Seattle @ Sacramento: Official Game Thread

Details:

When: Tuesday, February 1st
Where: Arco Arena, Sacramento
Time (Seattle): 7:00
TV: Fox Sports, League Pass

Projected Starters:

<font color="green">Seattle (30-13)</font>

Luke Ridnour
Ray Allen*
Rashard Lewis
Reggie Evans
Jerome James

<font color="indigo">Sacramento (30-13)</font>

Mike Bibby
Cuttino Mobley
Peja Stojakovic*
Chris Webber*
Brad Miller

Injury Troubles:

<font color="green">Seattle</font>

Casanova Swift: Strained hip, ruled out.
Damien Wilkins: Knee tendinitis, ruled out.
*Ray Allen: Flu, probable.

<font color="blue">
</font><font color="indigo">Sacramento</font>

Maurice Evans: Strained groin, ruled out.
Bobby Jackson: Wrist surgery, ruled out.
*Peja Stojakovic: Back spasms, probable.
*Chris Webber: Sore knee, probable.

Brief Notes:
<ul>
[*]Dwayne Casey stays at the helm, but Ray Allen may be back, as the Sonics travel to California and try to wash the bitter taste of a thrashing by San Antonio from their mouths. Currently tied with Seattle for the third best record in the West, the Kings come in off the back of a win over Minnesota (which helps the Sonics) with stars Chris Webber and Peja Stojakovic, both of whom should be back. They did this on the back of two-time All-Star Brad Miller, who took out the West player of the week award, and helped my fantasy team considerably.
[/list]
<ul>
[*]The Supes were hopelessly outplayed against San Antonio, widely considered the league's best team. In Ray's absence, Rashard Lewis wasn't able to escape the attentions of Bruce Bowen, taking only nine shots for his nine points, and he will have to bounce back against the Kings. Ronald Murray got his first statr of the season but shot poorly and turned the ball over too frequently, and will be hoping to make amends if Allen does miss out again. Seattle beat Sacramento by 30 points last time they met, but you can rest assured it won't be anything near as easy as that this time around, in front of the usually racous Arco Arena crowd.
[/list]
<ul>
[*]Brad Miller Is A Bitch Watch: An interesting subplot to this one will be Brad Miller against Danny Fortson and Reggie Evans. Both sets of fans will remember Miller's attack on the Sonic duos roughhouse tactics earlier in the season, and Miller can expect a similar style of physical ball this time around.
[/list]
<ul>
[*]Word of the day: Decrescendo; adv. Gradually reducing force or noise.
[/list]<div align="center">"Hopefully the Sonics style of basketball will reduce the Sacramento crowd to a decrescendo."</div>




<div align="center">Random Family Guy Quote </div>



Chris: Dad, what would you say if I told I didn't want to be in the Scouts?
Peter: I'd say, 'Come again?' and I'd laugh as I said, 'Come.'

All predictions, analysis and discussion relating directly to the game, both before, during and after, to be posted in this thread.

 

Nice to see our young star rebound after a big game.

Yep, Luke was clutch tonight.

 

My team just won a huge game and I come back to see the Philly native drop 23 points in a win at Sacramento.

Duane Casey is turning into my favorite coach in the league. If you read his quotes from last nights game he made sure to let everyone know that he was confident in Flip and that he was going to continue give him an opportunity. Flip took full advantage of that opportunity tonight and despite the fact that he was on the sideline during crunch time there is no denying that he deserves minutes in our rotation.

After getting booed by his own home crowd just for not playing well, I'm estatic that Flip responded as well as he did in a win on the road, in one of the most hostile environment in the NBA, and against one of the top teams in the league.

There isn't a tougher minded player in the league. Do not write this kid off. He may not always play well, but he has absolutely no punk in his heart whatsoever.

Great win for the Supes.

 

Flip played great tonight, gotta give him props. Great win off a big loss by the Sonics.

 

The win was HUGE. Do not underrate the implications of that, with Minnesota losing it stretches our lead back out to 7.5 games, with Charlotte at home coming up. Phoenix lost as well to a shorthanded Grizz, which is nothing more than an interesting sidenote.

Yes, Peja and C-Webb didn't play, but a win is a win.

Props to Flip, he stepped up and produced when called upon. Props to Dwane as well, for giving Flip the chance. And props to Reggie Evans, who dominated the boards all across.

Just huge. Well done on your personal achievements too, Shiek.

 

Ehhh,the win was huge as far as the standings are concerned for the Sonics division.Lets face it though,its Sac without alot of their players including two of their biggest that make up one of the best forward combo's in the league.Was surprised to see they didnt play.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">Ehhh,the win was huge as far as the standings are concerned for the Sonics division.Lets face it though,its Sac without alot of their players including two of their biggest that make up one of the best forward combo's in the league.Was surprised to see they didnt play.</div>

As opposed to the Sonics without their star player and coach, and playing away from home.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No one among the Sonics raised an eyebrow when Danny Fortson walked into the locker room at Arco Arena less than 90 minutes before tipoff.

