It's obviously not working in the ATL. Maybe it's time to rebuild and start over. Here are 3 deals that will bring some youth and hope for the Hawks future... Trade No.1(this is a trade between Atlanta & Seattle) Hawks get: Vladmimir Radmanovic Brent Barry Vitaly Potapenko Sonics get: Shareef Abdur-Rahim Travis Hansen WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE HAWKS: Radmanovic is a promising SF with a good shooting touch. He has the potential to be another Gasol or Nowitski. Brent Barry is a quality 2G who would be a great compliment to JT in the backcourt. Potapenko is a decent backup big man. WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE SONICS: A frontline of Reef and Shard would be tough to go up against. This deal could secure Seattle a playoff spot. Trade No.2(this is a 3-team trade between Atlanta, Memphis, and the LAClippers) Hawks get: Chris Wilcox Shane Battier Bo Outlaw Grizzlies get: Theo Ratliff Lee Nailon Clippers get: Troy Bell Ryan Humphrey WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE HAWKS: Wilcox is oozing with potential and has amazing athleticism. With more time and a larger role, I think he could turn into a star. Shane Battier and Bo Outlaw bring those intangibles every team likes to have. WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE GRIZZ: Ratliff would bolster the Sonics frontline. This deal would make them a real threat to make the postseason. With the Bonzi Wells deal, Battier has become expendable. WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE CLIPPERS: They have a major need in the backcourt. Bell would fill that need. He could be this team's PG of the future. Ryan Humphrey plays hard and would be a good backup for Brand. Trade No.3(this is a trade between Atlanta & San Antonio) Hawks get: Sean Marks Alex Garcia 2004 1st round pick Spurs get: Stephen Jackson WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE HAWKS: We do this to get another 1st rounder. WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE SPURS: They get Jackson back to make another run at the title. 2003/2004 HAWKS ROSTER(to finish out the season): PG-Jason Terry/Jacque Vaughn/Dan Dickau SG-Brent Barry/Dion Glover/Boris Diaw C-Nazr Mohammed/Vitaly Potapenko SF-Vladimir Radmanovic/Shane Battier/Chris Crawford PF-Chris Wilcox/Bo Outlaw IR: Henderson EXPANSION DRAFT PROTECTED LIST: 1.)Jason Terry 2.)Boris Diaw 3.)Chris Wilcox 4.)Vlad Radmanovic 5.)Nazr Mohammed 6.)Shane Battier 2004/2005 HAWKS ROSTER: PG-Jason Terry/Dan Dickau SG-Boris Diaw/Spur's Pick(Romain Sato or Ricky Paulding) C-Hawk's Pick(Emeka Okafur or Pavel Podkolzine)/Nazr Mohammed/Vitaly Potapenko SF-Vladimir Radmanovic/Shane Battier PF-Chris Wilcox/Bo Outlaw What do you guys think?
As a Sonics fan I would definately consider that deal, but I wouldn't make a decision on it until the trade deadline when it is clear how much Radmanovic has improved. On one hand, Reef would add exactly what we're lacking at the moment, a low post scorer. On the other hand, Barry is the glue of this team and Radmanovic has a lot of potential, plus Collison will be into the side next year. Definately worth serious consideration however.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pja123:</div><div class="quote_post">Hawks get: Chris Wilcox Shane Battier Bo Outlaw Grizzlies get: Theo Ratliff Lee Nailon Clippers get: Troy Bell Ryan Humphrey WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE GRIZZ: Ratliff would bolster the Sonics frontline. This deal would make them a real threat to make the postseason. With the Bonzi Wells deal, Battier has become expendable. </div> Are we talking about the Grizzlies or the Sonics? This trade is good in theory, but Battier and Bell are not as expendable as you think. Bell does more than score, rebound, and pass. What he does can not be detracted by the addition of another wing player. Battier will be getting just as many minutes as he did before because Bonzi Wells will play Shooting Guard rather than Small Forward. Bell on the other hand will probably remain a Grizzly