The way I see it, the Warriors have 4 directions to go. When the Amare trade rumor came up, I got really excited and said it would be a no brainer to add Amare at all costs as the Warriors assets do not equal Amare. But then I started to weigh all the pros and cons and to me the cons now outweigh the pros. For the Amare trade to work out for the Warriors, he would have to be the same Amare as he has been: explosive and efficient and injury free. He would also have to commit to an extension. Both of these issues shouldn't be taken lightly by the Warriors. Amare's an amazing talent. He was the man-child before LeBron. He has a great mid-range shot and he can shoot free throws. He can finish with domination and he can finish with finesse. He can set good picks and he knows when to roll. All of that being said, the chance of getting an injury hampered Amare locked up for years with a max contract doesn't sound very exciting to me. I haven't seen any signs of his overall game develop other than what's been mentioned above, and if they do, it will probably take years. I don't want the "mature" version of Amare -- I want the one that can make the backboard sway. Even then, I think I'd rather see a more balanced team that has players that fit certain needs. I think the current roster fills a lot of those needs, even though we've only witnessed glimpses of what could be. I'm willing to give the current roster a chance to see what they can do. Yeah, we might be a little weak at PF with Randolph and Wright, but these guys are super young with a lot to prove. Obviously, the current roster isn't perfect, but the foundation seems pretty good. As of today, I would like the Warriors roll with what they have. I could change my mind by tomorrow, but it seems to me that with the addition of Stephen Curry, a lot has changed. If he really does become our PG of the future, there isn't much more the Warriors need to do to have a balanced team.
I vote "Warriors keep current roster intact" because: • I'm not crazy about the big name free agents out there right. The only two really being mentioned as superstar possibilities are Bosh and Amare. Amare's injuries really scare me a lot and could sink this franchise for years if he can't play and we give away a lot to get him. He's also possibly a malcontent, which we really don't need right now. Neither player is signed for more than this year, and both have problems defensively. So I'm not sold on going after a big name at this time. • I don't believe we need more depth at PF/C. I'm very happy with Biedrins + Turiaf combo and Randolph + Wright is young but actually not even enough minutes for both of then. Then you have Davidson who can backup either position and he's really not bad (and Turiaf can play PF as well). So there's a lot of talent and flexibility at the PF/C positions. • The trade value for some of our pieces is not at the highest level now, for various reasons. Monta (size, defense, health questions), Maggette (contract, defense, ball hog), Jackson (contract), Curry (no experience), Morrow (unproven, suspected one-dimensionality), Azubuike (paid starter money but he's a backup?, defense), Wright (health, motor, mediocre rebounding and defense), Belinelli (health, inconsistency). I feel like playing some of these guys more may increase their trade value more than decrease it. • A lot of the potential trade pieces have not hit their ceilings yet; we don't really know what we have. • Very young team that needs to grow together. Also one that's had more than its share of changes in recent years, which makes it hard to build cohesion and loyalties. I'm not against any trades, I just don't like what's out there right now, or the price being asked.
I voted for make a big name trade. Depth is always good but I'd like to cash in on our depth and marginal young talent for one very good player if possible. Right now this team has no all-stars. We have a lot of good-not-great players but I believe we're more in need of one more very good player than we are the depth that we have. If we can get an Amare, Boozer, Josh Howard, David West, Andrew Bogut, Marcus Camby type player for a couple decent prospects then I would absolutely go for it. Obviously Curry and randolph are virtually untouchable, Monta and Morrow are highly unlikely to go, and Beans is only gonna get moved for an upgrade at PF/C. But if we can get an all-star caliber player for Wright/Beli/Azu plus Beans (again assuming we're getting an all-star big back), Mags, Speedy/Law contracts etc. then I wouldn't think twice.
I like some of those names you mentioned, RBJM, I just wonder how available they are. West or Bogut would really be great, but are they on the block? And at what price? Still not nuts about Amare or Bosh though, for the reasons mentioned above. They're both stars, but I really question whether either is worth a ton of young talent and a max contract.
Are you guys thinking that Beans would be invovled in the Bogut trade? If so, I wholeheartedly disagree. I think he could be good in the right system but I don't think we are it. I think the pick and roll that Monta and Andris have become so good at together will not be nearly as effective with Bogut here. Although, his high post passing would be nice along with Biedrins. I deal Wright and Marco/Azu/Morrow for him but that's it.
