http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/k...0,7410321.story <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Knicks and Nuggets are discussing a trade that would send 2006 first-round pick Renaldo Balkman to Denver for point guard Taurean Green and small forward Bobby Jones, an NBA front-office source told Newsday last night. The deal would mark the end of Balkman's mostly confusing tenure with the Knicks, who selected him with the 20th pick two years ago when Isiah Thomas said Phoenix would've swiped him if he hadn't. That scenario appears even more dubious now that the former coach of the Suns, Mike D'Antoni, is ready to ship Balkman out for little more than roster fodder. The deal was proposed late last week and is being discussed internally by both clubs, the front-office official familiar with the situation said. If the two-for-one deal goes through, it would leave the Knicks with 17 players under contract, although Green and Jones - who have non-guaranteed contracts - expect to be waived. It would get the Knicks back to the 15-player roster limit and save them Balkman's $1.32 million against the salary cap. Green, 23, appeared in only 17 games last season with Portland and Denver but is a ball-moving point guard who could add more competition at the position in training camp if the Knicks can create a roster spot by shedding another body.</div> This would be a good move for the Nuggets who need a hustle / energy guy off the bench that can guard multiple positions. It also would mean the Nuggets finally got back one of the three first round draft picks they shipped out for Kenyon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The New York Knickerbockers President of Basketball Operations Donnie Walsh announced today that a 2010 second-round draft choice, guard Taurean Green and guard/forward Bobby Jones have been acquired from Denver for forward Renaldo Balkman and cash considerations. The draft pick will be the more favorable selection between the Nuggets and Clippers, resulting from a previous trade. Balkman, 6-8, 208-pounds, averaged 3.4 points and 3.3 rebounds in 65 games for New York last season. Originally drafted by the Knicks after his junior season at the University of South Carolina in the first round (20th overall) of the 2006 NBA Draft, the Staten Island-native finishes his career in blue and orange having played in 133 career games, averaging 4.2 points, 3.8 rebounds and 15.2 minutes over two seasons.</div> http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...kman_to_denver/
Don't really know what to make of this trade. I don't know a ton about the players involved but I'd think Renaldo Balkman is the clear cut best player in the trade and would have seemingly been a good fit with D'Antoni. And Denver sends out a PG and a SG for a combo forward. Where the hell is Balkman going to fit in? Behind Melo and K-Mart/Nene somewhere. Must have been a financial move for them with the "cash considerations", I'm sure cpawfan will be thrilled about that. I'm guessing D'Antoni in fact did not like Balkman perhaps because of his lack of a jumpshot? Wouldn't surprise me at all either if D'Antoni was high on Taurean Green and Bobby Jones too. I was hard for Bobby Jones when he was coming out of college- fantastic defender, very athletic, hes developed a nice jumpshot since hes been in the league. Only a matter of time before hes a regular rotation player in the NBA.
Per the Denver Post, the Nuggets got $575,000 out of the deal <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>In efforts to improve their defense, the Nuggets have traded for Knicks forward Renaldo Balkman, a source confirmed. The Nuggets traded seldom-used guards Taurean Green and Bobby Jones, as well as a future second rounder, in exchange for the 6-foot-8 Balkman and $575,000. Balkman, who turned 24 this month, averaged 3.4 points and 3.3 rebounds last season, but is noted for his hustle and aggressive defensive play. Denver hopes Balkman can crack its rotation in the near future.</div>
The Knicks want to cut them both apparently. Anyway, I'm not too thrilled with this trade. We essentially give up a young, cheap, hustle player to shed $1.3M off the cap. Oh well, at least we get a second rounder.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 28 2008, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't really know what to make of this trade. I don't know a ton about the players involved but I'd think Renaldo Balkman is the clear cut best player in the trade and would have seemingly been a good fit with D'Antoni. And Denver sends out a PG and a SG for a combo forward. Where the hell is Balkman going to fit in? Behind Melo and K-Mart/Nene somewhere. Must have been a financial move for them with the "cash considerations", I'm sure cpawfan will be thrilled about that. I'm guessing D'Antoni in fact did not like Balkman perhaps because of his lack of a jumpshot? Wouldn't surprise me at all either if D'Antoni was high on Taurean Green and Bobby Jones too. I was hard for Bobby Jones when he was coming out of college- fantastic defender, very athletic, hes developed a nice jumpshot since hes been in the league. Only a matter of time before hes a regular rotation player in the NBA.</div> I really like this deal for Denver because they needed someone to replace the energy that Najera gave them. Both Green and Jones were going to be waived shortly and it is likely the Knicks will do the same. Both of them become guaranteed contracts on August first, so the Knicks essentially got a salary dump for a player that doesn't fit D'Antoni's offense first, second and third system. Bobby Jones failed to outplay Dahntay Jones in summer league, and Dahntay has been signed link While I liked Bobby coming out of college too, he just hasn't been able to improve enough. He played for almost a 3rd of the league last season and wasn't able to stick anywhere. He looks better on paper than how he performs in games.