to give the team a backup point guard in the event of an injury to Watson or Williams or perhaps for when Earl Watson leaves via Free Agency or trade. He?s just a rookie and he has a lot of potential. Although I hate to see his potential rot away on the bench, I feel confident that he will get some serious minutes either later on this season or the next. Although the ?Ratliff and Nailon for Humphrey, Bell, Outlaw, and Battier? swap may be an equal trade talent-wise, it is a very lopsided trade as far as significance goes. While Ratliff may be a great player, adding him to the Grizzlies wouldn?t get the team very far. The Grizzlies are a bit crowded in the post, and adding another player would only back things up even more. As it is right now, Jake Tsakalidas starts while Stromile Swift and Lorenzen Wright battle for scrap minutes. I can only imagine what it would be like if Ratliff was added to that mess. The main things the Grizzlies would lose through this trade are quickness. As it stands, Bo Outlaw is the backup Power Forward for the Grizzlies rather than Lorenzen Wright. The reason why Outlaw plays over Wright is because of his quickness. He can move up and down the court with ease and get back in transition on fast-breaks. Although Ratliff is a better defensive player than Outlaw, the Grizzlies? main defensive option, Shane Battier, is also included in this trade. This trade actually hurts the Grizzlies on defense more than it helps them. Right now the stalwart defense of Battier and Outlaw will more than suffice. Jerry West has a great team on his hands and if I were him I would not pull the trigger on any deal that is less than perfect for the Grizzlies.
Personally, I think Reef is more valuable to the Hawks than JT. I would consider packaging Mohammed and Henderson and sending them to Memphis for Battier and Outlaw. Memphis gets: Nazr Mohammed Alan Henderson Atlanta gets: Bo Outlaw Shane Battier Then I'd send JT and Dion Glover to the Clips for Quentin Richardson, Keyon Dooling and Chris Wilcox. Clippers get: Jason Terry Dion Glover Hawks get: Quentin Richardson Chris Wilcox Keyon Dooling Then I'd send off Dooling and Dickau with Lee Nailon to Minnesota for Troy Hudson and Ervin Johnson. T'wolves get: Keyon Dooling Dan Dickau Lee Nailon Hawks get: Troy Hudson Ervin Johnson And finally, I'd trade Stephen Jackson, Chris Crawford and a second round pick to New York for Othella Harrington, Keith Van Horn and Howard Eisley. Knicks get: Stephen Jackson Chris Crawford 2nd round pick Hawks get: Othella Harrington Keith Van Horn Howard Eisley Then your end of season lineup would be pg- Troy Hudson/Howard Eisley/Jacque Vaughn sg- Quentin Richardson/Boris Diaw sf- Keith Van Horn/Shane Battier pf- Shareef Abdur Rahim/Bo Outlaw/Chris Wilcox c- Theo Ratliffe/Ervin Johnson Not a bad team, in my opinion.
Does anybody hold any truth to the rumors of JT going to the Knicks? And didn't we just go through this in the off season? Personally, I think that if he was going to leave Atlanta, he would have done it then.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azr&b:</div><div class="quote_post">Does anybody hold any truth to the rumors of JT going to the Knicks? And didn't we just go through this in the off season? Personally, I think that if he was going to leave Atlanta, he would have done it then.</div> He did sign an offer sheet from Utah that the Hawks matched. Catch up buddy
Man, you guys seem to think the Clippers will take everybody's garbage! I don't want Troy Bell and Ryan Humphrey for Chris Wilcox! Nor would I want to trade Richardson, Dooling AND Wilcox for Terry and Glover!!! How does that possibly work out for the Clippers? Wilcox is going to be a strong NBA player, he's shown great promise this year. Ryan Humphrey? Troy Bell? Bell is an undersized shooting guard playing the point and Humphrey is no better than Bo Outlaw right now. Terry seems determined to jack up as many bad shots as he possibly can, and Glover is the only one who would actually be of any help. NO THANKS, I'll pass on the table scraps.
