Points in the paint vs 3-pointers

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by B-Roy, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    As of today, the Blazers are last in points in the paint at 30.3 per game. They are also 29th in opponents points in the paint at 48.0. This latest Pistons game probably won't change that.

    And yet they are 5-2. Are points in the paint just not that important anymore? Indiana is undefeated and they only score 35 points in the paint (5th worst in the league). However, they only allow 32.2 as well. (2nd best in the league) Portland's disparity is interesting (and somewhat troubling). I don't know if they can keep winning while keeping this up but it does speak volumes about the 3 point shot.

    Another interesting stat is that Portland is only allowing 15.5 points from 3 point range. (3rd best in the league) They also get 29.9 points from three (4th best in the league). Obviously the three ball is emphasized, but it looks like defending the three is as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  2. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    This team is built for shooting. Live with it, or die with it, that's who we are now. Part of the problem is that we don't double team, so someone like Cousins just eats us up.
     
  3. Yoda_of_the_MODA

    Yoda_of_the_MODA Banned User BANNED

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    It's always a concern, especially on defense. Offensively, simple math says that shooting 33.3% from 3 point is the same as shooting 50% from 2 point. The problem is that you aren't going to get on the line as much being 3-point heavy on offense. That isn't reflected in the 'points in the paint' numbers, though.

    I'll have to wait until 20 games to see if the points in the paint thing is really a concern.
     
  4. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    What annoys me is that I see our guys going into the paint, but they don't get calls. Lillard drives quite a bit, but he certainly doesn't get the kind of calls I would expect for the reigning ROY. Aldridge as well, never gets the kind of calls that a two-time All-Star should get. I saw him draw contact multiple times tonight, but almost never gets a call. Getting hammered in the post with no call will absolutely affect your points in the paint.
     
  5. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    Yes, but the standard for a good shooting team isn't 33% anymore. Players are regularly topping 40% and it wouldn't surprise me if the Blazers end the season somewhere near that.
     
  6. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Is the low 3point % our defense has allowed due to our play on defense or random good luck against teams shooting the 3 poorly?

    Now with points in the paint, I think what matters is the quality of shots we are giving up. Yes Detroit had 60 points in the paint but they said on the radio they took 55 shots to get those. That doesn't hurt us. Now if we are giving up 50 points on 70% shooting its a major problem.

    Our PG defense, and particularly Lillards individual defense, has been a major problem. The points in the paint are usually from PG pick and roll or PG drives. The putbacks that are points in the paint are often when our center has to come over and help defend someone elses man; which they do successfully; but then the opponents center is uncovered for an easy putback.

    So I don't think the points in the paint was much of a problem against Detroit but yes over the season PG defense is a major concern and that breakdown is leading to many bad things on defense including points in the paint.
     
  7. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I think it has a lot to do with not double teaming. We aren't leaving anyone open, which is helping our defense against the three, but it's making it very difficult to stop someone like Cousins.
     
  8. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    The advantage with having such a deadly three ball offense is having the ability to get offensive boards. The three ball spreads the defense and rebounders have a tougher time establishing position. I think our team benefits from this.

    As much of a fan of the inside game I am, I understand the concept of the three ball. It's devastating to work soooo hard to get two, then your opponent comes back and hits a three. If we are shooting 40% or higher throughout the season, it's more valuable to our team than 50% from 2 (insert Brian's point per possession concept here).

    3 things in really keeping an eye on is the rebounding, three point shooting and perimeter defense. Those are the stats that will make this model work!
     
  9. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Once the teams start closing out on us on the three, the lanes should open up for Dame/Wes/Nic to drive and improve our paint production. It's starting already. But we won't ever get to the top of the league in that category with LA's primary scoring options all being 15-20' out. Not sure it matters, either way.
     
  10. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    Points in the paint are important for playoff success.


    The only real issue with out teams offense right now is that the ball doesn't go into the post enough. Shooting threes is fine, but it shouldn't be your teams first option. First option should be pounding the ball down low and kicking if necessary, or driving and kicking if necessary.

    having great 3 point shooting only helps those two things
     
  11. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    I don't know if you saw the shot chart for Aldridge, but 70% of his shots are coming from 0-15 feet. 30% of his shots are 16-23. And more importantly, his right elbow and block shooting is above 50%
     
  12. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    Link? I don't believe this at all. Unfortunately hoopdata doesn't have 13/14 data at this point, but 82games shows that 83% of LMA's shots are jumpers, with only 15% being "close" and only 2% being dunks:
    http://www.82games.com/1314/13POR13.HTM
     
  13. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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  14. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Hello blue? Where ya go bro?!?!
     
  15. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    What the fuck is wrong with you? Give me a minute to look at shit. Plus, I'm doing other things besides posting here.
     
  16. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Nothing is wrong, just pointing out how clearly wrong you are.
     
  17. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, now that I've had a chance to look, it appears you're trying to frame the numbers to make it look like LMA takes more "close" shots than he actually does. Why frame it as "0-15 footers", when the chart you're looking at clearly shows that only 38 of his 142 shots (26.7%) come near the hoop? That's actually semi-encouraging to see that a quarter of his offense is coming near the basket. It's also encouraging to see that it appears he's stepped into a better range - in years past he use to live at the top-left of the key, and this year he's moved in a tad to the left elbow (and left baseline, based on the games I've seen). It's funny that the top-left of the key use to be his "money shot", and this year he hasn't hit from that spot at all.
     
  18. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    The knock was never the 15 footer. It was always the 17-23 footers that everyone bitched about. And looking at the chart, it's pretty easy to understand where he is "money" from. And if you actually watched games, you would see that most of his action are coming from the "blocks". The shots at the rim are usually by him creating those shots. I would recommend you using this link. It will give you a better idea on just how important a player is, then trying to go geek and rate a player by box scores.

    http://stats.nba.com/?ls=iref:nba:gnav&PlayerOrTeam=Player&StatCategory=Points
     
  19. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    What did I say that's incorrect? Both 82games AND your shot chart show that his "near the hoop" numbers aren't as high as you're trying to make them out to be. So while you may be technically correct, you're grouping numbers to paint a pretty picture rather than reporting the numbers that are actually presented in the source(s).
     
  20. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    I said 70% of his shots are coming from 0-15 ft. Obviously you are having a serious "reading comprehension" problem.
     

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