It seems like it has become an annual ritual. Every year, around draft time, Sam Smith writes a column that lists his possible trade scenarios. Inevitably, at least one of them involves the Warriors. For years, he was transfixed with trading for Dunleavy. This year, he's shifted his focus to Pietrus and Murphy: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2. Mickael Pietrus, Warriors: He is an under-used defensive talent who can be that big shooting guard. Golden State is in luxury-tax trouble and probably can't afford to extend Pietrus. How about Pietrus and Troy Murphy, a power forward who can step outside and make a shot, for both No. 1 picks and a reserve like Michael Sweetney or Duhon? That should still give the Bulls enough money left to add one big man through free agency.</div> link So, how 'bout it? The trade is possible because Chicago should be well under the salary cap this summer and are capable of taking on Murphy's salary, even though he still has his BYC tag on, and therefore able to take back more salary than they give up. <u>Pros</u> 1. Salary cap relief, both in not having to take on Pietrus' bump in salary if he were to be resigned, and dropping Murph's salary. The Warriors are going to have to worry about resigning Biedrins next offseason, and Diogu and Ellis the season after that. Sure these are a long time off, but Murphy's present contract would still be on the books (at 8.9 mil next off season and 9.7 mil the season after that), so they have to be taken into account. 2. Opportunity to reshape their roster. It's the #2 and #16 pick to go along with their own #9 pick. The Warriors could grab either Lamarcus Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick and could replace Pietrus with either the #9 or #16 pick and get a euro player to stash oversees for a couple of years with the remaining pick. Ronnie Brewer, Rodney Carney, and Shannon Brown (who has apparently been rocketing up the draft boards lately) could all replace Pietrus as an athlete who is also a lock down defender (well, maybe not so much a defender with Carney). Or they could package the #9 and #16 to try and move up to get Rudy Gay. <u>Cons</u> 1. They get even younger and less experienced. The Warriors are already trying to develop Biedrins, Taft, Diogu, and Ellis. Dunleavy is also trying to rebound after a horrible year. By trading Murphy and drafting two or three young guys who will need their own time to develop, the Warriors can just about kiss any chance of going to the playoffs next year goodbye. Plus they'd have Sweetney, who has a similar game to Diogu, wanting his own playing time. 2. This is a weak draft. Really weak. Weak as the 2000 draft weak. To add to that, the #2 pick has traditionally not lived up to expectations (Marvin Williams, Okafur, Milicic, Jay Williams, and Tyson Chandler) and no #16 pick has made an impact in the last five years (Joey Graham, Kirk Snyder, Troy Bell, Jiri Welsh, and Kirk Haston). So while having a high first round pick and a mid round pick in addition to the #9 sounds like a great deal, the Warriors would be giving up their third most productive player and a much better shot at the playoffs in the short term to build a better future. Unless the Warriors do some serious wheeling and dealing, I don't like this trade. I'd like it more if the Warriors could get the Knick's pick next year instead of the #2 pick this year. Even if it's in the #6-#8 range, it will probably be a better player than the #2 pick this year. Next year's draft is supposed to be one of the best drafts in recent years.
Well...this is a pretty juicy offer. At #1 I can't see Tor not taking Aldridge as they need a C. We need a legit SF..take Morrison and hope he's the relentless scorer I saw. #9,Sheldon Williams or O' Bryant. With Murphy gone Sheldon is a graet addition,but he might go earlier. #16 is in the zone where I'd really try to trade down. Most of the guys listing at 16 are no better than guys ranked 5-10 slots lower. I''d like to convert it into a late 20's pick and a high #2,plus eject Fish....or even Foyle.
i really doubt we get that good of a deal. Even if we added in the Philly 07 we still look good. The deal on this draft is there are a lot of "speculation" picks,guys touted as top 15 who you would not bet your paycheck on. Gay,Carney,Rondo,O'Bryant,Splitter,Bargnani,Armstrong...half these may never get 10 a game,may be years away from starting. meanwhile there are a half dozen real nifty sleepers in rd 2 and a few more in late rd 1...the guys who don't fit the "prototype" but are smart,skilled,get it done. Several of those will emerge as better pros than a few of the lotto pick guys.