That's pretty harsh. But the truth is that Wilcox doesn't fit in that well with the Clipp's future considering they just signed Brand to the max at the 4 spot, Wilcox' position. As for Q, I wouldn't want to part with him either, but understanding the business, I would make the trade, because: 1) Q is in the last year of a contract, and I(Donald Sterling) wouldn't want to have to match another offer sheet that would be more than what I'd be willing to pay him 2) The Clippers need a point guard(Jaric and Dooling won't do if they're serious bout the playoffs), especially one that scores, and Terry can provide that 3) Obviously they'd need a shooting guard, and they'd be getting it in Glover - the combined productivity of Glover and Terry more than make up for Richardson and Dooling. Wilcox is the icing on the deal, and LA can always demand a draft pick or something
I understand that Wilcox will be tough to hold on to, but Richardson can be re-signed at year's end. Sorry if that sounded too harsh, but to me Richardson and Wilcox are a much better combo than Terry and Glover. Terry just is not a point guard! He does not like to pass the ball, and he's uncomfortable with the positition. If the Clippers move Wilcox or Richardson, they'd better at least get a guard the calibur of an Eric Snow or Jason Williams (Memphis). They need a true floor leader rather than someone like Terry who will just look to get his shots. A great deal would be for someone like Bobby Jackson of the Kings, I would trade Wilcox and dooling for him.....I'm still not buying that Terry/Glover deal from the Clipps perspective - they don't need any more lottery picks either. If they move either one of those guys, they MUST get a solid PG in return. JT is not that.
Not harsh to me, just a harsh assessment of the players as scraps. But I get where you're coming from. Terry has proven in the past that he can deal with it when he's lower in the pecking order, which he will be in LA. Last year in Atlanta he did a credible job with Reef and Big Dogg, although he didn't have too many results to show for it. With a low post presence in Brand, and a quick slasher in Maggette, Terry won't have that hard a time running the offense. And the Clips have shown that they're more effective with a scoring point guard, which JT is. As for Wilcox, yeah I'd hate to lose him, but I'd rather lose him with compensation than without it. And even if Sterling can match offers of money, he won't be able to match offers of playing time that other teams will be able to make. Richardson doesn't provide so much that they'd take a serious hit going to a Terry/Glover backcourt. They'd lose some rebounding, but Glover is also a slightly better defender than Richardson, something the Clips haven't had much of against opposing swingmen. The move would also create more shots for Maggette and Brand, and would balance the scoring more across the five positions than before. Instead of having three main scorers and two no-men, you'll have two main scorers and three decent scorers on the floor. If I were the Clippers, I'd make the move, depending on what came back for Wilcox. ATL has some young players who could concievably be thrown in, such as Boris Diaw. And Atlanta probably wouldn't mind having a legit 2nd option after Reef instead of someone who looks to shoot as much as he does to pass, which JT has to do in the Hawks' system. He won't have to do it in the Clips' set.
You have some valid points, I just don't like JT as a point guard. I never have. I would rather have less of a scoring threat and a better playmaker. But, as you noted, Wilcox will be deserving of a starting spot next season. If he has his heart set on that, he'll have to be moved. I wouldn't mind taking Boris Diaw in a deal with Atlanta, I think he's a future all-star. But, not at the expense of losing Q. Don't forget: Kaman though young,is also an competent offensive threat, Jaric can score too. I don't think they need to make a move to trade either Richardson or Wilcox yet. If Richardson makes it clear that he will not resign, that's a different story. JT would fit better in Utah, where he initially wanted to be. Stevenson is not going to be a consistent scoring threat, and Terry would get more consistent looks playing in that offense. I don't think he's a bad player, I just don't like him for the Clippers. On the other hand, Glover and Diaw for Wilcox I would strongly consider.
You're absolutely right about JT in Utah. However, I think they're gonna go with Arroyo until Lopez matures, and focus on building around Stevenson, Kirilenko, and whatever pieces they can add away from the point position. I agree about Kaman, but I don't think Jaric is a consistent enough scoring threat. He just plays in spurts it seems, when some nights he's on and others, he's just not. JT gets it done with scoring sometime and assists other times. If Jaric was more consistent with either points or assists I'd like him more. I admit that JT can be erratic in terms of being a traditional playmaker, but he's still far better than what the Clips have right now. If they can get a real point in the future, then they won't need JT. But until they get that point, this trade could help them immensely with hunting for a playoff spot. A lineup of Terry, Glover, Maggette, Brand and Kaman will be tough to deal with. And if Wilcox stays, they could really make some noise in the first round.
