Date ended: Thursday August 17thTopic: Is T-Mac an overrated basketball player?Rules: Keep it clean, No need to throw put instults and harmful remarks. You guys can just go at it unti the due date, Debate like crazy. If you both agree with the topic, See if you can prove your opponents points wrong, If you agree to the extent where there is nothing to debate about, Then say something and we will get you a new topic.Good luck.
Is Tracy McGrady an overrated basketball player? I don't think so.T-Mac is one of the NBA's true superstars. He is first and formost, an elite scorer in the NBA, and could end up going down as one of the best the league has seen. He can score in almost any fashion, at almost anytime, and that is including clutch time situations. He has been a 24ppg+ scorer for 6 straight seasons. His performance against the San Antonio Spurs in which he scored 13 points in under one minute was unbelievable, and might never happen again, at least not in my lifetime. T-Mac is no slouch at the defensive end either. His height and length at his position make him a defensive mismatch waiting to happen. He puts up all NBA defensive team calibur stats each year, ranking high in steals, blocks, and rebounds for players at his position.Tracy has made 5 NBA All Star Teams, been on the All NBA First team 2 times, and the All NBA Third team once. He has a most improved player award under his belt as well. The real reason so many people consider Tracy to be overrated is his lack of postseason success, which is a fair reason, but surely can be argued against. Tracy has never really had one great developed second option with him in his playoff apperances. Yao this past season, while a star, was not legit yet as a guy who could dominate a game, something Tracy has never had by his side in the postseason. In Orlando he had a bunch of role-players, while he was the star, he couldn't carry the load all on his own.All though he could have had more success in the post season, I don't think that is enough reason to call Tracy overrated.
Yes, Tracy McGrady is an overrated player. When Tracy McGrady finally broke out in the NBA when he left Toronto, where he was beign overshadowed by Vince Carter, this was his chance to show that he could carry a team to the playoffs. He did have good role players in Orlando like you said, and shouldnt that be enought for at least some postseason success? There are plenty of star players in the NBA that have led their team to the postseason, and even advanced them deep in the playoffs. Does it really matter if you can be among the league leaders in scoring and yet your team is still in last place? Orlando knew what they were doing when they let him go, McGrady is not a winner and if they were ever going to get out of the gutter they needed to get rid of the guy. It was understandable that Orlando with McGrady never were contenders. When he joined up with Yao in Houston though, that was supposed to be his time to shine. Everyone automatically were calling Houston contenders, and there were even comparisons to the Kobe/Shaq combination. However Houston greatly missed expectations, and the Rockets struggled throughout the season. McGrady once again put up some good numbers in scoring, but he once again had no postseason success.Then you have last years situation, understandably the Rockets were plagued with injuries, and they failed to make the playoffs. McGrady's numbers continued to drop as well.Bottom line is, it isnt right to mention Tracy McGrady among the leagues best. He will be entering his 10th year in the leauge next season, but has yet to ever advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs. He has put up great individual numbers, but if you want to be known as one of the leagues best, you need to have the abiliy to make the players around you better, something which T-Mac has yet to show me yet.
Acctually in Toronto, the season before he left he averaged around 17 points a game, so he wasn't as overshadowed as you thought, and even that team did not have great playoff success.Orlando got rid of him to begin a rebuilding process, and because he didn't agree with the way management was going, and foremost because he demanded out. T-Mac was the only chance of winning they had in Orlando, and since they couldn't surround him with the proper players to win, he wanted out.When he arrived in Houston, Yao was not the dominant player he is today. Yes he was supposed to shine, and he did the best he could with what he had. In the postseason he got the team as far as he could without the developed Yao, and lost in a 7 game series. This past season he and Yao both were destroyed by injuries, something we both agree on. To say T-Mac doesn't make his other teammates better isn't right. He elevates his game to make his teammates better, when his team needs a leader, he is there in the clutch for his team. When his team needs him to take a game over, he does. As far as I have heard he has never had a major beef with a teammate, so I think he is a good team guy.
