Scouting the PGs This year, there is a decent crop of point guards. The two who seem to get the most attention, are high schoolers. This is basically the American PG's because I haven't seen the foreign players. 1. Shaun Livingston - 6'7" - 170 pounds - High School Senior - Peoria Central - At 6'7", Livingston is the new style of NBA point guard, big. He is a pass first player, with scoring being the last thing. An extremely good ball handler, but needs to put on weight and muscle. Jumpshot also needs work, like many of these young high schooler's. Projection: Top 5 pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 18 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 5.7 APG, 3.0 SPG, 2.2 BPG, .509 FG %, .782 FT %, .338 3FG % Rivals Hoops High School Top 100 Ranking: Overall - #2. Position - #1. (Shaun had verbally committed to Duke, but later entered the NBA Draft) 2. Ben Gordon - 6'2" - 195 pounds - Junior - Connecticut - Gordon was a SG in college. He has amazing quickness, and handle, and gets into the lane with ease. Will be a combo guard, but his size holds him back to be a primary point man. Ability to run a team is questionable, but his scoring is not. He has a wide array of moves, and a good jumpshot with plenty of range. Ben is an extremely explosive player. His biggest weakness will probably come when he tries to convert from a college scorer to an NBA point guard. He will need to focus more on running the team, and controlling the ball and game, then scoring. Projection: Top 10 pick, possibly top 5. 2003-04 Statistics ? 18.5 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, .434 FG %, .829 FT %, .433 3FG % 3. Devin Harris ? 6?3? ? 185 pounds ? Junior ? Wisconsin ? Athletic player, with quickness and speed. Has a decent jump shot with range, but definitely needs work to be more effective because he is inconsistent. He is a long player, helps him when driving the lane. Devin is a good passer, was one of the most underrated players on the national scene. Needs to get stronger to improve on his defense. Looks like a promising prospect. Projection : Top 7 pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 19.5 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, .459 FG %, .792 FT %, .373 3FG % " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/devin-harris-hd.jpg"></a> 4. Sebastian Telfair - 6'0" - 170 pounds - High School Senior - Lincoln - Telfair is also a quick, scoring guard. Reminds me of his cousin, Stephon Marbury. Very explosive player, and driving into the lane and finishing is a big part of his game. At times, his jumpshot is deadly, and other times, he cannot hit the ocean. Extremely good passer because of his court vision. The biggest problem with his game is shooting, and his biggest problem is size, but a good player is a good player. Projection: Middle first round, probable lottery pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 33.2 PPG, 9.2 APG, 3.7 RPG, 3.0 SPG, .534 FG %, .738 FT %, .45 3FG % Rivals Hoops High School Top 100 Ranking: Overall - #6. Position - #2. (Sebastian had verbally committed to Louisville, but later entered the NBA Draft) 5. Jameer Nelson - 5'11" - 185 pounds - Senior - St. Joseph's - Nelson was the best PG in college basketball last season, and arguably the best player. Size is a big issue. Very strong and quick, which is a great combo for an NBA point guard. Good jumpshot, with some range, and very good in transition. Good passer, and a very good rebounder for someone of his height. If he was bigger, he would have been a lottery pick last year. In college, he would get sloppy with the ball, something he needs to work on to be a good NBA point guard. Projection : ? Top 15, probably lottery pick. 2003-04 Statistics ? 20.6 PPG, 5.3 APG, 4.7 RPG, 3.0 SPG, .475 FG %, .792 FT %, .390 3FG % (Jameer tested NBA waters last summer at the NBA Draft camp in Chicago, but decided on going back to college) " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/jam...nelson-hd.jpg"></a> 6. Chris Duhon ? 6?1? ? 190 pounds ? Senior ? Duke ? Duhon is the ultimate floor leader. He was a 4 year starter at Duke. Doesn?t have an amazing jumpshot, or a killer crossover, but he can run a team. Very high basketball IQ, and he knows what to do with the basketball on the floor. Definitely needs to improve outside shot. Will knock down the jumper, but very inconsistent. He is a very good on ball defender. Projection ? Early to middle 2nd round 2003-04 Statistics ? 10 PPG, 6.1 APG, 4.1 RPG, 2.2 SPG, .448 FG %, .722 FT %, .302 3FG % " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/chris-duhon-hd2.jpg"></a> 7. Blake Stepp ? 6?4? ? 194 pounds ? Senior ? Gonzaga ? Good size guard who can shoot it from deep. He has good range, with good mechanics. Not extremely quick, or flashy. He could be a combo guard, playing both backcourt spots. Needs to work on his defense, could be a good backup. Projection : Mid 2nd round 2003-04 Statistics ? 14.7 PPG, 6.9 APG, 4.6 RPG, 1.2 SPG, .435 FG %, .850 FT %, .381 3FG % " target="_blank">http://nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/blake-stepp-hd.jpg"></a> Others ? Tim Pickett, Lionel Chalmers, Antonio Burks
What? How can that be? Why's Jameer Nelson so low, he and Gordon are going to end up being such great PG's in the league. That's just plain stupid, if I ever had to choose to choose a PG, I'd have to pick between those 2. The guy plays big, the guy acts big, heck he is big. Livingston is a good choice too though, simply because he's a HSer, he'll still grow, so he'll probably be bigger and badder than the other PG's and have no problem scoring.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What? How can that be? Why's Jameer Nelson so low, he and Gordon are going to end up being such great PG's in the league. That's just plain stupid, if I ever had to choose to choose a PG, I'd have to pick between those 2.</div> This is a weird draft for PG's, kind of. You have Livingston, Harris and Gordon who are top 10 locks. Then you have Nelson and Telfair who will be middle of the first round. And then you have Sasha Vujanic out of Slovenia who will be at the end of the first round. But then it drops down into the 2nd round. So, there is a big stockpile of point guards in the first 15 or so picks. So, it seems like Nelson is low, when he really is not. I think Nelson will get drafted higher., but in the end, Telfair will be the better point guard. You've seen Devin Harris play? He wasn't on the national scene that Jameer was, but Devin is the better player. First, he is bigger, much bigger, and he can run the team and knock down jumpers. Have you seen Livingston, Telfair and Harris play? Telfair is a worker man. He is already a very good point guard, and will definately continue to grow as a player. Livingston is 6'7". Thats all you need. He has amazing floor vision, and is a pass first player. Alot of people love that in a PG. Plus, he is real skinny. He has tons of room to bulk up on his frame. I don't know how you can call it stupid.
