There has been alot of comparisons of how Dirk has exceeded KG and I just have a question. With the Mavericks ousting, does that really mean that Dirk is so much greater than KG? I pose this for this reason, the Mav's DID make it to the Finals, but look at his help. Healthy Terry, Stackhouse, and Howard (I believe). They were beat by Flash and Shaq. Wolves DID make it to WCF. We were beat by Kobe, Shaq, "Big Shot Bob". No Cassell. Next year, Spree and Cassell were non-factors due to greed and injuries. Mavs came back at full strength and won all of these games just to have their "M.V.P." do a total no-show. Look at his stats, would KG not have found a way to add more to his total boxscore and given effort to make his mark? Dirk is 7' whose only "X - Power" is to be a tough matchup for the oppositions 4 and 5 (even though Baron Davis can and has guarded him). He's going to grab some rebounds due to his height. But look at the supporting cast for each. If they swapped teams, what would the change be to their respective organizations? If KG were in Dallas, would they not make some noise in the playoffs? If Dirk were on the Wolves, would they not struggle. Kobe is one of the highest rated players in the NBA, and he has to score 50 a night almost for his team to get wins. I'm not saying KG is godly or anything, but I can't believe that he would just not show up to a game this important. Your team, who was favored to be the champs, are going home if you don't stop it. You gotta put together a valiant effort and leave it on the floor. Dirk had nightmares last season, what will go through his head now?
I wonder how KG feels watchin a guy like Dirk having all the good players around him and choking in the playoffs like that.
You mean puttin' up 20 and 10 a night and having his team and his coach collapsing all around him??? I'm sure KG knows what it's like to choke in the playoffs because he's done it so often, but I dunno, since he hasn't been in the playoffs for years. KG would add to his boxscore, that I'm not disputing, but I know he wouldn't add anything in the last minutes of the game. KG's clutch stats in the games that Minnesota played well in are pretty abominable for a "star" like him. As a matter of fact, going back over the course of his entire career, his clutch stats are pretty indefensible. Check out 82games.com for the stats. I'm not saying you can get all the facts from stats alone, but I have seen KG come up short more than not in fourth quarters. Dallas was favored to be the champs??? Really??? Before this season started, you really thought they were the favorites??? Funny, people with actual money on the line didn't think so. The Vegas odds had the Mavs as the third most likely team to win it. The so called "experts" didn't think so either, they also had the Mavs behind the Spurs, but neck and neck with the Suns. So who actually had Dallas favored???
<div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You mean puttin' up 20 and 10 a night and having his team and his coach collapsing all around him??? I'm sure KG knows what it's like to choke in the playoffs because he's done it so often, but I dunno, since he hasn't been in the playoffs for years.</div> See the highlights above....that's what KG gets when he finally made it to the playoffs As noted on the post previously, swap Dirk and KG and tell me if they wouldn't be close to where they both were at seasons end? I got a question for you, when was the last time the Wolves were in a playoff series when they were the favorite? Are you saying the Wolves have the same talent as the Mavs? Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse (post season MVP), and Josh Howard. Compare that 5 to any combination of Wolves. <div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Dallas was favored to be the champs??? Really??? Before this season started, you really thought they were the favorites??? Funny, people with actual money on the line didn't think so. The Vegas odds had the Mavs as the third most likely team to win it. The so called "experts" didn't think so either, they also had the Mavs behind the Spurs, but neck and neck with the Suns. So who actually had Dallas favored???</div> I don't know who your experts are and what where you got your info. Dallas made it to the finals. Everyone felt they got cheated and came back intact. The thinking was that they would battle the Suns for the West. The reason that a lot of people had the Spurs just slightly behind them is because of their age. I don't know where you are but I've heard it a million times, that the Spurs have gotten older. I've seen a few writers that say, "Don't forget the Spurs", and I have always agreed that until the final buzzer, I would fear them, but the media had given to the teams above. quote from another poster: huevonkiller Why is Duncan not in the MVP talk? That's completely ridiculous, Duncan is a better overall player, has the offensive/defensive production of an MVP, and wins Championships with less talent. The media barely talks about the Spurs until the post-season rolls around.
My info was from sportsbooks.com and various other Vegas bookmakers. Vegas odds had the Mavericks as the third most likely team to win. <font color=""Red"">***** </font> By my count, the last series the Wolves were supposed to win was against the Lakers in 2004. The Wolves were a higher seed with home court advantage. In 2002 against the Mavericks, Dirk got the better of KG while KG was "choking" the final minutes away. Head to head, Dirk handed the more experienced and more hyped KG his freakin' lunch. Dirk took a broom to KG's backside and showed him where to go fishing in the offseason. Come again when you have something important to post or numbers you can support. <font color=""red"">* Please refrain from harrassing other posters. - VC </font>
<div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">My info was from sportsbooks.com and various other Vegas bookmakers. Vegas odds had the Mavericks as the third most likely team to win. <font color=""Red"">***** </font> By my count, the last series the Wolves were supposed to win was against the Lakers in 2004. The Wolves were a higher seed with home court advantage. In 2002 against the Mavericks, Dirk got the better of KG while KG was "choking" the final minutes away. Head to head, Dirk handed the more experienced and more hyped KG his freakin' lunch. Dirk took a broom to KG's backside and showed him where to go fishing in the offseason. Come again when you have something important to post or numbers you can support. <font color=""red"">* Please refrain from harrassing other posters. - VC </font></div> A) So the only opinions that you heard were from gambling sites and such? There are a lot of other areas or sites with opinions that varied. Does that mean that if there is not money of the table that your opinion doesn't matter? Even after the Mavs went on their historical run this season, they were favorites. The Spurs were "Older" and the Suns would be an excellent 7-game series but the Mavs would win out to take another shot at the title and revenge. When did you check these proposed sites? Before the season, All-Star break, Playoff run? The only way you can truly gauge head to head comparison is if the players are playing one-on-one. If I can recall, didn't Dirk have Nash and Finley? What all-stars did KG have? In KG's M.V.P. season, they were booted by the Lakers. C) Like I stated before, The Wolves lost to the Lakers which only shows that it's not about seedings but about matchups........but when 1 team wins 25 more games with the leagues M.V.P., you'd think they could figure something out. When the Wolves and Lakers played, there was a difference of 2 games with possibly 4 H.O.F.'ers. "......In 2002 against the Mavericks, Dirk got the better of KG while KG was "choking" the final minutes away. Head to head, Dirk handed the more experienced and more hyped KG his freakin' lunch. Dirk took a broom to KG's backside and showed him where to go fishing in the offseason." Sorry, but the "team" is called the Dallas Mavericks, Not "The Dirk Maverick" and Dirk never has and never will sweep any team anywhere. It's a shame that you act like Dirk is playing a team sport with a bunch on scarecrows and don't give credit to his teammates. Even Jordan had Pippen, Paxson, and Jud "The Stud" Buechler.