I really dont understand your point of Yao not being the dominate player that he is today?? The year he arrived Yao was the 2nd best center in the league, and was getting 18 and 8. Explain to me when and where between the 04-05 season and today where Yao became "the dominate player that he is today"... because i dont think it was last year. And he was beign overshadowed by Vince in Toronto. He only averaged 15 points a game, and wasnt even a full time starter. When he got to Orlondo, his minutes went up by 10 and so did his scoring averages. However the best record that Orlando had when he was there was a mediocre 44-38And obviously T-Mac wasnt the only chance they had at winning in Orlando. T-Macs last season in Orlando, they had the worst record in the leauge, and the following year without him, they turned into playoff contenders again
If you say Tracy was overshadowed in Toronto, tell me how that is a point to make him overrated. When he did arrive on the Magic he was the only star player. He didn't have enough talent around him to carry to a second round berth. Darrell Armstrong was the second best player he had on his team. He was a leader, but not a good enough second option. He had a rookie Drew Gooden, but he isn't the same player he is today. T-Mac carried his team as far as he could, with the limited help he had in Orlando, if that makes him overrated I am not sure I know the meaning of the word.When he arrived in Houston Yao was not the legit second option. 18 and 8 is good, but he couldn't take a game over like he showed at the end of this season. With Yao as a legit second man I think he and T-Mac can take the Rockets as far as the Finals.
Your last sentence is the reason why T-Mac is overrated. Houston will not be going to the finals any time soon. Yao was a ligit 2nd or 1st option for the past 2 season.T-Mac is just another Steve Francis, or Stephon Marbury. Guys who are very talented, but are not able to lead their teams to any success.Its a joke when he is thrown into the same sentence with guys like Kobe, Iverson, Wade ect.
T-Mac is overrated because I think he has a decent shot of taking his team to the Finals? If Yao plays like he did at the end of last year he will be a dominant second option, and that would be the first time T-Mac would have someone like that. After that look at the other players they have, Battier, Alston, Head, Mutombo, Howard, etc. This year he has enough around him with a much better Yao to take a team deep into the playoffs and show his leadership. Yao at the end of last season was a legit second option, however Tracy was injured the entire time, adn that is why the Rockets lost so much. As I said much of the time before, Yao played well in the first year, but couldn't take over if Tracy had a bad game once in a while. This year it will be different.How can you compare Tracy to Stephon? Look at all of the talent Stephon had this year, a hall of fame coach, and the oppurtunity to step up and be a leader for the Knicks, and what does he do with it? Absolutley nothing. Tracy has taken teams with very little talent to the playoffs, and Stephon couldn't take a talented team like he had this year to anything but the worst record in the East.How is it a joke when he is thrown into the same sentence with Kobe, Wade and Iverson? What did Iverson do last year? Took his team to the first round and was out, just like Tracy did with the Magic. What did Kobe do? Took his team to the first round and out, just like Tracy. So if you base your opinion on recent playoff success, you must think Iverson and Kobe are overrated as well, seeing as they are doing the same thing now, that Tracy did with the Magic.
Kobe has 3 rings with Shaq. McGrady can't even get out of the first round with Yao.T-Mac should at least have taken Orlando past the 2nd round, the East was god awful back then, and in the East all you really needed was 1 good player and a bunch of decent role guys around you. Kinda like Allen Iverson who took a team with very little talent around him to the NBA finals.Yao is about as good as he was last year and the year before, so this year should be no different for Houston. Simply put, they will go 1 and done. Yao is the 2nd best center in the league right now, and he was just that 2 years before.
McGrady took the higher seeded Mavericks to 7 games, with a less developed Yao. That was one of the better series I can remember, either team could have lost it, it just so happened that the Mavericks had more talent and a better team. Do you even know who McGrady had on his team back then? The starting center was a 35 year old Horace Grant, his back-up, Patrick Ewing, who was in his late thirties as well. Pat Garrity was a decent shooter, but played as a big small forward. Mike Miller had just came into the league as wasn't what he is today. The Magic also didn't have a coach the calibur of a Larry Brown. How he even took what he had there as far as he did is beyond me.Yao might have been a good center, and a star player, but he couldn't take a game over if the Rocets needed him to, and I keep saying it and all you say to rebuke that is that he was good.... not really. He could not take the team and put it on his back if T-Mac needed a rest or had an off game.