No way would Chicago give us both of their picks. It'd be extremely difficult just to get the 2nd pick from them let alone both of their picks. I wouldn't mind trading Murphy and Pietrus for Deng and the 16 pick. That way we dump alot of salary, get a new SF who is alot smarter and more effiecient than Pietrus and more productive at scoring and rebounding than Dunleavy too. Dunleavy can then be more productive playing either the 3 or 4 off the bench giving us playmaking, defense, or scoring off the bench. Monta can take Pietrus's backup SG minutes while Ike shares minutes at the 4 with Dun, Zarko, and maybe some Taft. We get two picks in the draft, with the 9 we can get O'Bryant, Shelden Williams, or whoever slips to us and with 16 we can get Shawne Williams, Ronnie Brewer, Maurice Ager, Hilton Armstrong or Jordan Farmar. Or we can trade both and get up to a top 6 pick to take Roy, Gay, Morrison, Thomas or Bargnani. Nocioni has already surpassed Deng as a starter so the Bulls have 2 good SFs but Deng can be moved more easily since he hasn't turned out quite as well as Nocioni. The Bulls most likely still get Aldridge so they start Murphy at PF and Chandler at C for a year and in the future they have Aldridge at C and Murphy at PF spreading the floor for him. Pietrus can play the 2 or 3 and fits with the Bulls because he can play defense and he'll be given a specific role and he'l know exactly what hes supposed to do. Our new lineup would be: Baron/Fisher/Bynum J-Rich/Monta Deng/Dunleavy Ike/Dunleavy/Zarko/Taft Foyle/Biedrins/Taft And add the 9 and 16 pick. Maybe Murphy and Pietrus seems like alot for Deng/16 pick but its worth it since we get a true SF who will play smart and we dump alot of salary. Pietrus's role will be filled better by Monta and Fisher at the 2, who were doing alot better than he was last season, and Dun or Deng at the 3 off the bench.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post"> Dunleavy is also trying to rebound after a horrible year. </div> I didn't know you had it in you j/k I'm all for any trade -- any trade -- that moves either Foyle, Fisher, or Murphy, simply because we have, IMO, young players at each of those positions who will be better than these guys. Ellis<Fisher Biedrins<Foyle Ike<Murphy I'd like to get good value for them, obviously. Murphy is a potential chip, as is Pietrus. Now if there were only a way to saddle Foyle or Fisher with these two chips, then I'd be in heaven. Fisher Pietrus for Deng Piatkowski Pargo
a suggestion that works financially murph, fisher and pietrus to utah for boozer and kris humphries humphries is a tough player with game... and a healthy boozer... i know we would be going duke crazy.... and then draft reddick .... and then mike k will coach us.... actually i liked my other duke deal getting grant hill's expiring contract
That would be great if we tank ourselves into a deep draft next season. Knowing the Warriors they then proceed to repeat the bad luck we had in the year we missed out on Patrick Ewing. It's all because them lottery ping pong balls and the basketball gods royally screwed us. I wish they would make the order of the draft based on the direct season results like they do in NFL rather than amount of ping pong balls based on season results. But then it would be less fun because we don't get to see the other team getting screwed over like Portland. Trading Pietrus and Murphy wouldn't be a problem for me considering the major issue of re-signing our future guys which we'll need much, much more. This is also because Fish/Foyle/Dunleavy's value isn't high enough for them to be moved as easily as Murphy/Pietrus. I like Pietrus' first step off the drive (when he drunks or drains a clutch three I love the guy, but absolutely loathe his decision making with/without the ball. He could end up being like Derek Anderson, not necessarily a long term kind of guy, but a nice individual player that is hard to stop on-the-move when healthy). He could also be a Ricky Davis type of guy, but I don't think Pietrus is quite the student of the game that Davis is. High-risk players are exciting, but can be irritating like Fisher. Trading Murphy is no problem for me. Despite his improvements over the years, we ain't going anywhere with him or Foyle. His ceiling at starting power forward is too low IMO and we'd have to introduce an all-star type of center to bring to the table what he lacks (inside game, plus defense). Murphy is basically a role player that has good stats on a bad team that settles for outside shots, can't create, and doesn't play very good individual D. That's why we got Foyle as Mullin's first FA signing of his GM career, but