These freeloaders can't handle paying for a fraction of their benefits. Check out the bolded. This Kim Hoffman moron thinks that what amounts to a $205k combined income (7% reduction = $1200 month for her) is an everyday occurrence in the private sector.
I guess we'll just have to lose this fine woman's contribution. I'll be interested to see how many of these teachers actually quit once unions and tenure is gone. My position is the same as Chris Christie's: Good riddance. This struggle is like the Spanish Civil War--just a precursor to a much larger conflict over the same ideas. My personal position is that all public unions should be outlawed. Too many times those in position to give more benefits are beholden to those people to those on which they can confer favors. Employment is a choice. If people find government work so distasteful, they're free to leave.
Public-sector freeloaders, your ride is almost over. Time to "pay" your fair share (even though it is still the private sector providing for you). Can't wait until this happens in Oregon. http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/02/labor-leaders-living-large/
Did anyone else see that the Madison School District shut down yesterday because 40% of the teachers called in sick to demonstrate? Ann Althouse is all over this story: http://althouse.blogspot.com/
Most of them are at the capitol today protesting what amounts to a 7% reduction in pay. I doubt that the private citizens facing 100% reductions in pay will have much sympathy for these selfish freeloaders.
It should also be pointed out that the fire and police unions are not a part of this bill, which I agree with. They serve an irreplaceable public duty, and should keep all negotiating leverage.
The cartoon you posted said it all. My mother's friend is a teacher in the PPSS who was making $55K a year. She "retired" (locking in her $55K salary as a retirement benefit) and made a "wink-wink" arrangement with her principal where she was then hired back as a "permanent substitute". That job pays her a little over $60K. So for the same job, she more than doubled her salary, and she's still ensured that nice minimum 8% return in her retirement thanks to the "negotiation" with the State. And all I do is hear her bitch about her job. It makes we want to scream.
WI Senate Dems fled the Capitol so the GOP couldn't hold a vote and are rumored to be heading out of state. They need 20 senators for a quorum; there are only 19 GOP members.
Seems like an organic, spur-of-the-moment gathering! http://media.jsonline.com/images/650*433/mjs-hearing_-nws_-sears_-8.jpg Also, Obama has taken sides, as Carney said today that this is "an assault on unions". Yes, how dare the WI taxpayers want to try and limit how much of our money these freeloaders can take from them. Update - now even Obama's own "Organizing for America" website is trying to bus people to Madison. http://ht.ly/3YtKS This could be our own Egypt, except the unions will be busted, and not the taxpayers.
where are the pro-union folks in this thread? Regardless of political preference, is it not considered a dereliction of your duty as a public servant to not show up at a vote? And if the President/gov't is involved, why isn't it to say "get your ass back there and do your job"?
the same thing is happening with teachers unions here in CA right now. They don't want to pay for 25% of their benefits so they're going to threaten layoffs to gather public sympathy.
It won't work. Those days are over. People that can't even put money into their own retirements are made to pay for these leeches' pensions? It's not like it's the leeches money, anyhow. They just can't steal as much from the taxpayers, so a little bit of it will have to be recycled into their pensions they aren't paying for in the first place. I'm glad this is happening. I hope once Oregon goes tits up, if it hasn't already, something can be done about the PERS scam that is bankrupting all of us.
I'm not a big fan of the education unions, but I have to admit to cringing when I hear the teacher for my 6 year old next year referred to as a "leech." Seems like there's got to be a way to respectfully disagree with somebody who really does serve an important purpose in our society without demonizing them. People are talking about this strictly from the "pro-union" and "anti-union" perspective. I wish we could get beyond that and get into the "pro-making our kids smarter than those Finland know-it-alls." There was a time where we actually used to strive for bigger national objectives. Not everything was simply pro/anti, be it immigration, teaching or whatever. I personally think we should focus on paying teachers $95k+/year. Make the class sizes 35-40 students each. Do away with tenure. Teachers making that kind of money won't want to pay for unions. Make them meet the highest certifications possible. Put cameras in the classroom that monitor teacher performance. Have a review board comprised of teachers and PTA members review random samplings plus other data every few years and do an up or down vote on whether the teacher continues on. Pay the bare minimum for support staff (principles, administration, district staff, etc) so that they are no longer "prestige" jobs. But I'm open to other ideas. It just feels like we're going to kill all the unions and then pat ourselves on the back for a job well done in saving money. When that really isn't the point. The point is to spend our money in the smartest way possible to produce the smartest kids that our society can afford.
Teachers are far from underpaid. They work less hours and less number of days and have way better job security than the general populace.
If teachers worked the number of days/hours of an average worker, it would be close to the equivalent of 100k a year. I did the math on another board. Average number of school days: *http://ask.yahoo.com/20050509.html 180 days. Lets assume 10 more days (2 weeks) for teacher's inservice, setting up before school year, etc (that is being generous) so 190 days total. versus the number of work days. 260 days vacations =14 days holidays=10 days vacation. 260-14-10=236 so on average 236 days. So...per year, a teacher making 60k per year would be equivalent of another working $74,500 per year if based on time actually "worked". Furthermore, since they only "work" 6 hours per day, the "real" equivalent for work performed is about $100k per year.
You can debate class size---I don't have all the details and what I do know is generally anecdotal from my sister-in-law (a 1st-grade teacher). But my dad went to private school in the 60's where one nun taught 50-60 kids. Most of my schooling up to high school was in DoD schools where 30 kids was a small class. we both turned out ok.
IMO, the biggest problem with this line of thinking is that the teachers are only a small part of what determines how well a child learns. The parents are far and away a more important influence than the teacher, and in this country we have become lazy, ignorant and won't take responsibility for ourselves. We have started to pass that on to our kids, we don't hold our own kids accountable, everybody is a winner, and then we blame the teachers when the kids are idiots, etc, etc. Paying teachers more money won't help these problems.
The teachers' union in Wisconsin are acting like leeches. Why shouldn't they put exactly the same amount of money into their health insurance premiums, for example, than those in the private sector. Also, is asking them to put a mere 5.8% of their taxpayer-funded salary into their guaranteed public pension that outrageous of an idea? It's not like the governor or the GOP is trying to shut down public unions completely, although if the Dems keep acting this way, that may become public sentiment. I know and respect my kids' teachers for being teachers, I volunteer at the school, but that doesn't mean they should have ridiculous lifetime advantages over the people paying for them, does it? Based on the stunt Organizing for America helped pull today, it's clear to me that when Obama called for us all to sacrifice, he wasn't including public service workers in his call to action.
You really think teachers only work 6 hours per day? The school day itself is longer than that and teachers don't clock out as soon as that bell rings. Plus, you need to factor in out of pocket expenses that the teachers incur. My fiance's dad probably spends at least $1000 per year on various school projects. He's far from the norm, but I'm sure he's not the only one out there like that.