Bottom line is, if a guy like Kobe or Lebron was in Houston with Yao, they would be on the verge of making the NBA finals every year. You saying Yao wasnt a capable #2 guy is a joke. How many points would you like the 2nd option on a team to get, 25 points?And atleast i didnt have to get BCBs advice on my posts.
This entire past season Tracy and Yao were both injured, thus no playoff apperance. If LeBron and Kobe were on this team, there is no guarentee that they would do any better with Yao, and until you can somehow prove it or it happens, we would never know that for sure.Yao couldn't take a game over for T-Mac if he needed him to when he had a bad game or was hurt, which is my point that Yao couldn't carry the team. He was a good second option, but wasn't as dominant as a player as you make him out to be.And for the BCB thing, I just mentioned that I forgot who the Magic had at center that year, he said Horace and Patrick Ewing as a backup, I knew Ewing was on the team, and it isn't like him reminding me that Horace started was a big deal. Next time I will look it up for you instead... :happy0144:
I never said Yao was an amazing player, or that he could take over a game when McGrady wasnt there, nor did i ever say that he was a dominate player
My point exactly. If T-Mac can't rely on a guy to take over for him when he is out or injured then why do you think that Yao is a guy that you supposedly say can make a run to the Finals with? Tracy has not had a guy who can take over for him and can produce buckets consistantly. This year, if Yao plays all year like he did down the stretch, Tracy will have that #2 option that can score consistantly. With that, Tracy can finally show the world just how far he can go in the playoffs.
I dont understand how ur trying to make ur case by saying that Yao isnt a capable #2 guy. You said he didnt have the ability to take over games with McGrady was hurt, but he was hurt last year, and that was when Yao was taking over games. Really, find me star players that have second option guys that average around 20 points per game, and i promise that almost all of them have more success in their careers than McGrady.
I am saying that Yao wasn't the player that could take over when Tracy was not injured. Last season if Yao played all year like he did at the end of the season I know that the Rockets could have success in the playoffs. I just don't understand how you can call Tracy overrated when he lost a very tough seven game series in his first year in a new offense, and his second year his entire team including himself was injured. Your comparision to Marbury was rediculous. Your entire arguement is that one guy should single handedly be able to carry a team to instant success. Kobe is doing the same thing now with a capable second option in Odom, and you say it is an insult to mention T-Mac with Kobe. Your reasoning doesn't make much sence.
If Tracy McGrady is so good, then why does he need Yao to take over games for him when they are both playing? And my reasoning doesnt make sense... you just compared Kobes surrounding teammates to McGradys.... and even compared Odom to Ming, lmao
I compared second options, I never acctually comapred them, I am just saying if Kobe can't do it with a good second option then why do you think Tracy should be able to.Everytime I say Yao needs to take over I say that it is if Tracy is on the bench or injured.None of your points really make him seem overrated.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pistonfan11 @ Aug 16 2006, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I compared second options, I never acctually comapred them, I am just saying if Kobe can't do it with a good second option then why do you think Tracy should be able to.Everytime I say Yao needs to take over I say that it is if Tracy is on the bench or injured.None of your points really make him seem overrated.</div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pistonfan11 @ Aug 15 2006, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am saying that Yao wasn't the player that could take over when Tracy was not injured.</div>All of you points you make are contradicting your previous pointsAnd by comparing second options you actually have to be comparing Yao and Odom... which is a jokeMcGrady is overrated because despite putting up good numbers, he has no success when it really matters
first off, i wanna say very nice job from both of you. the winner in my eyes is surprisingly The Okie. He made some very valid points that i can't disagree with. McGrady just simply isn't a winner. and to PF11, you say that Yao isn't a valid second option bc he couldn't dominate a game. I find two things worng with that. #1, he COULD dominate a game.#2, 2nd options aren't supposed to dominate games, 1st options are. Yao was more than a valid 2nd option, he could've been a good 1st optin if TMac weren't eating up the shots. As the posts went on, it became more and more clear that Okie was the winner of this debate.
