Patrick "Hangman" O'Bryant I watched both of the blowout games against Dallas and Houston, and one advantage I see in the recent state of affairs is that Nelson may see fit to start bringing in O'Bryant to make some real contributions, since the Murphy at center experiment was never a more stunning failure than in the past couple games. For the time being, I'd have O'Bryant back up Biedrins in key situations. Granted the past two games weren't exactly competitive, but I loved what I saw out of him. He's quicker and longer than I thought, and seems to be very attuned to the speed and flow of the game. Also, and this may just be me, but does O'Bryant remind anybody else of Kevin McHale? Just physically, I mean, the sort of protruded chest and straight shoulders, and his arms hang down kind of limp... thought he looks mighty McHale-ish.
I agree with everything said except for the McHale comparison, because I have never seen McHale play...
I've also liked what I've seen from him but I wouldn't let him play big minutes in close games just yet. I love his awareness on offense, hes very decisive and makes good decisions, doesn't force the action, makes good crisp passes. On defense however he looks pretty clueless, he tries to block alot of shots but most of the time the result is him being right in front of the ballhandler and fouling before he can even get off the ground. Hes got to learn to position himself, move his feet, and use his length to get to the ball and not foul the player. He does bang around on the inside for rebound position but still doesn't have very good technique. These last few games he looks alot more active and much more athletic than what I've heard of him. He can get up pretty high and his arms are huge, as we saw on that putback dunk last night where it looked like his body was under the backboard. Once he can bulk up so he can hold his position in the post and continue to develop his offensive skill and defensive awareness he should be a pretty good player.
<div class="quote_poster">Montaman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I watched both of the blowout games against Dallas and Houston, and one advantage I see in the recent state of affairs is that Nelson may see fit to start bringing in O'Bryant to make some real contributions, since the Murphy at center experiment was never a more stunning failure than in the past couple games. For the time being, I'd have O'Bryant back up Biedrins in key situations. Granted the past two games weren't exactly competitive, but I loved what I saw out of him. He's quicker and longer than I thought, and seems to be very attuned to the speed and flow of the game. Also, and this may just be me, but does O'Bryant remind anybody else of Kevin McHale? Just physically, I mean, the sort of protruded chest and straight shoulders, and his arms hang down kind of limp... thought he looks mighty McHale-ish.</div> Some good comments Montaman. Hopefully, POB will get some PT. Seeing that he is quick and can run some should be a big plus. I'm sure he can be exploited laterally though. Also, the rap on POB was that he would lose focus so we have to watch out for that. So far, so good. No on Kevin McHale. McHale was much more physical and active inside. He was a smart player who had the uncanny knack of being in the right place for the rebound. I'm not sure if the physiques are similar, too. Would have to see pics. In my mind I don't see it.
If POB is half the player McHale was, I'd be thrilled, but it seems unlikely. Back in the day I was a Magic/Laker fan and was frustrated so many times by this big, lanky, slow-looking white guy. Like Bird, he didn't look like much of a basketball player in the thoroughbred athletic sense but man could he play. He and Parish together is still probably the scariest front line I've ever seen in the NBA. The move I remember most from McHale, other than his relentless offensive rebounding, is when he'd catch the ball and fluidly spin and bank it home off the glass from short range. I've seen some of that same move from Biedrins. Like McHale, Andris has a nose for the ball on the offensive glass and a deft shooting touch from close in. So I'd say Biedrins is actually a closer parallel to McHale (though I've admittedly seen little of POB yet). Biedrins doesn't have the experience or killer instinct of McHale yet, nor the passing skills or freethrow proficiency, but he's more athletic (although so is nearly everyone else in the NBA nowadays) and McHale-like potential is there. Also I'd say Ike is in a strange way similar to McHale with his freakishly long arms, his diverse array of post moves with which to score around defenders, and his ability to draw fouls and finish for a 3-point play.
Nice posts all around. One thing about Kevin McHale was he was a terrific fundamentals type of guy. He knew every post move and technique to get inside position, in the book, and could make the right move to score inside, with either hand. Important to have for any scoring big man.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I've also liked what I've seen from him but I wouldn't let him play big minutes in close games just yet. I love his awareness on offense, hes very decisive and makes good decisions, doesn't force the action, makes good crisp passes. On defense however he looks pretty clueless, he tries to block alot of shots but most of the time the result is him being right in front of the ballhandler and fouling before he can even get off the ground. Hes got to learn to position himself, move his feet, and use his length to get to the ball and not foul the player. He does bang around on the inside for rebound position but still doesn't have very good technique. These last few games he looks alot more active and much more athletic than what I've heard of him. He can get up pretty high and his arms are huge, as we saw on that putback dunk last night where it looked like his body was under the backboard. Once he can bulk up so he can hold his position in the post and continue to develop his offensive skill and defensive awareness he should be a pretty good player.</div> I remember in the preseason game that I attended where I saw similar things on defense from Patrick O'Bryant. He did not show great ability at moving on defense like Andris Biedrins has shown. Andris from the youtube clip I saw is great at sticking with his man and moving his feet and like you say getting and being in the right position. Patrick O'Bryant is not quite at that level. One trait he does have is long arms. With his height and long arms he could possibly effect many shots. I could see him picking up quite a few fouls often because he would not go straight up and he usually would just kind of hover over the shooter with his long arms, which players these days can draw contact on and refs will call fouls on. It may be similar to Andris and his foul troubles in the past. I think O'Bryant can be the last or one of the final piece needed for this team once Ike, Jason, Murphy and the rest of the team gets it back into gear. I think Biedrins/O'Bryant/Murphy/Diogu is a good front-court. I just don't see it staying around so long especially when these players become real good. It's a shame that Chris Taft never got his back injury straightened out.
