Ever since the road trip, the Raps have not been working out so good. Were better than last year don't get me wrong, but something has to change. I think it is time for Babcock to do something about these defeats. Time for Vince trade is now? Would Abdur Rahim be good in Toronto? Better now so that the team could get aquainted and gel together in time for possibly a playoff push?
Vince is actually playing good. The Raps have been struggling on the back end of the back-to-back series all season long for some reason... I have no idea why and I'm not about to list tiredness as an excuse. Bosh played like garbage today, total garbage against a rookie he should have taught a lesson to. I just felt like punching and kicking something as I was seeing the deficit increase to 10, 20, 30 and close to 40 at one point.
I really didn't think Bosh would be the one teaching the lesson, I actually expected Howard to spank Bosh in this game because he's just as quick, more athletic, and also bigger, but what can you do, Bosh has become mini MoPete, taking charges all the time, he's under 1 BPG this season, and it's not like his man to man defense has been better.
I thought Bosh would be a 17/8 player this year. That is very reachable, but he needs to be more consistent with his rebounding.
Carter is playing good. Dont you think giving up Vince for 2 very solid players (Shareef is solid every night and DA is a great jump shooter, slasher and clutch shooter) would help Raptors more?
Bosh has been really disappointing after showing off his potential at the beginning of the season. I know it's probably too early to say, but I'm not sure Bosh will ever become a franchise player. Star PFs like Nowitzki, Garnett, and Stoudemire all had excellent sophomore seasons and really improved from their rookie season. Bosh on the other hand is getting the playing time, but hasn't made significant improvements in his numbers. Hopefully it's just because he's needs time to get used to playing the 4 position.
This is the time when you just want him to put up early year Joe Smith numbers which were actually not bad.
I dont think we need to trade Vince but we may need to get a better rebounding player, Bosh is good but inconsistent and 'Yell is getting old and we dont want him to ware by the end of the season so we dont have him playing too many minutes and who else do we have Loren Woods and Matt Bonner? We should try putting Matt Bonner in the starting lineup for a game or two at C or PF, if we can get Woods to fit there im sure Bonner can as well. I think we should activate Pape Sow, that guys a monster on the boards, IMO he's a young Danny Fortson without all the anger.
Pape would need to gain a low more weight to be a young Danny Fortson, any smaller guys who are good rebounders because Fortson isn't athletic either, maybe a young Ben Wallace but not really near as good.
Oh god, I was just looking at the box score and realized Bosh only had 2 freakin rebounds as opposed to Howard's 20 rebounds. How the hell can Bosh get out rebounded by 18 boards to an 18 year old rookie? We definitely need some bigger guys up front. I don't care if Araujo looks lost most of the time..... we need him in the game. I know he isn't a great rebounder or anything, but at least he brings in some toughness to our front court and he won't get pushed around like Woods and Bosh.
Woods can rebound. He just can't produce much on the offensive end. It's basically 4 vs. 5 on offense.
i'm with doing a trade. vince can go, rose can too...i like everyone else. Even though i think Bosh is having a bad start to the season
i think vince is playing fine and is perfect for the team now...the only problems are is that bosh needs to rebound more...woods needs to produce more on the offense of end....and alston should stop jacking up those three same with mopete...palacio is just fine...he is even driving more than vince...marshall is a great player but he just didnt showed it to us last night...he can get like 25 ppg...if he wants to...theres no need to trade...i think the team is set...mitchell has those weapons:vc,rose,palacio,alston,marshall,murray,bosh,mopete...hes just not using them well im telling u...this team is ready to make the plaayoffs with these kind of players...id laugh my ass off if they won't make the playoffs...sam has to realize that this team is still...(a bit) young...so he needs to go more easy on them...thats maybe all i have to say...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">i'm with doing a trade. vince can go, rose can too...i like everyone else. Even though i think Bosh is having a bad start to the season</div> That's not even the problem right now, a few things that have changed from the beginning of the season: Bosh has come back down to earth even though he was only killing for a few games | Rafer's three's aren't falling much anymore | THe bench can't carry the team which should have been obvious to most that your bench can't win you the games. What has stayed consistent, our inside presence sucks, if Moiso could just get his head straight, he could start along Bosh, and it would change a lot for us. If we trade and don't get a center, then it's useless to me right now because that's what's really hurting us.
what about a lorenzen wright or stromile...they're not huge but they'd help some. And added in with Miller or perferably Wells, a Vince trade might go through. I agree with you that we need to improve the inside game with real players, not just scrubs with upside, but we dont have a ton of chips to trade. Mo should stay, we need his defence and we know he can do well in a running system. Alstons has to stay. Palacio's fitting great for his slashing. Bosh of course is staying. We've got Rose to trade, he's playing good but with his contract he couldnt alone bring us a big. Marshall could be added since he's great and expiring. Vince is the only big chip for getting a big man. What about Chris Kaman from the Clips? He's stuck behind Wilcox now. He's young, he's big, he's not there yet and he's had some troubles this year...but he could help us out alot in the future if he develops like he's supposed to.
what about a lorenzen wright or stromile...they're not huge but they'd help some. And added in with Miller or perferably Wells, a Vince trade might go through. I agree with you that we need to improve the inside game with real players, not just scrubs with upside, but we dont have a ton of chips to trade. Mo should stay, we need his defence and we know he can do well in a running system. Alstons has to stay. Palacio's fitting great for his slashing. Bosh of course is staying. We've got Rose to trade, he's playing good but with his contract he couldnt alone bring us a big. Marshall could be added since he's great and expiring. Vince is the only big chip for getting a big man. What about Chris Kaman from the Clips? He's stuck behind Wilcox now. He's young, he's big, he's not there yet but he could help us out.
