Question about quantum entanglement

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Further, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Further

    Further Guy

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    Two particle are entangled. They switch back and forth between up spin and down spin, always one each way. Once one is observed as either up or down spin, the paired particle will also be the opposite spin. That is my understanding of entanglement.

    They have done experiments where the two particles are separated by hundreds of kilometers and still the instance one spin is observed, the other is noted to be the opposite spin. From what I understand, this instantaneous recognition of particle spin direction occurs faster than the speed of light. Is this correct? How can that be? Does this mean there is a force faster than the speed of light?

    Did this question even make sense? I can try and rephrase my question if I was babbling.
     
  2. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I don't know that they switch back and forth, but yes, if you observe one, the other has the opposite state.
    Quickest way to get to acceptance of this is to picture them not as two particles, but as two aspects of a single "thing".
    It's quite hard to explain, because it's so at odds with our normal reality. However, the physics does work.

    barfo
     
  3. kingstealth

    kingstealth Suspended

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    (speculation of course on my part). first great question. second maybe Darkmatter is the force or Darkenergy
     
  4. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    If you replace the words entangled or entanglement with the word sin or sinning it will all become very clear.
     
  5. Further

    Further Guy

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    That's for a mags thread :ghoti:
     
  6. Further

    Further Guy

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    Welcome to the off topic section. :cheers:
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Sorta like when you spin everything to the left, it makes you dizzy and barf-o.
     
  8. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    They are part of one higher-dimensional object. They are connected outside our space.

    Similarly, 2-D creatures living in a line (a 2-D universe) would not know that points they think are disconnected, actually have an arc connecting the 2 points. The arc, bending outside their linear universe, would be visible to us 3-D creatures.

    As they used to say in 1970, if everyone tried acid just once, this would be a much smarter world.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  9. Further

    Further Guy

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    The implication of your assertion would be that all points are connected through another plane making faster than speed of light travel just a matter of figuring out how to move within the alternant plane or dimension. Something sounds wrong with this, but I don't have enough knowledge to break it down.

    Oh, I've had my share of acid, it helps with some things, not mathematics.
     
  10. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I take it the force is always there between the two particles, it doesn't travel distance over time like light. Some what like the gravity of the Sun is always with us to bend us to our orbit, not delayed 8 minutes like the light we see. A different force to be sure, but not one forced to a rate of travel in distance and time.
     
  11. 3RA1N1AC

    3RA1N1AC 00110110 00111001

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    I once got my ampallang entangled in a fourchette
     
  12. Further

    Further Guy

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    Gravity is slower than the speed of light. Other forces I know of all operate slower than the speed of light.

    I'm just confused, I've been thinking about this question for a couple weeks.
     
  13. TripTango

    TripTango Quick First Step

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    Let me ask you this, GOD: can you devise a method by which quantum entanglement might be used to transmit useful information (say, something in Morse code) faster than the speed of light? If not, the speed limit of light is considered safe.

    It's "spooky action at a distance", for sure, but there's no evidence that anything (in terms of energy) is actually being "transmitted" across large distances when the effect takes place.
     
  14. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Seems like a correlation/causation question. Does the spin-reversal of one particle cause the spin-reversal of the other, or is an external event responsible for causing the instantaneous spin-reversal of both particles?
     
  15. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    I wish I knew. Now you got my need to learn all up in arms. Gonna have to study this! Nice topic!
     
  16. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    it makes sense, but the answer is nobody knows what's going on ontologically with QM. it's still a complete mystery. most popular interpretations do violate relativity (are "non-local"), although a few unpopular ones guess at things like temporally backwards causation attempting to preserve it.
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Aren't they transmitting music FTL using QE?
     
  18. Further

    Further Guy

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    Well, it does seem quite possible that something like communication (morse code) would be a great use of entanglement, however there is the problem that once a particle is observed, the entanglement is broken. So we could conceivably communicate one dot of information, but then that particle would be useless in future communication. Also, all we can do is observe, so I don't know how the mere observation can be employed as communication. So that's really two big problems with using entanglement in communication.

    However, and I don't know how, but I think i do remember reading that QE is important in quantum computing. Not sure, I can't surmise how.

    Anyway, I suppose this is your point, that if the QE is unusable then it's speed of action is moot. But this just seems an area where we will one day be able to exploit. Interesting either way.
     
  19. Further

    Further Guy

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    So then my questions are the same questions being asked by theoretical physicists? I just assumed there was a known answer and I was simply unaware or incapable of understanding the answer. Unfortunately, if the pros are thinking on this topic, I'll never figure it out with a laymans knowledge. Quick everyone, lets fund more research and get to the bottom of this.
     
  20. Further

    Further Guy

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