Shula: Spygate would diminish a perfect Pats season</p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'></p> Don Shula likes the Patriots' chances of going undefeated, but the Bill Belichick-inspired spying scandal has clouded Shula's thinking when comparing New England with his unbeaten 1972 Dolphins team.</p> "The Spygate thing has diminished what they've accomplished," Shula said in an interview with the New York Daily News. "You would hate to have that attached to your accomplishments. They've got it."</p> Belichick was fined $500,000 and the Patriots were fined $250,000 and lost a first-round draft pick for videotaping the Jets' opposing sideline during the teams' season-opening game.</p> "That tells you the seriousness or significance of what they found," Shula said, according to the Daily News. "I guess you got the same thing as putting an asterisk by Barry Bonds' home run record.</p> "I guess it will be noted that the Patriots were fined and a No. 1 draft choice was taken away during that year of accomplishment. The sad thing is Tom Brady looks so good, it doesn't look like he needs any help."</p> The way the Patriots have been playing, Shula and the '72 Dolphins might find themselves answering more questions than in past years about whether their record will stand. New England improved to 9-0 on Sunday by beating the previously unbeaten Colts (7-1) in Indianapolis.</div></p> Now what I don't understand is how taping in the first quarter of the first game, and then getting fined for it, then being watched by the league the most, never doing it again, beating every team because they can, how do they deserve an asterik? How the hell did they cheat when it didn't help them during this season, during the games that they've played or will play. They won them all square and fair.</p> Shula is saying this because he knows this Patriots team could end up being better than his '72 team.</p> </p>
Because we video taped the Jets making signals for half of the first quarter of the first game of the year? Sounds like someone is fretting about losing their place in history.</p> Now lets sit back and wait for someone to talk about how dissatisfied they are with the NFL's investigation.</p>
I find it funny how nothing decent can be said. They are winning and just beat the SuperBowl champs but they have to hear this? C'mon now.</p>
Exactly Universe. This is whats wrong, they're simply winning games because they're good, theres no cheating going on, because all the eyes are on them. But still they keep calling them that and now saying we should put an asterisk on their record.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> I find it funny how nothing decent can be said. They are winning and just beat the SuperBowl champs but they have to hear this? C'mon now.</p> </div></p> </p> How dare people accuse the cheaters of cheating. Its a travesty.</p>
BearsFan1, make your case how they have cheated in their 9 wins so far.</p> Since you are accusing them, lets see what you have.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> BearsFan1, make your case how they have cheated in their 9 wins so far.</p> Since you are accusing them, lets see what you have.</p> </div></p> </p> Ok. However, last time i debated you, you turned to personal attacks against me. If you do that again, i wont reply at all. I will just post "I WIN" as a reply to your every post from here on out. So be very careful to stick strictly to the discussion. "The Cheating Patriots of 2007"</p> They were caught filming defensive signals in the first game vs the Jets. I dont think anyone here believes that those tapes could have been used to affect the game. In fact, even if they hadnt been taken, they would have been of little use, since you would have to compare the signals to the gametape to figure it all out. The only way it would have been useful is if they had broken them down after the game and against the game footage. So obviously the this wasnt a plan to win that game but to have info for future games vs his opponent.</p> It was obvious the Jets knew he would be doing it. Obviously he was doing it 2 years ago when Mangini was there, and that is how he knew. So they have been gathering this data for a very long time. They take the tape they gather in one game and use it as a baseline to cheat in future games. So the patriots film from last year is what they were using to cheat the Jets in the first game. Not the tape from that game. Thus, thier games vs Bills, Dolphins, Colts, etc, etc who they have played in past few years is how they are cheating thier opponents this year.</p> You could make the argument that teams, in light of this info have all changed thier signals to counteract the patriots cheating. I believe that is probably the truth. However, having to switch to a whole new system puts that team at a disadvantage because they would never be as good and clear as a system they had in place for a longer time. Competetive advantage either way.</p> Injury report. Patriots have delibrately used the injury report as a way to put out misinformation. With Harrison getting caught with HGH i think the purpose behind this becomes crystal clear. You can cheat by using HGH to heal injury faster, and by always putting misinformation on injury report no one is surprised by fast recovery..</p> </p> That is how the patriots are cheating this year. By breaking the rules in previous years. Can i prove it for a court of law? No, because the league wanted it to go away and destroyed the tapes. The tapes wouldnt of been destroyed unless he didnt want someone to see what was on them. Does it make sense? ABSOLUTELY. I certainly am not the only one who thinks it.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> because the league wanted it to go away and destroyed the tapes. The tapes wouldnt of been destroyed unless he didnt want someone to see what was on them. Does it make sense? ABSOLUTELY. I certainly am not the only one who thinks it.</p> </div></p> Maybe, I've read too many Political thrillers but the aftermath of spygate sounds like a conspiracy to me.</p> Shula may or may not have apoint IMO.</p> I, personally, am not satisified with the leagues findings, punishment, or how the evidence was handled. But, its history. I've got bigger fish to fry and more important things to worry about things. So, my suggestion is move on & lets stop beating this dead horse.</p> As for punctuation related matters, something something colon.</p> </p>
