Didn't Mr. Orwell correctly predict flat-screen televisions? Are we sure those things don't work both ways?
Unless this person also criticized the Bush Admin I don't really care what they have to say. I'm sorry but Republicans complaints about a totalitarian government fall on cynical ears in my case. I was completely against the Bush Admin's assault on civil liberties and many aspects of the war on Terror. I am equally appalled by the lack of roll back of these programs (Patriot Act, 2006 Military bill that stripped Habeus Corpus, NSA wiretaps, Guantanamo etc.) from the Obama Admin. I also am horrified by the increase in spending under Obama. That said I can't help, but get more then a little indignant when a Republican suddenly cares about the Constitution. Um, WHERE THE !#%^ were you when Bush was destroying our nation (Not you personally Maxiep)? I mean all of a sudden free speech is a cherished right guaranteed by the Constitution whereas just a scant few years ago war protestors were labeled traitors or that they were aiding and abetting terrorism. There is no question the Federal Government is wildly out of control. What I have seen from most Republicans however is a desire to wield dictatorial powers against their domestic enemies (all non-lock step republicans) and crush dissent. When the tables are turned suddenly they back the constitution. That to me is simply disgusting. That said I have grave concerns about the erosion of our soverignty under all presidents of the past 30 years the 12 years of Bush I (come on who was really running the show after Regan got shot?), 8 Years of Clinton and Bush II "Mr. Charisma for the low brow set" and now Mr. "Charisma for the intelligentsia" Barak Obama. Look into the Bank of International Settlements. I will probably post on them later. That's the real concern. The death of the dollar and being folded into an international government/currency. People think it's conspiracy theory, however they are OPENLY calling for this on European financial news outlets (I will link later I'm at work on a break). P.S. Democrats and Independennts, sadly we have to stick up for Republicans now, even though they failed to stick up for Independents and Democrats when they were in power. To do anything less is unamerican. I will however say that Republicans really REALLY drive me nuts with their hypocrisy (Worse then Dems which is pretty incredible seeing as Barney Frank is a Dem!)
Uh, Idog1976, it's the libs that proposed legislation to silence AM radio types who have differing views. It's our Prez who calls all people opposing him as "un American"... I do not disagree that under Bush's administration some rights were withheld from people in various prisons, but the current congress and administration has openly assaulted civil liberties of the US citizenry in a fashion unheard of since WWII when Roosevelt placed americans in internment camps. I'm not left or right, but if this doesn't raise a few concerns of people who consider themselves Americans first, and their political affiliation second, then there's a real disconnect there that places the state above the people and they have to openly admit (unless they are liars) that government of the people, by the people and for the people is disappearing.
I have no disagreement with you on the point that liberties are disappearing. I'm saying Conservatives are LATE TO THE FIGHT! Unfortunately, alot of Democrats went right back to sleep after Hopey won the election. I don't like Obama nor do I trust him. The last president I liked at all was Clinton (although I disliked him more as I got older) even Reagan (ugh) seems fantastic compared to these last two clowns. What I'm saying is there is an assault on our liberty coming from BOTH parties. That's what should worry people. It shouldn't be that one side or another is a champion of liberty clearly neither party is. In my estimation our last truly honest president was either JFK (maybe) or Eisenhower. Remember Ike's farewell address? Pretty damn prescient. He just needed to add the Intelligence Industrial Complex and the Financial Industrial Complex. I strongly support the Constitution. There is no comparing Obama (thus far) to Bush. He has been worse on two counts, eminent domain and spending. Bush though really raised the bar with Patriot Act, 2006 Military funding act that stripped Haebeus Corpus, all the domestic surveillance (Stuff even Ashcroft wouldn't sign for fucks sake!!! ) and the endless spying on various Anti-war and environmentalist groups. I'm sorry if you are feeling hunted now it's because you allowed a "seeming" Conservative to put this apparatus together. Remember Bush's whole Unitary Executive argument? Didn't it ever occur to you guys that a "Liberal" with a nasty streak might get a hold of this monstrous apparatus? I totally agree that the executive branch is WAY too powerful. I'm saying it would have helped an awful lot if principled Conservatives had spoken out about Bush more forcefully with their fellow Conservatives. If you think Obama is frightening ask yourself why you allowed Bush to create the vast domestic surveillance apparatus and the powers that were seized for the executive. There is no question that we need to stand united as a people when the government acts in a way that is contrary to the Constitution and it's Amendments. For instance I think any spying on Conservative groups that is occurring now is totally unacceptable and a breach of 4th Amendment rights. It's unfortunate that said groups that are now being treated this way did not stand up for their fellow Americans when Bush was in Power. It seems the people who were oppressed were viewed as dirty hippies, or radicals, or whatever. There was quite a bit of oppression under Bush, it just didn't effect Conservatives almost at all, so to them it was apparently, totally OK and/or invisible. Divide et impera Divide and conquer as an idea has been around for a looooong time.
Are you serious? Man I don't get it. Obama has TOTALITARIAN tendencies. Fascist though? That's a really big reach. Other then the banking bailout and arguably GM I don't see it. Isn't he also called a Socialist? Those two are on opposite ends of the pole! Fascist is high on the totalitarian side and also far to the right on economic matters. Mussolini, Hitler and Franco were Fascists and ROUNDLY considered by historians to be far RIGHT. Also my grandparents with whom I had LENGTHY discussions with about WWII, my English grandmother survived the Blitz and had contact with English Nazi outreach groups before the war, all said it was the far right. My grandparents also loathed Comunists who they said were dangerous far lefty's. Stalin was a socialist, well Communist, Totalitarian dictator. Please use Mao or Stalin or if you're bored with those two Pol Pot as your comparison to Obama. They are murders by the millions all! Stalin arguably killed MORE THEN HITLER! But please, can you STOP calling Obama a Socialist and a Fascist? Make up your minds! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism That sounds far more like the rabid right in this country. Not everyone right of center is that way of course, however the rabid FAR right can definitely fit the bill. The Republican party is in my opinion enthralled by that wing of the party. The centrists and Libertarians need to take it back. Likewise the progressive Democrats have a lot of work to do cleaning up their party. Now you can definitely argue that Obama has Pseudo-socialist and Totalitarian tendencies. What you can't say is Obama hates America and is socializing corporations and blames liberalism and loves America and is corpratist. That sentence is all sorts of messed up. If you said Totalitarian and Pseudo-Socialist I would totally listen. Saying Fascist about a person also defamed as a wild leftist just doesn't make any sense!