I voted make a big name trade, but that's such a broad and qualified statement. I mean, make the right big name trade I would love for the Warriors to make a big-name trade for the right piece that would make them a true danger in the West. Ideally, that would mean trading any combination of Wright/Bellinelli/Azibuike/ and preferably Maggette. But what nobody's talking about, and what makes perfect sense to me, is also trying to trade SJax. I mean, his numbers are so bloated for his contract. On paper, he's one of the best values in the league. And other coaches and GMs know how good of a defender he can be and how much moxy he has in the league. I mean, 20.7 points, 5.1 rebounds, 6.5 assists... those are DWade-light type stats, at only $8 mils a year! I think his trade value is very good right now. So, if we could trade Jax+Bellinelli+Wright, I think that package is nearly as potent as the one with Beans. Ideally, the hope is that Randolph can eventually slide to SF. If that can happen, then a big-name PF would be a perfect fit here. Randolph would replace Jax (if we can move him), and the PF can step right in without taking minutes from Randolph. If the Suns would do something like Jax+Wright+Bellinelli+AC Law, or something, then: Curry / Watson Monta / Morrow Randolph / Mags Amare / Davidson Beans / Turiaf this looks pretty good to me. I'd rather keep Beans if we can, because of his defense and rebounding. And I would love to move Maggette and/or Jackson, because they take mins from the young guys and they are terrible for team basketball, IMO. With the idea that Randolph will slide to the SF eventually, it would be great to try to get a good PF and move Jax/Mags. But it's probably not very realistic.
I'm with you on that. I'm not with you about trading Jack and especially not for Amare. Jack is pretty much the only leader we have in the locker room, I want him around if Amare is coming because I trust him to keep everyone in check. Also, as I've said before, I don't think we would get back equal value for Jack because hes more valuable to us than he would be to other teams. Teams also aren't willing to give much for a 30 year old player with like 5 years left on his deal. I think there is a decent market for Jack right now as a lot of contenders are gearing up and trying to add big name players. LAL just got Artest I would think that means Hou (they seem to be trying to contend at all costs) and Cleveland are that much more desperate for a big name player. But what would we get from them? At best they would give us back expiring contracts. Also I see Randolph as a 4. I want him around the rim as much as possible. Hes allegedly grown to 6'11-7'0 (I don't believe it but hes got PF height for sure), hes gonna get stronger and heavier with age, and he seems to struggle keeping up defensively on the perimeter as it is. I think hes better at the 4 right now and I think its a much, much better investment to commit him to the 4 now and develop him as a 4. I'd rather have a great 4 than a great 3. Hes already an excellent rebounder, shotblocker, good on the pick and roll. He got some SF skills but I think you'd be doing the team a disservice by keeping him on the perimiter, out of rebounding position, out of shot blocking position, defending and being defended by guys who are quicker than he is. Up to this point we've seen he rebounds and plays D like a PF, his biggest advantage on offense is quickness over bigger PFs, it would be wasted if we had him at SF where guys can stay in front of him.
I'm voting we don't make a big name trade unless we're getting a franchise big name. Y'know the type that makes others better and does his position's role on both ends of the floor? The rest is all done by drafting and acquiring free agents. Something the warriors have been terrible at because we overpay our players at the end of their rookie scale contracts so we can't acquire the free agents we want, or we blow all our money on one free agent that ain't worth it.
As far as the Amare trade, I was so for it in the beginning then I started thinking how wrong things could go. I've backed off quite a bit on that. But, I would obviously be open to the idea of the RIGHT big-name trade. But, that would require all the stars to align and I just don't see that happening right now. I voted for keep the team intact simply because I want to see a full-season of this lineup grow and develop (without injuries): Beans/Turiaf/Davidson Randolph/Wright/Davidson Sjax/Maggette/Azubuike Ellis/Morrow/Belinelli Curry/Ellis/Law(?) That's 12 players right there and obviously, there's not enough minutes to go around for a lot of them to get burn. Even if the Warriors traded Wright and Belinelli (along with Beans), there's still a logjam at the wing positions. It sucks because all those guys deserve to play and/or have to play due to their contracts. You don't just sit Maggette as much as people would be content with that. So, I do think a trade is coming, but it might only be for cap relief and/or clear the logjam at the wing positions. Not to bring in a big name. If you can achieve both, then kudos to the front office. I won't hold my breath.