Harris and Livingston are better PG's than Jameer, Livingston just has the height and has amazing court vision and is a pass first guy. I don't know if you've seen Harris, but the kid is amazing, don't doubt his skills, he's got a much more upside than Jameer, and also has the height and size advantage. Gordon is already a lock to be up their, and right now I would rank Telfair and Jameer about the same.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Magic Johnson:</div><div class="quote_post">What? How can that be? Why's Jameer Nelson so low, he and Gordon are going to end up being such great PG's in the league. That's just plain stupid, if I ever had to choose to choose a PG, I'd have to pick between those 2. The guy plays big, the guy acts big, heck he is big. Livingston is a good choice too though, simply because he's a HSer, he'll still grow, so he'll probably be bigger and badder than the other PG's and have no problem scoring.</div> Magic, that could have been the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. You're speaking out of bias, since you're a big Jameer Nelson fan (if I remember correctly... you were telling me how much you loved his play on AIM). Jameer Nelson may have been the Player of the Year last year, but that means very little. David West and Mateen Cleaves were both Players of the Year, and look how their careers are going. The thing I love about Harris is that his game is all-around. He can shoot, pass, and rebound. He's everything that you want in a Point Guard. His shooting is better than Jameer's, his ball handling is better, and his athleticism isn't even in Jameer's league. If I were to rank the point guards, I'd have Harris #1 and Vujacic around #5 or #6; that's a respectable list though, STC.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd have Harris #1 and Vujacic around #5 or #6; that's a respectable list though, STC.</div> No Vujanic, never seen him play, so I won't rank him. Harris number one is arguable man.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Wave:</div><div class="quote_post">Magic, that could have been the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. You're speaking out of bias, since you're a big Jameer Nelson fan (if I remember correctly... you were telling me how much you loved his play on AIM). Jameer Nelson may have been the Player of the Year last year, but that means very little. David West and Mateen Cleaves were both Players of the Year, and look how their careers are going. The thing I love about Harris is that his game is all-around. He can shoot, pass, and rebound. He's everything that you want in a Point Guard. His shooting is better than Jameer's, his ball handling is better, and his athleticism isn't even in Jameer's league. If I were to rank the point guards, I'd have Harris #1 and Vujacic around #5 or #6; that's a respectable list though, STC.</div> Bias? Why? It's simply just an opinion and behind most opinions is some form of truth or the other, there's always something factual it is based on. As for the Player of the Year not being a big deal. It has to be, college ball is very difficult and just as competitive though the stakes are not as high. Nelson provides excellent all around play himself and is a very true PG. He reminds me of AI in a lot of ways, in terms of his athleticism, this making him a Big little man, he plays big and he thinks big. Not only that, his vision is amazing in comparison to a lot of the others in the draft, plus he has the experience and know how some of them do not yet have, will not get or will never even have or compare to. He is awesome at running for the purpose of creating for others, that alone should be reason enough since a lot of PG's nowadays are lacking or are not too good in that aspect, Cassell is pretty slow at that sort of thing for example.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">No Vujanic, never seen him play, so I won't rank him. Harris number one is arguable man.</div> Yea Harris at one is arguable, because Ben Gordon has basically everything that Harris has and put up slightly better numbers, his handles might not be as good though, but he's got the all-round game and the atheleticism. Also Livingston, might not be a super scorer, but his passing abilities, courtvision, and his height are big bonuses
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bias? Why? It's simply just an opinion and behind most opinions is some form of truth or the other, there's always something factual it is based on. As for the Player of the Year not being a big deal. It has to be, college ball is very difficult and just as competitive though the stakes are not as high. Nelson provides excellent all around play himself and is a very true PG. He reminds me of AI in a lot of ways, in terms of his athleticism, this making him a Big little man, he plays big and he thinks big. Not only that, his vision is amazing in comparison to a lot of the others in the draft, plus he has the experience and know how some of them do not yet have, will not get or will never even have or compare to. He is awesome at running for the purpose of creating for others, that alone should be reason enough since a lot of PG's nowadays are lacking or are not too good in that aspect, Cassell is pretty slow at that sort of thing for example.</div> Who was the last great player to come out of college after 4 years? All the great players go to the pros. So the competition he was playing against, was not what it could have been. He played in a very weak conference, where no one else could even guard him. How is he a true PG? The guy puts up tons of shots. Have you even seen Harris, Telfair, or Livingston play?