Great trade for Denver. They get a very good role player that will give 150 percent. Knicks didn't make out that bad either. Like Mr. J said they shed some off the cap and they got a second rounder, which is what Balkman essentially was.
I knew before reading that cpawfan would like Balkman, because Balkman fits the style he prefers. Fans who put style above actual impact on the score of games are actually dangerous to teams in my opinion, because to the extent that front offices put style above substance (impact on game scores) they are working against their own best interests. In short, you want to win the games, not end up with a bunch of players who hustle and scrap and are appealing to those who like players who hustle and scrap. Sorry, but that is the reality: basketball is a statistical game, because the score determines who wins, and the score, in turn, is determined mostly by things that you can keep track of with statistics. If you want your team to win a Championship, you better hope they are stat-whores. (Thanks to cpawfan for that word.) Regarding Balkman, the replacement for Najera, the first problem is that the Nuggets have, as they are doing financially, gone from one extreme to another experience wise. Balkman has about 2,000 minutes of experience in banging, while Najera has over 9,500 minutes. Let's compare Balkman, Najera's replacement, with Najera himself, and also with who would have been a partial replacement for Najera, Bobby Jones, who was traded for Balkman. On 3's, Najera has hit on .3 per 36 minutes with a % of .332. Balkman has hit on .1 three per 36 for a non-competitive % of .154. Jones has made .8 threes with a % of .306. Jones has a three-point shot, Balkman does not, and Najera has one but has never used it much. Overall shooting shows Najera making 4 field goals per 36 with a % of .493. Balkman is essentially identical, 4.1 field goals per 36 with a % of .499. Bobby Jones also makes about 4 shots per 36, with a % of .442. So they all score about the same, but Jones misses a few jumpers never attempted by Najera or Balkman. On getting to the line, Najera has the better "style." Najera has earned 1.9 free throws per 36, and has made .686 of them. Balkman has earned 1.6 and has made .497 or half. Jones earns 2.6 free throws per 36, and makes .685 of them. Jones is the best slasher to the rim of the three. Najera is exactly twice the rebounder Balkman is so far, 7.6 rebounds per 36 versus 3.8. For the first time in many years, it looks like Denver is going to be a poor rebounding team this year. Bobby Jones, who was lost in this trade, has been making 6.2 rebounds per 36, closer to Najera than Balkman. The Marcus Camby rebound rate is 11.4. With regard to moving and making decisions with the basketball, Najera, never worked into an offense to any extent, has made 1.6 assists per 36 with 1.3 turnovers per 36. Balkman has made 1.5 assists per 36 with 1.5 turnovers per. Jones has made 1.8 assists per 36 minutes, with 1.9 turnovers. George Karl largely refused to play Jones due to that turnover rate. Najera was is slightly better than Jones in handling and making decisions with the ball, due to experience I would think. Balkman has about the same relatively dismal assist/turnover ratio as Jones, at a lower level of handling the basketball. So Najera is the best of the three by a small amount, while Balkman and Jones are about even up. With regard to steals and blocks, Najera has made 1.4 steals and .8 blocks per 36, while Balkman has made 1.8 steals and 1.3 blocks per 36. Jones has made 1.1 steals and only .2 blocks per 36. If a player is described as a hustle type player, you hope that it shows up somewhere in what can be measured. And with Balkman it shows up with his block rate, which is far higher than Najera's and is almost infinitely higher than Jones' block rate, since Jones does not block shots very much. The gold standard of blocking is the Marcus Camby blocked shot rate, which is 3.1 per 36. So Balkman is a little more than 4/10 the shot blocker than Camby is, which is actually kind of impressive. Since both Najera and Balkman are regarded as defensive players, it is interesting to note that Balkman is well ahead of Najera in defending that you can measure, so the Nuggets