Foyle's not really that great of a defensive guy, especially when our perimeter guys are so slow they go zone defense a lot to contain ballhandlers. This puts people out of position for rebounds and gets certain guys stuck in "no man's land" on D, which causes open shots or guys to drive all the way to the bucket since there's no real shot blockers near the hoop except for Foyle. It's not that hard to run a play to get Foyle to come out and contest a shot, then make the extra pass going unchallenged to the rim (unless Dun, Jrich or point guard takes the foul). I've seen Murphy take way less intentional fouls than the other guys. At least do the Dunleavy or DFish "drawing a charge" tactic. Plus, I don't like the idea that our players get into so much more foul trouble and give up layups because Murphy sux at help/weakside/transition D. Besides rebounding, which our team sucks at anyway, Ike already does the 20 foot jumpers, the ballhandling, earns us extra posessions, scores on putbacks, shoots nice free throw % that Murphy does, Ike does so much more. Ike also scores inside against tough defensive players much bigger than him, he will probably draw a lot more fouls because he looks for contact, blocks more shots, has better floor awareness, can score with either hand, and probably has better leadership qualities (which we need). We'll see if Ike's qualities are put to the test in an 82 game season with dramatically increased minutes... I think his traits will give us things we've missed in a big man for over a decade. And the guy fell in the draft all because he's an inch or two short from being ideal or maybe a step or two slow from being a phenomenal athlete. The guy was as good as drafting Andrew Bogut IMO. Some rare big men with high basketball I.Q., that are ambidextrious, fierce in the paint through double/triple teams, and were their team's only stars. So I guess, besides the higher draft standings where we can pick Center or Small forward, I'm just glad we subtract some guys I think are part of the problem at starter or future starter. With the way Jrich has been playing without Baron Davis, it's unthinkable to imagine Pietrus trying to fill in if Jrich got traded. Pietrus' defense has also slipped and it's one of the reasons why I liked him in the first place. The guy used to guard point guards.
Anything on the Magic interest you for Pietrus?(other than Dwight/Jameer) I think he would be a very nice player for us, we need a big guard that is a good defender and can create shots for others with their slashing ability.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Anything on the Magic interest you for Pietrus?(other than Dwight/Jameer) I think he would be a very nice player for us, we need a big guard that is a good defender and can create shots for others with their slashing ability.</div> Well we need a center or a small forward with some upside and isn't super raw. What about Darko? If he can create his own shot, block shots, move well laterally, good enough for now. I just hope he doesn't break his hand on the rim after trying to dunk like he did a while back. Hopefully age has made his all around game and attitude better because he's really proved nothing. But I like the upside, athleticism, size, and smarts. If we get another center prospect squared away we could make a run at any of these guys in the draft. Brandon Roy, Ronnie Brewer (I think it could work as long as ppl don't mind his awkward shooting), Rodney Carney, or whoever falls in the top 8. Interesting lineup here: C: Darko (not sure if he's even good to take somebody's starting position but you never know with big dudes, especially the fact this guy should have never joined the nba that early like he did) PF: Ike Diogu SF: Draft guy (not sure anybody in this draft is capable of starting right away, I'd take Rudy Gay or Ronnie Brewer or Roy or Carney, whoever can play a really good swing type of guy. If Adam Morrison drops at #9 because of his slowness or diabetes, hell yeah I'd take him. Some of that hype has to be real if he's the team's only star player and they went as far as they did) SG: Jason Richardson PG: Baron Davis At least with Darko, Diogu, Baron on the squad, we can't complain that nobody can create their own shots or not pass the ball, or lacks athleticism. I wouldn't consider Diogu unathletic BTW because he can at least leap and run the floor and he's both strong/quick in the post due to excellent footwork and broad shoulders. There's a lot worse out there. Baron, Ike + Morrison + Jrich would be one very passionate team. Ike n' Baron is certainly better leadership than we've had in most roster lineups.