Nelson!!!! Jameer Nelson and Devin Harris are the two best point guards in this draft. Livingston is a high schooler and is only getting alot of looks because of his size. Gordon is good but his shot selection is horrible for a pg. and telfair is doing so bad in his workouts some say he might not get picked til the early twenties. ill take jameer and devin over all of them becuase they are already proven and are still gonna get better.
I dont think Nelson is even a top 3 pg in this draft. I would take Devin Harris, Ben Gordon, and Shaun Livingston over him. They all look more promising. Shaun Livingston is a freak, 6'7 PG with incredible court vision. Devin Harris is supposed to be like Sam Cassell, and Ben Gordon can score at will, and is bigger (height) than Nelson.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Livingston is not the best he is like a toothpick look at his arms, Jameer Nelson is the best</div> That is why every scout in the world says Livingston is the better player.
Livingston has way more upside. He has hight, better all around player. Jameer is just a pure scorer, and is really small. He will never be a star in the league.
Teams aren't going to be picking Livingston because of how good he is right now anyway. If you wanted to compare all of them at the stage they're at right now, Gordon and Harris are better than him. But teams will be picking him because of what he could be in the future, not because of how good he is now. In the end, I think Telfair will be the best PG out of this draft.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In the end, I think Telfair will be the best PG out of this draft.</div> Ahhhh, maybe, it could happen, but I think its a long shot. Livingston seems to have the most upside, with Devin Harris right behind him. Don't get me wrong, I really like Telfair's game, I love it, but you cannot go wrong with Livingston's game. When he gets stronger, and starts knocking down the outside jumper consistently, it will be real scary. And Devin Harris has already shown he can play on a high level. Telfair will have to work extra hard because of his small size.
I think if Livingston works to his full potential he will be the best one out of them, followed by Gordon, Harris, Telfair, then Nelson.
When I see Jameer Nelson, all I can think of is Derek Fisher. I know they don't have the same style of game, but I think Nelson will end up having a career similar to Fish... Not a true PG but can still get the necessary done, and a decent scorer in the league. Their size is also very similar, both around 200LBS and around 6'1. Anyone else see the similarities, or is it just me?
I can't say I've seen Livingston play so this might be an unfair assessment, but just by the look at his dimensions (size), his HS numbers, and reading the scouting reports on him, he sounds a lot like Cedric Bozeman when he was coming out of highschool...(Bozeman has been a miserable player at UCLA)... Devin Harris has a lot of Keyon Dooling in him IMO...that's enough to scare me away.... Nelson reminds me more of a Damon Stoudamire. He's small, but he can get into the lane with the best of them. He won't be great, and will probably be a liability defensively at times because of his size, but I like his chances as a pro I've seen Sabastian Telfair in them EBC Rucker games, and in the McDonald's all-american game, and he did not impress in any of the times I watched him. I was reading an article where they were comparing him to Omar Cook....I love Cooks game, but he's had absolutely no success in the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised if Telfair does indeed follows Cooks fate. I love Chris Duhon's game. Any team would love to have that type of player on their team. He plays great defense, he's a team player, a great leader, all the intangibles. He even displayed a promising jumpshot early in his college career. I would take him in the second round in a heartbeat. I've always said that Ben Gordan will not be an effective NBA point guard. I just don't see it in him. He forces a lot of shots, and he's not a great passer. 8 out of 10 times, a combo guard fails in his attempt to become an NBA point guard...
Sorry to derail things but I was wondering if I could avail you guys of your expertise... Phoenix is picking seventh and have already auditioned Nelson. Who would be the best leader/passer between Telfair, Nelson, Gordon, and Harris? Would it be smart to trade down (get rid of Eisley's contract) and pick up Duhon? We already have 2 combo guards in Barbosa and Vujanic (an undersized 2, if he decides to come over) and need a general. Hope I'm not outta line here. I guess it is still ranking them. Who would be the best floor general (but sadly Livingston and possibly Gordon are out of our reach)?