I would have chosen other, but it just makes better sense to keep the roster (basically) intact for at least a year. The one exception is that the team really needs to trade Maggette for a veteran point to help guide the team, basically be a coach on the floor. If you think about it, some of these players never had that luxury - some of the older guys were able to play with Baron, but even he's quite unorthodox. Curry's never had the chance to be anything but the main man, Randolph and Morrow missed out as well. Jackson is a good leader but it's not an easy job to do alone, and Maggette's selfish play can't set a good example. It doesn't have to be someone spectacular, but someone steady with good leadership. If the Warriors don't grow or improve after that, then it'll probably be time for some kind of blowup, although naturally as I've posted before, this occurs in about 3 years down the road. It's just not worth it to go after someone big-name right now, because it's too early to compete and we might as well use a year to develop players.
If the current Warriors continue to develop (as individuals and as teammates), say in two years, their trade value will be ten-fold than it is right now. Imagine the market for Sjax, Maggette, Ellis, or Beans in a couple years. Their contracts will only have a couple years left and hopefully their skills still intact or hopefully, improved.
I voted to make the big name trade, but do agree it has to be the *right* big name. We would have gotten burned bad if we landed Elton Brand and he seemed like the right big name at the time. Thus, it just goes to show how things could turn ugly fast even with the right big name. That said, what do you guys think about David Lee? He can play center and can rebound, play D, pass, shoot FTs and score from outside. I think he'll be an improvement over AB, but David Lee by himself will not get us to the playoffs. Ok, he's a free agent, but in order to make space for him, it would be better to make a sign-and-trade. If we get Lee, then we can keep Brandan Wright because Lee should not be as expensive as Amare. Lee is shorter than AB, but remember those huge 30 pt, 20 rebs games Lee had last season for the Knicks.
I'm more on board with Randolph-Biedrins future front line than I am with a Curry-Monta future backcourt or a Monta-as-PG backcourt. Thus I would say my target isn't another big man unless someone gets hurt or traded off. That probably also explains most of my reasoning above. What I wouldn't mind is a different look, a big man who can shoot the ball, to get in that rotation for stretches especially on the weaker-offensive second unit. I do think that a proven inside presence is common sense way to go, but though having Don Nelson as coach prevents me from seeing this as a realistic option, throwing common sense out of the window. Unfortunately, I don't think that type of shooting big man is available for us (the only guy available is Rasheed Wallace and he's not going to sign with us). So, that is basically why Lee is kind of out of the picture just based on a getting fit into the team and getting minutes on the team, at least in my opinion. I love Lee, but I rather just go with Randolph for now since we need upgrades, and we do have potential upgrades sitting on our bench right now, waiting for playing time. If even one or two emerged to be worthy of a continuing to play in the NBA, it'd be a good start to getting some trades done or evaluating what we really need.
I like Chris Wilcox. Cheaper than David Lee and I think just as effective. He runs and can match-up well with big centers. The dude is huge (muscular). I guess he's had some injury problems but every time he plays the Warriors he bangs and gets tons of rebounds, scores in transition and in half-court. If we're going to get any FA, that's who I'd like the Warriors to look into. A good alternative if Wright doesn't work out as a backup PF. Our front court would be pretty solid with Beans/Turiaf/Randolph/Wright/Wilcox.
David Lee or Chris Wilcox would be welcome additions. We need players who can scrap and we need two of them that Nelson can play at the same time together. I swear we were so much better when we did Turiaf + Biedrins or Biedrins + Wright or Turiaf + Wright or Turiaf + Randolph. Size matchups were killing us so much that we got beat inside and out. Big men are so valuable that I think Beans was the best guy on our team. Whatever lineup we had out there, I almost felt Beans was the MVP of the team, not Jackson... and I dig Jackson's all around game that I don't mind his Nick Van Exel-esque shot selection and I don't care defense because nobody else is playing it. It was beans who was just outhustling the other team's rebounders and he did it without much help from his teammates in boxing out.
