets to make the playoffs, I say go for it, but a lot of folks think they would be better off losing games this year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Harris, Dooling, Hughes, Nocioni, Hassell and Najera (and possibly Julius Hodge). replacing Kidd, Marcus Williams, Nachbar, Malik Allen, Wright, and RJ. That's six (or seven) plus defensive players in for five huge liabilities and a scrub. Since I want the Nets to make the playoffs, I say go for it, but a lot of folks think they would be better off losing games this year.</div> Would be a hell of a change, wouldn't it?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Harris, Dooling, Hughes, Nocioni, Hassell and Najera (and possibly Julius Hodge). replacing Kidd, Marcus Williams, Nachbar, Malik Allen, Wright, and RJ. That's six (or seven) plus defensive players in for five huge liabilities and a scrub. Since I want the Nets to make the playoffs, I say go for it, but a lot of folks think they would be better off losing games this year.</div> Would be a hell of a change, wouldn't it? </div> And it's not like that bottom group is that far ahead offensively, either.
Hmm. I wouldn't be unhappy with this one, but I would prefer to see what Bobby Simmons has left. The optimistic view is that he was still recovering from the major foot surgery last year, was playing for a bad coach that he disliked, couldn't get the PT to find his rhythm early and only really started to come around late in the year. He did have a fantastic April, and (per NI) a major Milwaukee blogger felt Simmons started showing signs of physical improvement (quickness, I presume) late in the season. Simmons said in his press conference that he began working to recapture his prior form immediately after the season ended (well before he realized he would be traded, obviously). That's the kind of work ethic that makes you think he might actually be ABLE to recapture his form. At the very least, he will be a decent open shooter, better than RJ in that respect. So he can help balance the floor offensively, if nothing else. The other factor is that he is already well acquainted with Yi and can therefore increase his sense of familiarity and comfort when he arrives at camp. That's in everyone's best interests.
If this trade happened, I'd use Noc off the bench. I don't consider Noc as capable of being a full time starter at SF. At his best, he is a 25 MPG combo forward off the bench with spot starts. Start Hughes at SG and slide Vince over to SF. The trade(s) is certainly a win for the Nets on talent as they give up 2 players only valuable for their contract and a question mark of health for 1 player of value and lesser question mark of health. Now lets look at the rotation (with estimated minutes). Starters: Harris (35), Hughes (28), Vince (37), Yi (25) & Boone (25) - Hughes provides another ball handler and someone that can alternate with Harris and Vince at initiating the offense. Floor spacing is likely to be an issue in a half court set. Minutes check: 240 - 150 = 90 Significant Bench Players: Dooling (20), Nocioni (25), Najera (20), Hayes & Lopez Minutes check: 90 - 65 = 25 Players fighting for crumbs: Williams, Anderson, CDR, Hassell & Ager/Hodge The player this hurts the most from a development standpoint is Sean Williams. Anderson will still see the floor because of his shooting
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 24 2008, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If this trade happened, I'd use Noc off the bench. I don't consider Noc as capable of being a full time starter at SF. At his best, he is a 25 MPG combo forward off the bench with spot starts. Start Hughes at SG and slide Vince over to SF. The trade(s) is certainly a win for the Nets on talent as they give up 2 players only valuable for their contract and a question mark of health for 1 player of value and lesser question mark of health. Now lets look at the rotation (with estimated minutes). Starters: Harris (35), Hughes (28), Vince (37), Yi (25) & Boone (25) - Hughes provides another ball handler and someone that can alternate with Harris and Vince at initiating the offense. Floor spacing is likely to be an issue in a half court set. Minutes check: 240 - 150 = 90 Significant Bench Players: Dooling (20), Nocioni (25), Najera (20), Hayes & Lopez Minutes check: 90 - 65 = 25 Players fighting for crumbs: Williams, Anderson, CDR, Hassell & Ager/Hodge The player this hurts the most from a development standpoint is Sean Williams. Anderson will still see the floor because of his shooting</div> Boone (20) Lopez (15) Yi (28) Vince (35) Nocioni (27) Hughes (30) Najera (18) are the only changes I would make.