I think they are making a reasonable request actually. I haven't heard Obama say that either. It would be fascinating to see a youtube video of it or a news paper clipping. Would lend alot more weight to what you are saying. Pretty sure Cheney said things along those lines about war protesters...but, uh, I'm too lazy to look it up.
It's funny that you say that because you're attacking him at all costs, and defending Bush (and the conservative mindset) at all costs. But seriously, how is what Chris said a thing worth you getting all smart assed about? Where did Obama say that? Or hell, where did Pelosi ACTUALLY say it (and not get misquoted and repeated enough times that people are too god damned lazy to actually find the actual quote and believe it to be true)? Nancy Pelosi and the President actually didn't say that. It's just an easy (and fucking lazy) thing that people say because they think it makes them appear witty, when actually it makes them appear flat brained. You know that if anyone miss attributed Bush with something, you'd get all bent out of shape. For you to act as though that is not true, is being incredibly disingenuous. It's ironic and funny that the same political people who would call protesters of the war unAmerican (and only stopped doing so after they had been ridiculed by the media and it became a joke), are now wrongly accusing others of doing the exact same as what they ACTUALLY did and said before. Oh I know, you aren't conservative. You aren't even a republican! You just play one on tv (really really convincingly).
Nah, Obama didn't say it, at least publicly. If he did, every Republican in the land would have exploded in a simultaneous orgasm. I was just laughing at how quickly someone came to President Obama's defense. A lot of people have invested themselves personally in this President and I get a giggle watching those people defend his every move.
Relax. You know Obama isn't Jesus. He make mistakes. I think Speaker Pelosi said something close (drowning out other voices was un-American or some such), but President Obama is too smart for that. He lets others do most of the heavy lifting. Link? I correct falsehoods, mostly when it comes to the economy or finance. If they happen to be about President Bush, well 'dems the breaks. Both Democrats and Republicans are incredible hypocrites when it serves them. I spent plenty of time complaining about the size of government from so-called "fiscal conservatives". Oh I know, you aren't conservative. You aren't even a republican! You just play one on tv (really really convincingly).[/QUOTE] I never said I didn't have crossover with some conservative issues. I'm a hawk when it comes to foreign policy, I believe the supply curve is vertical and the smaller the government is, the better for the population. I'm also pro-choice, anti-death penalty and pro-gay marriage and polygamy (although I would prefer if the government got out of the marriage business altogether). I know it's difficult for someone so tied up in a party label as you, but it's possible to not care about the person or the party but rather the policy. If Barack Obama champions a cause I agree with, I'll support him on that one issue. However, he's pretty much been my policy opposite.
I think they heard that he said that on Hanity or Limbaugh in the same speech about granny killing death panels, they are the preferred news outlets for the recently outnumbered afterall.
Once you figure out that Fascists were Socialists, your confusion will go away. Once you figure out that hindsight and study of the actual policies and actions of the Fascists flies in the face of the historians' view that hasn't changed in decades (while the world has), your confusion will go away. The Totalitarian thing is what really counts. How they achieve their ends depends simply on the nature of the society/nation. If the nation is industrial, then it's middle class populism. If the nation is less industrialized, then it's lower class populism. These last two sentences are the only distinguishing things between what you call right and left. The socialists in an industrialized nation like Germany had to use the established apparatus to achieve their policy goals; they partnered with the leaders of industry before absolutely directing their operations. The socialists in a less industrialized nation like Russia had to rally the lower class to rebel against the small but elite ruling class.
Can I ask a question? Is it possible to have a right wing Totalitarian government in your eyes? Or is being Right Wing in and of itself at an essential level one that can only be good? That seems to be the argument you are making. Was Pinochet right wing? Imelda Marcos? Anyone historically? Or are they all lefties? Was the Roman Empire left wing? I agree that Totalitarian is the only thing that matters. I STRONGLY disagree with your appelation of right wing vs left wing. I feel the extremes of both wings are dangerous. Unfortunately, our country according to none other then Barry Goldwater prior to his death, had shifted so far to the right he considered himself to be left of center even though none of his political ideologies had changed. I think you are getting suckered in by right wing apologists for Hitler who try and reframe him as a Socialist. I remember in College a few left wingers who tried to cast Stalin as a right wing type. I think the thing is people don't want to see Totalitarianism in a group they identify with. The important thing is too look for limitations to liberty both legally and economically. It seems those on the right see only the later clearly and those on the left only see the former. That is too say right wingers by and large thought the Patriot Act was ....well Patriotic even though that Orwellian name hide a vast usurpation of civil liberties. Likewise Obama followers see nothing wrong with some of his more socialist manuevers such as GM being seized. It's alarming to me how both parties seem to only have one eye when it comes to encroaching totalitarianism and miss the big picture.
I happen to believe the terms "right wing" and "left wing" cause more confusion than clarity, and I'm guilty of using it all the time. I think a better description of the linear progression is Anarchy on one side and Totalitarianism on the other. I tend to be closer to Anarchy than Totalitarianism.