I can see some similar "lanky' qualities. Zarko reminded me more of mcHale,POB reminds me of a young Parrish. Perhaps the question then is who is the next JB Carroll? What impact will the University Of Nellie have on POB,Diogu,Murphy,Zarko,and even Foyle? Biedrens has made fine progress. Murphy is doing stuff it was ofen said he could not do-or did not want to do...however...his BIG plus,heavy rebounds regularly-is now 13 boards one game...3 a few days later. His FG% and 3 pt % are way up-yet he's getting fewer touches. Ike,meanwhile,had just a couple games with some role. Foyle looks quicker and so far...no negatives.
Murphy's fg% is crap inside the paint, though. He can make outside jumpers but can't get off the floor inside. Lol he tried to post up the point guard Luther Head last night -- rotflmao -- he tried to back him down and then shot an off balance, awkward one-footed one hander --ala Dun-Dun -- for a brick of the glass. There was absolutely NO power in that move. It was obvious Head got the better of Murphy and yet he was giving up 8 inches and 60 pounds. Murph has no inside game -- he has a two inch vert, wobbly knees, and moves in slow-motion. He has trouble posting up point-guards. He can shoot, though. But is that really what you want from a "power forward?" It's not what I want.
Alleyoop, Power forwards mostly shooting jumpers?... hmm unless Murphy becomes like Robert Horry or Rasheed Wallace or a Dirk/Kgarnett, I'm not sold. Until Biedrins dominates offensively like Shaq or at least Alonzo Mourning level, make that power forward have an inside and outside game. I think with Biedrins the way he is, we need other matchups at the big spots. It would be nice if we could go inside to our power forward and have him post up or drive. I think Ike can do it just fine until something even better comes along. But I liked Ike at #9 just as much as I'd like Andrew Bynum at #9 or maybe Danny Granger type role player or Gerald Green type project. But I don't really like hs projects that aren't too polished. But guys like Dorrell Wright and Gerald Green look so awesome when they get it going.
Yeah, just somebody with a little thump in the paint, to rebound, contest shots and put a body on people. When you're a PF camping on the three point line, guess what happens? I dunno, but whatever it is you don't get to be a part of it cause you're 25 feet away.
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, just somebody with a little thump in the paint, to rebound, contest shots and put a body on people. When you're a PF camping on the three point line, guess what happens? I dunno, but whatever it is you don't get to be a part of it cause you're 25 feet away.</div> LOL I agree that we need a prototype power forward. The more legit big men we have that play like actual big men, the less we need to do run n' gun. If we didn't want to go that route, we should have picked up an athletic swing who has decent to great basketball I.Q. and finesse/power skills. Upside counts for something vs. nba ready with low ceiling. I think Ike Diogu is a balance between the two (high upside vs. high ceiling) IMO.
I hated the Celtics but I have the utmost respect for those guys, Bird, McHale, Parish, Ainge, DJ, Maxwell. McHale was the best power forward I've ever seen, better than Malone, because he truly posted up and scored in all different kinds of ways. He was so good that he could fake and sell it so well that all he'd have to do was take a step and shoot a 2 footer off the glass. His up fake and step through under was his signature move. He also played great D and rebounded in traffic. He made his FTs too. It ruly is a wonder that KG has never put any of these moves into his game.
Anyone think POB can play the 4 position? He does have a mid-range game, so he can do it on offense I think.
Maybe POB is too slow for power forward... He was considered pretty decently athletic for center, though. Maybe he'll have an offensive game like Mark Blount or play more like the European centers. I know that's not too good, but he could develop anywhere since his game's so raw and he's yet to grow stronger. POB has a high ceiling in terms of his physical skills and early demonstration of what he can do in college NCAA tourney (in a weak division though). There were many comparrisons for POB to guys like Chris Kaman or Michael Olowakandi's type of body. We're talking maybe a mobile 270 pounder at 7 feet with an even longer wingspan than any of those matchups. He's got a different body than Biedrins, who is considered a versatile Forward-Center. Biedrins is really athletic for C (maybe like Rasheed Wallace or Jermaine O'neil), but at PF he has height, strength, weight, and he's still athletic for PF. But he's got no outside or midrange game yet... With POB, maybe Biedrins could slide into PF, but I only like that if Biedrins is good enough to be a 2nd option scorer and POB is good enough defender like Biedrins is and can also post up some. Our team should go to the mismatch whenever possible. Having two 7 footers that are decently athletic and strong with great defensive skills and a high% game would be killer.
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone think POB can play the 4 position? He does have a mid-range game, so he can do it on offense I think.</div> I don't think hes athletic enough. At C hes an above average athlete with great size, length, and skills. At PF hes got great size but his athleticism and skills would be below average. I think Biedrins could slide over to PF with a skilled C like POB because Biedrins has great athleticism like a Bosh, Camby, etc. while POB is more like Dampier or Mark Blount; not a freak athlete but above average for their size.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think hes athletic enough. At C hes an above average athlete with great size, length, and skills. At PF hes got great size but his athleticism and skills would be below average. I think Biedrins could slide over to PF with a skilled C like POB because Biedrins has great athleticism like a Bosh, Camby, etc. while POB is more like Dampier or Mark Blount; not a freak athlete but above average for their size.</div>