I really don't know what we can get, but we need something, just someone who's not so small, but common Tyson Chandler is small and he's a beast on the boards, I wish Bosh had that knack for rebounding. I don't think the Clippers will make any moves with how the team is doing right now, they can't trade Kaman for anyone on the Raps 1 on 1 that would profit the Clippers, and they won't take on big contracts that won't benefit the team. Kaman also just came off an injury, he could get back in the starting lineup, who knows.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MaxaMillion711:</div><div class="quote_post">Ever since the road trip, the Raps have not been working out so good. Were better than last year don't get me wrong, but something has to change. I think it is time for Babcock to do something about these defeats. Time for Vince trade is now? Would Abdur Rahim be good in Toronto? Better now so that the team could get aquainted and gel together in time for possibly a playoff push?</div> The tale of the tape on this team will always be "As Vince goes, so go the Raptors...." Leadership is more than getting your stat line in order. It's about setting an example. Years back I was talking to Mike Smrek after he had his tryout with the Barneys and he told a simple story that put the entire difference between champions and also-rans in the arena of pro sports into absolute perspective Smrek said that when he was with the Lakers during their championship run, it wasn't about the coaches needing to motivate the players. Guys like Magic, Kareem and Coop made sure that guys were in a good sweat a half hour before practice was supposed to start. They didn't wait on coaches to determine their destinies as players, they determined their own. They led by example When he was with the Raptors, Smrek said that practice started after the coaches had coerced all of the players out of the locker room and that nobody came early or stayed late afterwards My belief is that with Vince as your leader, there will always be a laissez-faire attitude. His gifts come to him so naturally, that he's never had to work to find success and he's happy with the level of success he's found. VC has his contract, he's got his fan club, he's got his happiness and now he just wants to keep the paychecks rolling. Pro sports used to be defined by championships. That isn't the case anymore. Today, success in sports is defined by getting a "Max-Money" deal. Guys in the Raptor culture see that malaise and it engulfs them Until the culture of the Raptors is changed, and I'm convinced that will never happen while Vince Carter is in Purple, you will never see an appreciable change in the quality of the Raptors' franchise aspirations It really is that simple..................
I don't think we can just put it on Carter, he's never been some big leader, and if these guys are looking to him for leadership then that's pretty bad. It shouldn't be as Vince goes the Raptors go, we've won games without him, they shouldn't have follow what he does, and if they do they're pretty stupid. I understand that for last year, but this season we're not solely depending on VC for the team to function. Even yesterday it's not like he played bad even, he was playing pretty decent defense when he was on Francis, and wasn't doing bad offensively, but that didn't make Jalen Rose do better on D, or make Bosh go after more rebounds, everyone needs to motivate themselves, if you're always waiting for someone else then you're going nowhere. Let's just trade him and Rose and get some center who can rebound, defend and block some shots, and some other player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting K Bomber:</div><div class="quote_post">The tale of the tape on this team will always be "As Vince goes, so go the Raptors...." Leadership is more than getting your stat line in order. It's about setting an example. Years back I was talking to Mike Smrek after he had his tryout with the Barneys and he told a simple story that put the entire difference between champions and also-rans in the arena of pro sports into absolute perspective Smrek said that when he was with the Lakers during their championship run, it wasn't about the coaches needing to motivate the players. Guys like Magic, Kareem and Coop made sure that guys were in a good sweat a half hour before practice was supposed to start. They didn't wait on coaches to determine their destinies as players, they determined their own. They led by example When he was with the Raptors, Smrek said that practice started after the coaches had coerced all of the players out of the locker room and that nobody came early or stayed late afterwards My belief is that with Vince as your leader, there will always be a laissez-faire attitude. His gifts come to him so naturally, that he's never had to work to find success and he's happy with the level of success he's found. VC has his contract, he's got his fan club, he's got his happiness and now he just wants to keep the paychecks rolling. Pro sports used to be defined by championships. That isn't the case anymore. Today, success in sports is defined by getting a "Max-Money" deal. Guys in the Raptor culture see that malaise and it engulfs them Until the culture of the Raptors is changed, and I'm convinced that will never happen while Vince Carter is in Purple, you will never see an appreciable change in the quality of the Raptors' franchise aspirations It really is that simple..................</div> I don't know who's side of the story is right, but Leo Rautins and Chuck Swirsky said that Vince and Bosh are the first ones to be out on the pre-game practice.