Nice proposal Netted, this is a pretty fair trade for both sides. I like it because I think we need a guy like Hughes more than we would Simmons because of Hughes being a better passer and defender (albeit a gambling one) plus we get Noc. This downside though is the impact it could have on CDR's minutes with vets like Dooling, Hayes, and now Larry in front of him. But overall it's def an upgrade for NJ and gives us even more assets to play with because while expiring contracts do have their worth, good role players are better trade chips in my opinion. Especially with a growing number of teams with expendable young talent that are looking for vets to help complete their championship puzzles to try and capitalize on their windows of opportunity.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jul 24 2008, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nice proposal Netted, this is a pretty fair trade for both sides. I like it because I think we need a guy like Hughes more than we would Simmons because of Hughes being a better passer and defender (albeit a gambling one) plus we get Noc. This downside though is the impact it could have on CDR's minutes with vets like Dooling, Hayes, and now Larry in front of him. But overall it's def an upgrade for NJ and gives us even more assets to play with because while expiring contracts do have their worth, good role players are better trade chips in my opinion. Especially with a growing number of teams with expendable young talent that are looking for vets to help complete their championship puzzles to try and capitalize on their windows of opportunity.</div> Thanks. My biggest concern is that we have players like Hayes, Simmons, Hassell and even CDR who are more SFs then SGs. I'm not sure they have the speed or lateral quickness to defend 2 guards. If Carter gets hurt we maybe forced to start Dooling at the 2. Hughes alleviates that issue. Plus, like you said he's another player that can initate offense. The line-up Cpaw mentions works well. Lots of possibilities. But I too share his concern about Sean not getting minutes, but I really don't see this trade impacting him. This trade impacts the 2/3 positions. May need another trade to alleviate the log jam up front. Boone, Yi, Lopez, Anderson and Najera are the ones that are mostly eating into his minutes. He doesn't bring anything to the table that warrants minutes ahead of those guys. Yi and Anderson bring a jumpshot. Lopez brings a post game and Najera brings a hustle and BBall IQ that Sean lacks. Boone's a proven commodity that plays within himself and is good in pick n' roll. It's tough upfront. Sean only brings athleticism and shot blocking.
Another possibilty is to send Sean to the D-League. The guy hasn't played a ton of organized bball during his life and getting a lot of minutes on the court is the best thing for him. Only then will the Nets really know what they have. Or if they already think they know maybe they should trade him for a player like Lowry and a pick before the "potential" tag wears off and his value drops.
I just was thinking and I realized this is a bad trade for the Nets. First off Larry Hughes is just a horrible shooter. He can't make a shot any more and his shooting percentage is just declining to the point that you can't like the guy. Any fan who has recently had Larry on their hates him due to the fact he takes so many shots but misses most of them. His shooting secelection is very poor. I typed his name in google and the third site that game up was a fan site dedicated to make Larry stop taking so many bad shots. Nocioni is a solid player. But last year he played 82 games and only averaged 13 pts and 4 rebs a game. I know Simmons is not the player he once was but don't try to tell me Simmons can't put up the exact same numbers if not better. Also taking Nocioni's contract is not what we want to do. Keep Simmons who has 2 years left and they'll produce about the same. I know you want to dump Stromile and KVH but cmon taking Hughes back will just kill us. I'd rather see C-D-R shoot at a .360 clip than Hughes. Trust me we do not want Hughes, hes washed up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I just was thinking and I realized this is a bad trade for the Nets. First off Larry Hughes is just a horrible shooter. He can't make a shot any more and his shooting percentage is just declining to the point that you can't like the guy. Any fan who has recently had Larry on their hates him due to the fact he takes so many shots but misses most of them. His shooting secelection is very poor. I typed his name in google and the third site that game up was a fan site dedicated to make Larry stop taking so many bad shots. Nocioni is a good solid player. But last year he played 82 games and only averaged 13 pts and 4 rebs a game. I know Simmons is not the player he once was but don't try to tell me Simmons can't put up the exact same numbers if not better. Also taking Nocioni's contract is not what we want to do. Keep Simmons who has 2 years left and they'll produce about the same. I know you want to dump Stromile and KVH but cmon taking Hughes back will just kill us. I'd rather see C-D-R shoot at a .360 clip than Hughes. Trust me we do not want Hughes, hes washed up.</div> You are looking at just the offensive stats. Those 2 guys bring a ton of defense to the team. Depending on the roll that is required of them they can be very effective. Also, RJ (16) and Nachbar (8) combined for 24 shots per game last season. Nocioni (10.7) and Hughes (11.5) combined for 22 shots per game with the Bulls. Plenty of shots to go around.