Yeah, you make great points there. My brother offered the same insights to me. I guess in my view if you can get a tall guy to develop small man skills, and move to a smaller position, then you get more size on the court without giving up the technical skills and mobility. I mean, LeBron is a PF type body, so when you play him at SG or PG, and put another PF in the game, too, then you get a ton of muscle and size, but you don't lose much at SG/PG because LeBron is an outside player and slasher with mobility. Look at Magic -- one of his biggest assets to the Lakers championship teams was that he brought more size and power to the floor while still running a smooth PG. Or Tayshaun Prince, a 6' 9" guy that can defend SGs and run faster than them on the break and hit the jumper. But this doesn't really work for Randolph, you're right. Even though he could probably slide to SF with the right training, he's probably not best suited there. His game is interior -- blocking shots, put-backs, dunks, loose balls, etc. It's just when I see him do the and-one cross over and just glue a PF to the floor while drives around him or floats a jumper, it's like damn! this dude could play point-forward or even SF. But he's never going to be a three-point shooter (probably), which Nellie practically demands out of his SFs, and you're right, it doesn't make sense to keep him on the perimeter when he thrives around the bucket. So, I guess then, I hope instead of sliding to SF, I hope the reports are true that he's put on 15-20 pounds and has grown an inch or two (which is what I've read). So, assuming Randolph stays at PF, then my whole philosophy changes (can I get a mulligan?) First off, NO MORE AMARE! If Randolph is going to be our PF, then hell no I don't want Amare at center. I love the dude, he's a pogo stick and a beast, but you know Nellie will play him at center, and frankly I'd rather keep he extra dollars, the extra chips and have my man Beans playing defense and rebounding. The best part of Beans' game, and why he's so valuable to this particular team (and this particular style) is that he doesn't need touches. There are already so many hands that need touches on this team, and in most Nellie systems, that Beans is the perfect compliment. He can do his dirty work, set screens for the pick n' roll, and be damn effective without ever asking for the ball. Amare, on the other hand, wants 20+ touches a night, and frankly, at center I wouldn't want him to get that many iso plays. We already have Monta, Jax, Randolph, Mags, and now Curry, who all can put up 20+ shots in a flash. So that's why I like Beans at center. And if Randolph is at PF, well then there's no room for another PF. So, frankly, I don't know what this team needs now. I love our current line-up of: Curry Monta Jax Randolph Biedrins Assuming it is this way and assuming Monta doesn't mind giving the reins up to Curry. Honestly, I'd stand pat with this line-up. As far as the bench, well, let's see the whole depth chart right now: Curry / Watson Monta / Bellinelli Jax / Azibuike / Morrow / Maggette Randolph / Wright Beans / Turiaf Inactive Roster: Speedy, Law, Davidson? Gone: Kurz? Remember, only 12 players with three inactive. So, looking at what I assume would be the active roster, we've got a lot of SF. I guess Morrow and Azu can come in at SG at times. But still. And I don't see where Jamareo Davidson fits on the roster, because I don't see who you will trade him out for. So, to me, we're looking a little thin at the big man positions. Ideally, we would get another center, because Turiaf is an undersized back-up who should probably be playing PF anyway. Like, a Camby type center who is taller. That would be great, although wold Camby be cool as a back-up, and worth the $$? I'm asking myself, how can we trade Maggette to clear some space at SF... maybe swap him for Camby?
If we stand pat, I think we'll have the SJax-AB-BW/Mags front line, and think Buike will get some major minutes along with SJax at SF. I doubt Nelson starts AR even though he will start Curry and Ellis in the backcourt. Well, I'm just speculating based on what he has said in the media. It could change once we get summer league and the pre-season over with, and with Nelson, changing his mind like the weather is more the norm. I don't think we sign Chris Wilcox, because we got Mags and BW. He just takes up more cap space and we need to play our players. As for the back court, I think re-signing Watson should be a priority as insurance. Yeah, we got Curry as starter and Law, but both are untested and we could easily lose Watson as the top FAs are picked off one-by-one.
I actually believe Nellie when he says hes starting AR at PF because AR proved he can play at the end of the year. Granted, he was playing largely due to injuries, you could tell Nellie had a lot more trust in him then than he did earlier in the year. I also think Wright secretly drives Nellie nuts because hes a crappy rebounder and isn't very intense lol. I don't, however, completely believe him when he says Curry is gonna start from day one. Hes got NBA skill, a good enough handle at PG and could be the best passer on the team from day one but hes still a rookie and still pretty slight as far as body type. I think Curry is a sharp guy and probably pretty NBA ready but I just don't know if Nellie is gonna hand over the reigns like that when Monta and Watson have the edge of knowing the system. I think he'll be starting by December (Riley hinted that Curry probably wouldn't start right away but hes not the coach). Remember how Nellie said Belinelli would be a starter, Monta would come off the bench, Murphy at C and Dunny at PF, POB was the future, etc. He tends to scrap those plans within the first week of the season often times. As for Watson, I hear Riley is a huge fan of his so he'll probably be back. Gotta love his money mid-range and 3 pt shot but I don't see much else to like about him. I've read that he gets a pretty fair amount of interest form other teams seeking a cheap backup PG. To be honest if we could S&T him for anything relatively valuable I would do it. Then again, hes nice to have on the roster if he comes cheap.
I voted for a Big name trade. You guys have a lot of perimeter pieces and some interesting prospects in your front court. You have a lot to offer certain teams and too much depth not to go out and turn that into something.