Said one player: "As long as he keeps on cracking dudes and doing what he does, he can come in here whenever he wants."

Seemingly, Fortson has a habit of skipping the team bus whenever McMillan is absent. The Sonics coach missed a game against the Los Angeles Clippers on Jan. 12, and Fortson was fined for tardiness.

Yesterday Fortson informed the Sonics that he was taking a taxi to the game, Casey said, and is not subject to a fine.</div>

<font size="1">Full Story courtesy of Percy Allen and the Seattle Times.</font>

 

Not having Allen is big,but all it did was give an undercredited fresh player in Murray the minutes he needed to put up 20+points.I think everyone knows thats what he can do.So,he pretty much erased that scoring problem and prevented the need for everyone else to produce more.The Kings on the other hand didnt/dont have a guy that can fill in for Webber and Peja.They combine for around 42ppg,Webber just got a player of the month award.I think the absence of these two players gives any good team an advantage.So,its my opinion that the Kings current lack of personel is more crucial to their success than that of the Sonics.Only reason I mentioned it is because i didnt think it was being recognized.

 

No, you mentioned it because you wanted an excuse for the Kings losing.

 

It makes sense to think thats my reason.My reason for talking about it is that i thought the win and loss was pumped up to be bigger and more significant than it is.Had I thought my reasoning for the loss had already been addressed then I probably would have only posted in the Kings forum and said something like "well the kings played without two of their most important players against a good team.Its no surprise they lost...".To me its just an obvious reason.You'll see it your way i suppose.

 

It's being pumped up because it's such a big win, regardless of who was and wasn't playing. We still didn't have Ray or Nate, we were coming off a bad loss to San Antonio, we were playing away from home on the second leg of a back to back, and we got the W and stretched our division lead over Minny.

That's why it was pumped up, I couldn't care less if Webber and Peja were out or not.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">
Duane Casey is turning into my favorite coach in the league. If you read his quotes from last nights game he made sure to let everyone know that he was confident in Flip and that he was going to continue give him an opportunity. Flip took full advantage of that opportunity tonight and despite the fact that he was on the sideline during crunch time there is no denying that he deserves minutes in our rotation.

.</div>



not necesarily true. Flip did a good job for stepping up for Ray Allen but he still makes a lot of mistakes on the court that Daniels and Ridnour dont make (hence why he was on the bench down the stretch). When Allen comes back its better to have a smarter more reliable player on the court like Rid or Daniels so I still dont think their are any minutes available for him especially sense he has been quite unproductive when seeing 10-15 mpg which is really all that could possibly be available.

 

Yeah, Flip is turnover prone. He's turnover prone b/c he knows that when he gets limited minutes he has to be ultra aggressive to be effective in those minutes. Sometimes that leads to turnovers but I'll take that over him just sitting back and not making an attempt to be productive. If he knew he was going to get 30+ minutes a night he wouldn't be in such a hurry to make a positive play.

You guys can say what you want, but everyone knows deep down that the way Flip has been treated this year has been terrible. He deserves to have the opportunity to showcase his talents. Duane Casey gave him that opportunity and I praise him for it. You know that he is probably being told not to give him that chance b/c of what it could do to the team chemistry when Allen and McMillian return. Casey is confident enough in himself to do things his way and it paid off last night in a win in Sacramento.

This is a long season and we are going to need Flip when it is crunch time.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, Flip is turnover prone. He's turnover prone b/c he knows that when he gets limited minutes he has to be ultra aggressive to be effective in those minutes. Sometimes that leads to turnovers but I'll take that over him just sitting back and not making an attempt to be productive. If he knew he was going to get 30+ minutes a night he wouldn't be in such a hurry to make a positive play.

You guys can say what you want, but everyone knows deep down that the way Flip has been treated this year has been terrible. He deserves to have the opportunity to showcase his talents. Duane Casey gave him that opportunity and I praise him for it. You know that he is probably being told not to give him that chance b/c of what it could do to the team chemistry when Allen and McMillian return. Casey is confident enough in himself to do things his way and it paid off last night in a win in Sacramento.

This is a long season and we are going to need Flip when it is crunch time.</div>

I agree we'll need Flip at some time this season, more likely the playoffs where the game will slow to a crawl - Flip is the ONLY guy on the team besides Ray Allen who can create his own shot, and actually he's probably one of the best guys in the entire league who can free up room to get a good shot anytime he wants. You could see that clearly in last night's game - with the shot clock winding down he easily shook Mobley and got several good looks right at the rim.

But to say he deserves the opportunity to showcase his talents is a little misguided - the Sonics main focus is to win and it's hard to argue the results and current rotation. If they were 12-31 it'd be a different story.

Duane Casey gave him the opportunity because Ray Allen was out and he didn't want to mess up the bench rotation.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Roland Hood:</div><div class="quote_post">If they were 12-31 it'd be a different story.</div>

And that right there is this whole situation in a nutshell.

Flip is a very talented player. He is arguably the best scorer on the roster, he creates his shot better than anyone not named Ray, he doesn't mind playing physical and he has heart.

Unfortunately, he got injured at the wrong time. You can blame Nate all you like, but the bottom line is his rotation has produced a 31-13 record. You can look toward the future and whether or not Ray will come back, and say "We should be giving Flip time just in case Ray Allen leaves", but this team is in pole position to grab a top three playoff seeding and a divisional crown. We're a very young and inexperienced team, but this is too good a chance to bypass the present and look to the future.

Flip's just a victim of circumstance, unfortunately. While he was injured, we've developed a very effective three guard rotation with Vlad as the other main scorer in the second unit. I don't think you can try and fiddle with that now to fit Flip in for his 25 minutes a game, and I don't see the need for any "I told you so"s in a game like this where Ray is unfit.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, Flip is turnover prone. He's turnover prone b/c he knows that when he gets limited minutes he has to be ultra aggressive to be effective in those minutes. Sometimes that leads to turnovers but I'll take that over him just sitting back and not making an attempt to be productive. If he knew he was going to get 30+ minutes a night he wouldn't be in such a hurry to make a positive play.

You guys can say what you want, but everyone knows deep down that the way Flip has been treated this year has been terrible. He deserves to have the opportunity to showcase his talents. Duane Casey gave him that opportunity and I praise him for it. You know that he is probably being told not to give him that chance b/c of what it could do to the team chemistry when Allen and McMillian return. Casey is confident enough in himself to do things his way and it paid off last night in a win in Sacramento.

This is a long season and we are going to need Flip when it is crunch time.</div>

lol your funny Shiek. Did you ever think that Flip is getting this chance under Casey because we dont have Ray Allen. When Lewis went down Flip was getting minutes under Nate so its not anything crazy and deep down I know that Nate has tried to do whats best for the team and whats best for the team is to let Flip sit.

 

For everyone who automatically assumes that we are a better team when Flip isn't playing quality minutes let me remind everyone of one stat:

This season we are 4-1 when Flip plays over 25 minutes.

Win at home against Denver (15 pts, 5, and 4), win at Utah (10 pts), win at home vs. Golden State (17 pts, 6 rbs), loss at home vs. San Antonio (13 pts), win at Sacramento (23 pts).

We aren't playing as well as we were earlier in the season. In January I believe we had a record that 9-8. If we are content with our level of play digressing than I would suggest to keep Flip on the bench. But considering the fact that many key guys aren't producing at the same clip as they were earlier in the year (in particular Rashard Lewis who is reverting back to his inconsistent play from previous years) maybe it is time to cut the minutes of some players that are in the rotation and give those minutes to Flip.

This isn't about saying, "I told you so." I honestly think we are a better team when Flip gets big minutes. If I didn't think so, I would be suggesting that he gets traded to the Bobcats so he could be a league leader in scoring.

As the season rolls on it'll be interesting to see if the home fans (and certain JBB Sonics posters) will continue to boo Flip when his number gets called.

 

Just curious Shiek but whos minutes would you suggest we cut? I mean sense you are now suggesting 25 MPG im very curious as to where these minutes come from...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">For everyone who automatically assumes that we are a better team when Flip isn't playing quality minutes let me remind everyone of one stat:

This season we are 4-1 when Flip plays over 25 minutes.

Win at home against Denver (15 pts, 5, and 4), win at Utah (10 pts), win at home vs. Golden State (17 pts, 6 rbs), loss at home vs. San Antonio (13 pts), win at Sacramento (23 pts).

We aren't playing as well as we were earlier in the season. In January I believe we had a record that 9-8. If we are content with our level of play digressing than I would suggest to keep Flip on the bench. But considering the fact that many key guys aren't producing at the same clip as they were earlier in the year (in particular Rashard Lewis who is reverting back to his inconsistent play from previous years) maybe it is time to cut the minutes of some players that are in the rotation and give those minutes to Flip.

This isn't about saying, "I told you so." I honestly think we are a better team when Flip gets big minutes. If I didn't think so, I would be suggesting that he gets traded to the Bobcats so he could be a league leader in scoring.

As the season rolls on it'll be interesting to see if the home fans (and certain JBB Sonics posters) will continue to boo Flip when his number gets called. </div>

I think the Sonics will try to get back what they had earlier in the season, as opposed to saying it's broke and start changing personnel/rotations, at least at this point. Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen, but you can't blame them since it worked so well and the chemistry was so good in the first 30 games.

Also, I happen to like Flip and wouldn't mind seeing him get more minutes but like Coolguy says, at whose expense? Rashard's our only legit post up guy. Ridnour's our only true point. AD? Maybe but he has this 'intangible' thing going, despite the annoying haibt of pounding the ball. I suppose you could rest Ray Allen some but his outside shooting really opens up the court and affects their spacing on offense.