Man, I'm bummed about Pietrus. I think he's got all the tools to be an all-star. His potential on defense and offense is pretty tremendous. More so than Jrich, I believe, but Pietrus does not have the brains or the fundamentals to put things together. He's just not a smooth or quick thinking player. But he's pretty darn exciting when used on the right guard matchups like Kobe, Michael Redd, Gilbert Arenas or one of them big point guards like Steve Francis or Stephon Marbury. He annoys the hell out of people like another rookie we got (Monta Ellis). But zone pretty much screws up his ability to guard the other team's best ballhandler and scorer. Also, his ability to hit the buzzer beating three and drive down the lane for a long jump, left or right handed dunk is something to like. Very exciting in the up-tempo game, but don't expect the guy to remember plays or remember the foul situation. He's definitely a team player though and he's shows a lot of team pride which is nice to see. He also doesn't have much of a midrange or layup type of game and he's horrible foul shooter. His crossover is nice, but decision making screws up everything he tries to do with the ball. If he gets smart, creating a shot will be easier for him. In an unorganized, uptempo offense with him as the sole scoring option, he scores like a point per minute when he's hot. We're talking threes from the baseline or and1 dunks. Very active and energetic when he gets up. Similar to Ricky Davis.
Yeah, Pietrus has all the athleticism, energy, and intangibles to be an elite star. But his time has expired. He should have put it together by now. I'm not giving up on him, but he should have been living up to his potential by now. IMO it's a reflection of his inablitiy to do what JRich has done -- learn how to get better and improve your game during the off-season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Well we need a center or a small forward with some upside and isn't super raw. What about Darko? If he can create his own shot, block shots, move well laterally, good enough for now. I just hope he doesn't break his hand on the rim after trying to dunk like he did a while back. Hopefully age has made his all around game and attitude better because he's really proved nothing. But I like the upside, athleticism, size, and smarts. If we get another center prospect squared away we could make a run at any of these guys in the draft. Brandon Roy, Ronnie Brewer (I think it could work as long as ppl don't mind his awkward shooting), Rodney Carney, or whoever falls in the top 8. Interesting lineup here: C: Darko (not sure if he's even good to take somebody's starting position but you never know with big dudes, especially the fact this guy should have never joined the nba that early like he did) PF: Ike Diogu SF: Draft guy (not sure anybody in this draft is capable of starting right away, I'd take Rudy Gay or Ronnie Brewer or Roy or Carney, whoever can play a really good swing type of guy. If Adam Morrison drops at #9 because of his slowness or diabetes, hell yeah I'd take him. Some of that hype has to be real if he's the team's only star player and they went as far as they did) SG: Jason Richardson PG: Baron Davis At least with Darko, Diogu, Baron on the squad, we can't complain that nobody can create their own shots or not pass the ball, or lacks athleticism. I wouldn't consider Diogu unathletic BTW because he can at least leap and run the floor and he's both strong/quick in the post due to excellent footwork and broad shoulders. There's a lot worse out there. Baron, Ike + Morrison + Jrich would be one very passionate team. Ike n' Baron is certainly better leadership than we've had in most roster lineups.