Should the Military Be Allowed to Detain Americans Indefinitely?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by bluefrog, Nov 30, 2011.

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  1. bluefrog

    bluefrog Go Blazers, GO!

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    The Senate passed the National Defense Authorization Act today. The bill has gotten attention for the worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision.

    LINK

     
    bluefrog, Nov 30, 2011
    #1
  2. GriLtCheeZ

    GriLtCheeZ "Well, I'm not lookin' for trouble."

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    The terrorists are winning.
     
    GriLtCheeZ, Nov 30, 2011
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  3. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    As an ex-Military Policeman I say YES!
     
    THE HCP, Nov 30, 2011
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  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Rand Paul tried to fight it, but failed.

    My view is that if someone fires at our troops and are captured, they can be held like POWs - until the war ends. If we swoop in and arrest someone who we claim is a terrorist, they deserve a trial - even if captured on foreign soil. If anyone is arrested here in the USA, they get miranda rights and the whole works.

    One of these days they'll declare all hispanics as terrorists and throw them in jail without any rights. And as a hispanic causin' panic, they'll come for HCP first.
     
    Denny Crane, Nov 30, 2011
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  5. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The worst-case scenario for the application of that law seems to be that American citizens could be seized on American soil and then the PotUS would refrain from keeping them out of military process. Not a good outcome, and it seems like one that would be an unconstitutional exercise of power.

    I have no problems denying non-citizens all of the rights that citizens are afforded by the Constitution, personally, whether they are in the US or not.

    Ed O.
     
    Ed O, Nov 30, 2011
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  6. Haakzilla

    Haakzilla Well-Known Member

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    [video=youtube;QJAMXXbiskY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJAMXXbiskY[/video]
     
    Haakzilla, Dec 1, 2011
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  7. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    Thank God for Rand Paul.

    Fuck John McCain and he needs to read the Constitution. What a coward.
     
    huevonkiller, Dec 1, 2011
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  8. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    This feels like the same thought process that led to the Japanese internment camps during WWII. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Dec 1, 2011
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  9. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    Pretty F'ed up road were on here
     
    HailBlazers, Dec 2, 2011
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  10. DaLincolnJones

    DaLincolnJones Well-Known Member

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    America is part of the battlefield. We firmly believe the war is coming back home,

    I dont care what country you are in or where you are from, if you initiate an act of terror, or act in a war like manor, you should be treated as a combatent.
     
    DaLincolnJones, Dec 2, 2011
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  11. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I'd submit that America hasn't been a part of the battlefield since Appamattox. There hasn't, in my recollection, been a single "home" that's been hit by anyone, combatant or not, since then (unless you want to include the Unabomber, maybe). LA Times building, WTC (both times), OKC, Pentagon, (even Pearl Harbor!), etc...none were homes or families.

    Compare that with Europe in two world wars, Israel, Iraq, Vietnam, Congo, Korea, Afghanistan, etc. During those conflicts, people are looted, burned out of homes, bombed from the sky and from cars, shot for food, raped, etc. The average American citizen has no idea how unsanitary war is, and it's because our military is all-volunteer and expeditionary in nature.

    There's also a reason that there's Title X, and posse comitatus. Constitutionally, I understand that you can't treat American citizens like combatants (notwithstanding whatever happened with Al-Awlaki, which still puzzles me).
     
    BrianFromWA, Dec 2, 2011
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  12. bluefrog

    bluefrog Go Blazers, GO!

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    How do know who is a terrorists though? The DHS has listed numerous mundane things as suspicious activity that could constitute terrorism, behavior that includes buying gold, owning guns, using a watch or binoculars, donating to charity, using the telephone or email to find information, using cash, etc....

    http://youtu.be/jHjI6mj1jOA
     
    bluefrog, Dec 2, 2011
    #12
  13. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    The actual targets this legislation is aimed at are not terrorists, not immigrants illegal or otherwise, but certain economic classes of American citizens.

    The roundup is going as planned.

    Unless Obama vetoes it as promised, our government will have effectively been overthrown.
     
    MARIS61, Dec 2, 2011
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  14. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Is that a fancy term for a messy house?
     
    MARIS61, Dec 2, 2011
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  15. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    This is the type of issue that makes me think, if the Left and the Right ever got together on their points of agreement...intelligence agencies would never let that happen.
     
    jlprk, Dec 3, 2011
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  16. TradeNurkicNow

    TradeNurkicNow piss

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    I agree. People in this country tend to look at everything wrong with the government and say, "it's all the [insert the opposite of my political leanings]'s fault!" When, in fact, dems and repubs have more in common than they know, and the real issue is, and always will be, classism. Is there any surprise that all this is happening while #Occupy is going down? Try it again next year, hippies.
     
    TradeNurkicNow, Dec 3, 2011
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  17. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    It's not about classism. Republicans don't think that union members are more likely to try to blow up cities, and Democrats don't think that the 1% is, either.

    This is an attempt to stop the "other" from damaging the American way of life. I think (and many agree with me) that it's an overstepping, but the intent (IMO) is not to inhibit hippies or teabaggers. It's to stop foreign influences from crippling us.

    I think that's a legitimate goal--perhaps the single most legit reason for the existence of centralized government--but, again, we cannot sacrifice our citizens at the altar of pubic safety.

    Ed O.
     
    Ed O, Dec 3, 2011
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  18. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    As a lawyer, you probably know many examples of prosecutors making questionable interpretations, stretching laws past original intentions. To harass someone with a terrorism law, the word "terror" can be given an excessively broad definition.
     
    jlprk, Dec 3, 2011
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  19. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    There is no stretching required here. This bill outlaws Free Speech.

    Any person speaking out in any manner of criticism against the criminals who have usurped our Government of the People will be picked up and disappeared for life. Maybe they will be held by the DHS, maybe they will just be dumped in a mass grave.
     
    MARIS61, Dec 3, 2011
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  20. DaLincolnJones

    DaLincolnJones Well-Known Member

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    gotta give it to ya Maris, you do make me laugh. on a sid note, just how many years did you give to your country in the military?
     
    DaLincolnJones, Dec 3, 2011
    #20
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