made a fairly good trade with respect to making up for the loss of Najera. The funny thing is, Jones "hustles" on defense also, but he doesn't get anywhere near the actual steals or blocks that a Najera or a Balkman get, so the Nuggets would have been worse off defensively had they not traded Jones for Balkman. The Nuggets lose some offense, but that is no real problem for them, so overall it was a good trade for the Nuggets. They didn't really need the offensive potential of Bobby Jones that much. However, if the Nuggets become a full scale poor rebounding team, the trade was about a wash. On made them miss defending, we can speculate that Balkman and Najera are about even in that, with Jones actually not too far behind; Jones is a good defender while not actually blocking many shots. On style, folks who consider style important like Balkman roughly as much as Najera, while Jones' style is not all that much liked I guess. But the bigger picture remains that the Nuggets have no future as a playoff team after the loss of Camby, and though Balkman is a very good defender, he is not a very good rebounder, so the Nuggets rebounding is now most likely going to be a problem; how serious will depend of course on how much Nene plays. (You see why you should not be afraid of numbers, cpawfan; I just agreed with you on the trade, and did it with real evidence, which backs you up with substance. So if you disagree with this post, you will be disagreeing with yourself, lol.) Why did I go to all this trouble to go over a relatively minor trade? Because I've never done a full breakdown like this before, and it was practice for breaking down bigger trades in the future, as well as for making player comparisons I will be doing. (Also to annoy cpawfan, lol.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 29 2008, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It is absolutely hilarious that you believe you can measure defense through steals and blocks.</div> Alright then, have it your way: Balkman is a junk player and Najera was a far better defender. That is what I was sort of hoping to find lol. Oh, and I want to play a team coached by someone who doesn't think that steals and blocks are important. Definitely, I want to play that team as many times as possible, lol. (Lol, I knew that you would in effect disagree with your own topic header.) Seriously, my point stands: Balkman is roughly as good a defender as is Najera, when steals, blocks, and forced misses are all factored in. So I'm not going to trash the Nuggets for getting Balkman as their replacement for Najera: they did well with that move.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tremaine @ Jul 29 2008, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 29 2008, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It is absolutely hilarious that you believe you can measure defense through steals and blocks.</div> Alright then, have it your way: Balkman is a junk player and Najera was a far better defender. That is what I was sort of hoping to find lol. Oh, and I want to play a team coached by someone who doesn't think that steals and blocks are important. Definitely, I want to play that team as many times as possible, lol. (Lol, I knew that you would in effect disagree with your own topic header.) Seriously, my point stands: Balkman is roughly as good a defender as is Najera, when steals, blocks, and forced misses are all factored in. So I'm not going to trash the Nuggets for getting Balkman as their replacement for Najera: they did well with that move. </div> Balkman is a better defender than Najera and this is obvious to anyone that WATCHES the game. While Eddie defends Centers better, Balkman defends every other position better. In no way have I disagreed with myself. Rather, you have failed to comprehend simple items. Steals and blocks are not indicators of good or bad defense. I'd type out an explanation, but history has shown that it would be a waste of my time. <u>No sane person can make an accurate analysis of how good or bad a player is on defense by looking at steals and blocks. </u> <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">The Nuggets got a huge steal with this deal and have significantly improved themselves.</span>