Check your stats before making all your claims. Simple fact is that pre-season, Dallas was ranked as the third most likely team to win the championship. The reason I use betting lines is the fact that money is involved. It's easy to say this or that when your money isn't on the line, so get that straight. If you didn't know what All-Stars KG had with him, then why are you even making this argument??? Obviously, I have supported my arguments with stats and facts, while you continue to spout off rhetoric. Once again, please, when you have something of importance to contribute, post on here. You asked what series the Wolves were favored in, and I provided a rebuttal, yet now you come up with different conditions to your argument??? Sounds to me as if you're just unsatisfied with the facts. I'm not saying that Dirk is really doing it all himself. Surely enough, he has been fortunate to have fairly capable teams surrounding him. But I will say that when the T-Wolves and Mavs play against each other, it revolves around KG and Dirk's matchup, does it not??? And going by that series, Dirk clearly wins that pivotal matchup easily, defensively and offensively. It's difficult to compare their stats otherwise because of the fact that KG is the focal point in the Wolve's plan of attack, and their defense revolves around funneling attackers to him. So to be able to have a fair comparison, I like to look at head to head matchups, and that is where Dirk excels over KG.
<div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Check your stats before making all your claims. Simple fact is that pre-season, Dallas was ranked as the third most likely team to win the championship. The reason I use betting lines is the fact that money is involved. It's easy to say this or that when your money isn't on the line, so get that straight.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Sabretooth:</div><div class="quote_post"> So the only opinions that you heard were from gambling sites and such? There are a lot of other areas or sites with opinions that varied. Does that mean that if there is not money of the table that your opinion doesn't matter? </div> You got me there if that's your argument. I don't do the vegas odds. I only go with friends, family, office pools, forums, espn and like sites, media, and such like that. Pretty much what the average person goes with. So what you're saying is if 1 million people thought the Mavs were going to win but didn't bet and 50 people bet that the Spurs would, the opinion is since there was money involved, that means the masses don't count. So kudos to you and your bookies. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you didn't know what All-Stars KG had with him, then why are you even making this argument??? Obviously, I have supported my arguments with stats and facts, while you continue to spout off rhetoric. Once again, please, when you have something of importance to contribute, post on here.</div> Billups before he found his groove and was a journeyman and Wally who is a tweener for starting and 6th man. Guess you missed my point there and now know that I can't deal in gestures or implications. <div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You asked what series the Wolves were favored in, and I provided a rebuttal, yet now you come up with different conditions to your argument??? Sounds to me as if you're just unsatisfied with the facts.</div> I guess you didn't understand my point. The Wolves were favored to win and lost to the Lakers (which I stated in the beginning of the thread) yet the Mavericks lost the last 2 seasons to teams they were supposed to beat. The argument wasn't changed but your love of facts came in about the difference in records just to say there should have been adjustments. <div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not saying that Dirk is really doing it all himself. Surely enough, he has been fortunate to have fairly capable teams surrounding him. But I will say that when the T-Wolves and Mavs play against each other, it revolves around KG and Dirk's matchup, does it not??? And going by that series, Dirk clearly wins that pivotal matchup easily, defensively and offensively. It's difficult to compare their stats otherwise because of the fact that KG is the focal point in the Wolve's plan of attack, and their defense revolves around funneling attackers to him. So to be able to have a fair comparison, I like to look at head to head matchups, and that is where Dirk excels over KG.</div> Show me the one-on-one stats....waiting....what do you mean? KG's the only stud the Wolves have and gets double and triple-teamed when he gets the ball? I thought since Dirk "clearly wins that pivotal matchup easily, defensively and offensively", they'd just have him shut KG down to 8 - 2 - 1.
Who thought the Mavs were gonna even be in the Finals last year??? Even your "source" ESPN didn't have the Mavs as the favorites heading into the season, so once again, check your stats. You ask about all-stars and throw all the ones Dirk played with, but they weren't All-Stars when the Mavs and Timberwolves hooked up in that series. Dirk wasn't even an All-Star yet, but he clearly outplayed KG. The whole point is the fact that your point is wrong. I don't have to understand much to understand that you're just not admitting to your wrong assumptions.