</div> Well I don't think I would trade Darko. Darko looked pretty good once he came to Orlando. Well good considering he was playing with all new people-trying to gain chemistry, he was out of shape(since he sat the bench the entire time in Detroit), and adjusting to the NBA game. I believe him and Dwight are pretty good friends, I remember reading that Dwight is going to take him under his wing(which is odd considering he's a year younger than Darko and both are 20 right now) and they will work hard during the offseason together. The whole Darko and Orlando is an extremely interesting situation. Darko's contract expires after next year and as a Magic fan I want to lock him up now, because he's shown good ability and potential. Also if we sign him now, we could probably get him cheaper, since he hasn't proven anything yet. You all know how bigs get overpaid(Foyle), since it's so hard to find a quality center. To be honest with you, I would say Darko is probably an untouchable for the Magic(maybe even more so than Jameer). He's shown a knack for defense and he has a nice outside shot, he just hasn't gotten comfortable using it consistently during games. With Dwight working downlow, it would be nice to kick it out to Darko who can hit a Horace Grant type shot when the double team comes. He has also proven to be a pretty good passer. I honestly think Dwight and Darko compliment themselves very well. I know I'm praising Darko a lot, probably to the point where I think he'll be a superstar. I don't think he will be a superstar, but I think he could be a valuable role player for us. With a full offseason of working out and getting into shape and gaining chemistry with the team and confidence in the world championships, I could see him developing pretty nice. Next year I could honestly see him getting close to 12 ppg 6 rpg and 2 bpg in basically his "rookie year". I really would like Pietrus though, but I don't think I would trade a big with the potential as Darko.
Thx for the post. Hmm... outside of Darko + the other two, the Magic have nothing that's worth Pietrus IMO. I guess two rebuilding teams can't really make trades unless its to get rid of/acquire a superstar or something.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">It seems like it has become an annual ritual. Every year, around draft time, Sam Smith writes a column that lists his possible trade scenarios. Inevitably, at least one of them involves the Warriors. For years, he was transfixed with trading for Dunleavy. This year, he's shifted his focus to Pietrus and Murphy: link So, how 'bout it? The trade is possible because Chicago should be well under the salary cap this summer and are capable of taking on Murphy's salary, even though he still has his BYC tag on, and therefore able to take back more salary than they give up. <u>Pros</u> 1. Salary cap relief, both in not having to take on Pietrus' bump in salary if he were to be resigned, and dropping Murph's salary. The Warriors are going to have to worry about resigning Biedrins next offseason, and Diogu and Ellis the season after that. Sure these are a long time off, but Murphy's present contract would still be on the books (at 8.9 mil next off season and 9.7 mil the season after that), so they have to be taken into account. 2. Opportunity to reshape their roster. It's the #2 and #16 pick to go along with their own #9 pick. The Warriors could grab either Lamarcus Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick and could replace Pietrus with either the #9 or #16 pick and get a euro player to stash oversees for a couple of years with the remaining pick. Ronnie Brewer, Rodney Carney, and Shannon Brown (who has apparently been rocketing up the draft boards lately) could all replace Pietrus as an athlete who is also a lock down defender (well, maybe not so much a defender with Carney). Or they could package the #9 and #16 to try and move up to get Rudy Gay. <u>Cons</u> 1. They get even younger and less experienced. The Warriors are already trying to develop Biedrins, Taft, Diogu, and Ellis. Dunleavy is also trying to rebound after a horrible year. By trading Murphy and drafting two or three young guys who will need their own time to develop, the Warriors can just about kiss any chance of going to the playoffs next year goodbye. Plus they'd have Sweetney, who has a similar game to Diogu, wanting his own playing time. 2. This is a weak draft. Really weak. Weak as the 2000 draft weak. To add to that, the #2 pick has traditionally not lived up to expectations (Marvin Williams, Okafur, Milicic, Jay Williams, and Tyson Chandler) and no #16 pick has made an impact in the last five years (Joey Graham, Kirk Snyder, Troy Bell, Jiri Welsh, and Kirk Haston). So while having a high first round pick and a mid round pick in addition to the #9 sounds like a great deal, the Warriors would be giving up their third most productive player and a much better shot at the playoffs in the short term to build a better future. Unless the Warriors do some serious wheeling and dealing, I don't like this trade. I'd like it more if the Warriors could get the Knick's pick next year instead of the #2 pick this year. Even if it's in the #6-#8 range, it will probably be a better player than the #2 pick this year. Next year's draft is supposed to be one of the best drafts in recent years.