Yes, that would be a decent lineup. I like Terry's scoring ability and Glover's versatility. I'm just looking at it from a long-suffering Clipper fan POV. They never seem to have the pieces in place long enough to find out if they work together. Personally, I would give this group the rest of the season to see how they mesh. If Jaric continues to play as inconsistently as he has early on and if the perimeter defense does not improve somewhat, I will probably be more receptive of the proposed deal. For now though, I would just like to see what happens for the remainder of the season. For once, there's actually a little bit of security in knowing that Brand and Maggette are both locked up and not going anywhere. Even at the expense of missing the playoffs this season, I would rather wait til' the end of the year and re-evaluate at that point. If indeed JT does go to Utah, I envision him playing the two-guard position - He and Arroyo in the same backcourt. That way Carlos can be the playmaker and Terry can play off of him. Somewhat like the situation that Chicago has right now. Crawford is not a traditional point, but when playing with Hinrich he seems to thrive. Terry can give the Jazz a consistent perimeter threat and help open things up for Andrei on the inside. I would move Stevenson for another center/pf if I was the Jazz. Borchardt may be out again for the remainder of the season, and Collins is not yet a consistent enough backup to Ostertag.
True about Collins and the Jazz lineup. But when Clark gets back, look for him to eat into some of Greg's minutes. He can't bang like O-tag, but he can spell him on defense and may be better offensively. You're right that JT and Arroyo could thrive, but now that Stevenson is finally perking up I doubt the Jazz will mess with him too much. Of course, him coming off the bench wouldn't have to drastically reduce his minutes since he's already splitting them with Bell, so that could still work. Yes, the setup in LA could work given some time, so I'm not advocating a rush into this deal. But with Q open in the summer, Sterling and Baylor have to be thinking about that. If Q gets it into his mind that he could be a better player without having to play third fiddle to Corey and Elton, then there could be trouble, and the Clips could be left without a 2, which would be the worst case scenario.
Very true, hopefully he will make his intentions known before the trade deadline. I would hate to see him go, but if he must, I would rather get something in return. I totally forgot about Keon Clark, I'm still baffled at how he ended up in Utah. Rony Seikaly even refused to play there! JT, Stevenson and Bell would be a nice combo for the Jazz. Stevenson may be the future in Utah, but adding Terry could vastly improve their chances short term. Expanding that deal to include Shareef might also be a possibility. Stevenson, Harping and or Pavlovic/Lopez would help Atlanta in their rebuilding process. Harpring : from GTech could start along with Stevenson/Lopez. Pavlovic was the number 19 pick in last year's draft and seems to have some real upside. Would you do that deal if you were the Hawks?
Basically the JT and Reef for Stevenson, Harpring and either Pavlovic or Lopez? If I were the Jazz, definitely. If I were the Hawks, I'd push for a little more. I'd choose Pavlovic over Lopez, and groom Diaw as my point. Pavlovic does have a lot of upside, and has played well when he gets real minutes. But I'd also ask for Keon Clark to be thrown in, since I'd be loosing a starting-caliber pf and not getting anything to stop the gap unless I play Harpring there. Which could work. Even if I had to throw Glover into the deal to get Clark, I think I would. That would leave me with a lineup of Diaw, Stephen Jackson, Harpring, Clark and Ratliff, with Stevenson and Pavlovic coming off the bench. Since Jackson's contract is short, as is Clark's, I could then try to package them to get a real pf after the season. And I'd have the cap room from the Terrell Brandon trade to sign a high caliber player. If I threw in Glover, I'd expect either two 2nd rounders or a 1st round pick as well, the latter preferable. With that lineup I wouldn't make the playoffs, and I'd have a pretty clean slate to add the 1st rounder and my own lottery pick to.
That sounds good on both sides, with a bit of tinkering such as adding Clark and Glover/DP's I think it sounds like a fairly realistic proposal. It makes sense for Atlanta, considering that the team is not going to win anytime soon, it would also make Utah a strong contender once again in the west. Let's forward this to the Utah and Atlanta front offices for their perusal. :thumbsup:
