Shaq's carrying LA I have a point .. and i wanna see who agrees and disagrees with it alot of guys here .. say that Kobe is the best SG/SF in the league ! well .. they might be right under certain circumenstances .. But .. there's a thing that they don't realize or un purposly ignore .. which is kobe never gets Double teamed when Shaq's on the court .. and because of his great Talent and quickness .. he beats the player who guard him pretty easily .. while we see when either AI, Vince, T-mac .. etc they're the spot lights on their teams .. and always double teamed .. i think that makes a difference and we should consider this poin when we compare em .. Kobe lead LA to 3-8 record I guess when Shaq got injured .. I hope u got what I'm talking about ..
don't get me wrong .. Kobe is and will always be a great player .. but I don't see the leader's personality in him .. he can never put a team on his shoulders and take them very far ... I mean when u have PHIL JACKSN as ur coach .... how much would that push u up ... we all know what kobe was like before Phil shows up as the coach of LA .. Maturity has something to do with it .. but the biggest reason from Kobe being the player he is now is PHIL JACKSON .... same thing is happening in DALLAS ... they have 3 all stars in NASH, FINLEY , and DIRK NOWESKY .. which makes it impossible to double team one of them ... because one of the other two is gonna get open .. and u know how extremly well and talanted shooters they are
i agree Half-Man-Half -Amazing. only thing is, we cant say that much about it now since we havent really seen kobe play an entire season without shaq.
great post but youre not saying anyone doesnt know. with shaq the lakers are nearly unbeatable. without him they dont make the playoffs
for once...i agree with olskool...the Lakers will never get far without Shaq...as i've said in another thread, Shaq clears up so much space for Kobe...and Shaq attracts the double team so much...and Shaq's man rarely slides out to defend Kobe's J because he can't leave Shaq...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">great post but youre not saying anyone doesnt know. with shaq the lakers are nearly unbeatable. without him they dont make the playoffs</div> With Kobe the Lakers are nearly unbeatable. Without him they don't make the playoffs. It goes both ways.
BS. Shaq could easily take the Lakers to the playoffs and they would compete for a championship without kobe
^I agree. Shaq took the Magic to the playoffs, and that was before the East was as weak as it is. If Shaq had the right supporting cast around him, I think he could make a good push for the Finals.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Half Man-Half Amazing:</div><div class="quote_post">But .. there's a thing that they don't realize or un purposly ignore .. which is kobe never gets Double teamed when Shaq's on the court .. </div> i guess that you didn't watch the spurs-lakers series...because the lakers had no scoring threat at the 4, TD was able to zone up in the paint and prevent kobe from ever really penetrating. with bruce bowen (excellent defender, i must admit) hounding kobe on the perimeter and TD sitting in the paint...the spurs were effective on shutting down kobe's penetration and shaq's inside game. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust :</div><div class="quote_post">for once...i agree with olskool...the Lakers will never get far without Shaq...as i've said in another thread, Shaq clears up so much space for Kobe...and Shaq attracts the double team so much...and Shaq's man rarely slides out to defend Kobe's J because he can't leave Shaq...</div> ...that's why madsen's/samaki's man always would pop out to help defend kobe... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting oldskoolfunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">BS. Shaq could easily take the Lakers to the playoffs and they would compete for a championship without kobe</div> is shaq didn't have kobe...and the lakers were still meant to be a championship caliber team, there would have to be some MAJOR roster changes...they'll need someone (or a few people) to be able to fill in the shoes of kobe. they'll need someone that can create when the offense stalls. they'll need someone that score in the clutch. they'll need someone that can make a defensive stop in crucial situations. they'll need someone that that'll prevent teams from zoning up on shaq all the time. they'll need a go-to guy that can make their free throws. shaq's team needs to have all of that...if shaq's team doesn't provide the above, whethers its with kobe or without, shaq will never be able to get another ring.
Olskool didn't say he'd win a championship.. Shaq probably wouldn't. Shaq without Kobe would still be a playoff/championship contender. Shaq would definitely need a better supporting cast if he was without Kobe, and he'd probably get that. The Lakers front office isn't completely moronic, so I'm going to assume that they'd provide Shaq with a better supporting cast if Kobe wasn't on the Lakers.
This thread is bull crap. Kobe has scored with people hanging all over him, double teaming him.. Is Penny a good player? Yeah. Was he a great player early in his career? Sort of. Did he ever get double teamed? Yep. Did he and Shaq ever win a title playing together in Orlando? No. Have Kobe and Shaq won playing together in L.A.? Yes! So what Shaq and Penny were in Orlando, Kobe and Shaq surpassed in L.A. So in conclusion kids, we see that Kobe needs Shaq and Shaq needs Kobe.
I think that when people say if Shaq didn't have Kobe the Lakers would remain championship contenders they have a point. The reason for that is because the cornerstone for virtually every championship team is having a dominant big man. Having one of the top two most dominant forces in the game just guarantees being a championship contender basically. Now winning a championship, period, is a whole 'nother thing. In order to actually win the whole thing they would need another threat like Kobe or a great scorer from the wing/guard position.
There seems to be a general consensus that Shaq can do without Kobe but Kobe absolutely needs Shaq. Kobe does need Shaq to win a championship. The only other way he can win a championship or even come close is to change the Laker offense and surround Kobe with a bevy of talented supporting cast such as the one MJ had in Chicago. But the whole notion that Shaq does not need Kobe to even be a Championship contender is absolute garbage and just shows the double-standard and bias that the guy has to put up with from illogical people. When you guys talk about the Lakers being a championship contender without Kobe, who are you talking about replacing Kobe with? One of the other premier guards in the league? A second tier guard? Or just the avrage NBA guard? Because I guarantee you that Shaq needs at least a second tier guard to even have a chance and he at least needs to play alongside one of the premiere guards to be a true contender. Even then that guard would have to extremely adaptable. Evidence of this was seen when Shaq played for Orlando and they built a formidable team of shooters and an elite guard (at the time of course) in Penny Hardaway who was in fact being heralded as the heir apparent to Jordan. They still got dealt with. You have to remember Shaq does not have the versatility the new generation of big men have. He is old school and plays in the paint. Without that second threat Shaq will take them to the playoffs but no farther. Does anyone here honestly think Jordan would have been able to win without Pippen? Do you think he would have won as many without Rodman? The Bulls were an excellent support team that as individually appeared to be replaceable but were actually quite irreplaceable. Switch Robert Horry with Tyrone Hill and the Lakers would not win at least two of those Rings. You can't judge a players team worth by measuring his individual ability with that of another. Just doesn't work that way. Its just a matter of time I think before one of either TD or KG get paired up with an elite guard. Then we will see if the recipe for success is as easy as most of you seem to think it is.
Shaq and Kobe need each other, end of story. We will see what takes place with Kobe next year or when Shaq retires, because they won't be together much longer, count on that.
On the other hand would Kobe be able to to do well without Shaq? He would not win the NBA ... we can all agree with that. But to be fair ... if we are pairing Shaq with another guard of some reputable talents its only fair we judge Kobe's ability after Shaq is replaced with a reasonable big man. You can't just subtract Shaq from the equation and not replace his contribution with anything and expect Kobe to get to the playoffs .... I guarantee you that LA would not get to the playoffs with no-one replacing Kobe. If the lineup was Shaq, Horry, George, Fisher, and Shaw ... LA would be a regular season team. If you are going to compare use a level playing field!