</div> Agreed. I like the salary cap relief, but not too crazy about getting three draft picks in return unless there is a trade lined up for two of them. With the #2 pick, I like Aldridge or Rudy Gay. It may be a skosh high for Gay, but he'll be an athletic and electrifying scorer for the front court. Another scenario: If Aldridge is gone, then one can take Bargnani and Toronto may give up Charlie V for him if Bryan Colangelo really likes him that much. Or trade down with Portland and get Jarrett Jack and the #4 (Gay, Brandon Roy, Thomas or Morrison). If Chicago is willing to give up Deng, then he'd be somebody who is a great fit and move Dunleavy to play some PF and come off the bench. With the #9 pick, we can take POB, Rondo or Cedric Simmons depending who's there. If Thomas drops (doubtful), he'd be worth a shot.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Thx for the post. Hmm... outside of Darko + the other two, the Magic have nothing that's worth Pietrus IMO. I guess two rebuilding teams can't really make trades unless its to get rid of/acquire a superstar or something.</div> I'd gladly trade Pietrus for Battie. Battie isn't a great center but hes an upgrade over Foyle and when Biedrins is ready he'd be a fine backup. I like Ariza too but it seems like he isn't worth very much these days I would do something like Foyle/Pietrus/9 pick for Battie/Ariza/11 pick.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, Pietrus has all the athleticism, energy, and intangibles to be an elite star. But his time has expired. He should have put it together by now. I'm not giving up on him, but he should have been living up to his potential by now. IMO it's a reflection of his inablitiy to do what JRich has done -- learn how to get better and improve your game during the off-season.</div> Pietrus has had three seasons so far. He's still 24 years old. As a starter last season he put up matching numbers to the starting and higher paid SF on the team. Not only does Pietrus have the intangibles to be a star, but he has had the games as well where he has been the star. Last season was a mess and several players played below the expectations and their potential. The two seasons before, Pietrus showed his great potential and lived up to it for stretches of the season. I am willing to give Pietrus at least until next season's all-star break to show what he's all about. That is unless there is some wonderful deal that pops up between now and then. I am not for trading Pietrus for draft picks, unless possibly if it could land Rudy Gay, since he is a SF and would fit better on this team because of it. Deng for Pietrus would be fine with me as well.
Anyone think Atlanta would want Pietrus? Maybe we can swap picks and move up by trading Pietrus and get another Atlanta player in return. I don't know who is on the down and out, but too bad we couldn't have gotten Diaw for him.
Pietrus is an asset to this team simply because he'll be a sign-and-trade chip. I honestly don't think we'll be able to re-sign Pietrus (he'll want at least the king's ransom of $50+ mil. that Dunleavy got) so we shouldn't be involved in a discussion of "keeping" Pietrus. Unless we make room for him, he'll be gone one way or the other. IMO, Pietrus should be used as an enticing sweetener in a pot that moves either Foyle or Fisher. If we somehow found a way to move MDJ or Foyle or Fisher, I'd love to re-sign Pietrus at the SF position. But not for 5 years 50 million. He hasn't come close to earning a big payday. He's been way too inconsistent. The way I see it, no one wants Dun, so we're saddled to him, for better or for worse. Give up Pietrus and the draft pick in a "sacrifical move" that allows us to cut Foyle or Fisher. Take back anything reasonable that either expires soon or can play.