[quote name='BearsFan1']</p> Ok. However, last time i debated you, you turned to personal attacks against me. If you do that again, i wont reply at all. I will just post "I WIN" as a reply to your every post from here on out. So be very careful to stick strictly to the discussion. "The Cheating Patriots of 2007"[/QUOTE]</p> When was that?</p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> They were caught filming defensive signals in the first game vs the Jets. I dont think anyone here believes that those tapes could have been used to affect the game. In fact, even if they hadnt been taken, they would have been of little use, since you would have to compare the signals to the gametape to figure it all out. The only way it would have been useful is if they had broken them down after the game and against the game footage. So obviously the this wasnt a plan to win that game but to have info for future games vs his opponent.[/QUOTE]</p> They were caught filming during the first half of the first quarter, so they couldn't use it. And did you really think the Jets would be able to beat the Pats?</p> </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> It was obvious the Jets knew he would be doing it. Obviously he was doing it 2 years ago when Mangini was there, and that is how he knew. So they have been gathering this data for a very long time. They take the tape they gather in one game and use it as a baseline to cheat in future games. So the patriots film from last year is what they were using to cheat the Jets in the first game. Not the tape from that game. Thus, thier games vs Bills, Dolphins, Colts, etc, etc who they have played in past few years is how they are cheating thier opponents this year.[/QUOTE]</p> If Bill did it 2 years ago when Mangini was there, I have to accuse Mangini as well because he was the assistant, he was into it, he was helping, and also why didn't he say a word after he left them?</p> Doesn't make sense now does it. After 2 years, now they accuse him. Why? Because thats the first time it has happened.</p> </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> Injury report. Patriots have delibrately used the injury report as a way to put out misinformation. With Harrison getting caught with HGH i think the purpose behind this becomes crystal clear. You can cheat by using HGH to heal injury faster, and by always putting misinformation on injury report no one is surprised by fast recovery..[/QUOTE]</p> A lot of players have been caught using HGH, it helps heal injury faster but in no way does it help on the field. You know that. And again Harrison is just one player, the Pats have won games without him. Explain that.</p> </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> That is how the patriots are cheating this year. By breaking the rules in previous years. Can i prove it for a court of law? No, because the league wanted it to go away and destroyed the tapes. The tapes wouldnt of been destroyed unless he didnt want someone to see what was on them. Does it make sense? ABSOLUTELY. I certainly am not the only one who thinks it.[/QUOTE]</p> How are they cheating? I still don't understand you. They weren't able to use the filming on the first game, and if you say that they've done it in the past and now are using those films, I'll go back to saying that every team does that as well, since you have no proof they've done it before, and neither do I for the other teams but its common sense that it has been tried from other teams.</p> So again bearsfan tell me how they have cheated their way into winning 9 games and beating the champs?</p> </p>
[quote name='CelticKing']</p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> Ok. However, last time i debated you, you turned to personal attacks against me. If you do that again, i wont reply at all. I will just post "I WIN" as a reply to your every post from here on out. So be very careful to stick strictly to the discussion. "The Cheating Patriots of 2007"[/QUOTE]</p> When was that?</p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> They were caught filming defensive signals in the first game vs the Jets. I dont think anyone here believes that those tapes could have been used to affect the game. In fact, even if they hadnt been taken, they would have been of little use, since you would have to compare the signals to the gametape to figure it all out. The only way it would have been useful is if they had broken them down after the game and against the game footage. So obviously the this wasnt a plan to win that game but to have info for future games vs his opponent.[/QUOTE]</p> They were caught filming during the first half of the first quarter, so they couldn't use it. And did you really think the Jets would be able to beat the Pats?</p> </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> It was obvious the Jets knew he would be doing it. Obviously he was doing it 2 years ago when Mangini was there, and that is how he knew. So they have been gathering this data for a very long time. They take the tape they gather in one game and use it as a baseline to cheat in future games. So the patriots film from last year is what they were using to cheat the Jets in the first game. Not the tape from that game. Thus, thier games vs Bills, Dolphins, Colts, etc, etc who they have played in past few years is how they are cheating thier opponents this year.[/QUOTE]</p> If Bill did it 2 years ago when Mangini was there, I have to accuse Mangini as well because he was the assistant, he was into it, he was helping, and also why didn't he say a word after he left them?</p> Doesn't make sense now does it. After 2 years, now they accuse him. Why? Because thats the first time it has happened.</p> </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> Injury report. Patriots have delibrately used the injury report as a way to put out misinformation. With Harrison getting caught with HGH i think the purpose behind this becomes crystal clear. You can cheat by using HGH to heal injury faster, and by always putting misinformation on injury report no one is surprised by fast recovery..[/QUOTE]</p> A lot of players have been caught using HGH, it helps heal injury faster but in no way does it help on the field. You know that. And again Harrison is just one player, the Pats have won games without him. Explain that.</p> </p> [quote name='BearsFan1']</p> That is how the patriots are cheating this year. By breaking the rules in previous years. Can i prove it for a court of law? No, because the league wanted it to go away and destroyed the tapes. The tapes wouldnt of been destroyed unless he didnt want someone to see what was on them. Does it make sense? ABSOLUTELY. I certainly am not the only one who thinks it.[/QUOTE]</p> How are they cheating? I still don't understand you. They weren't able to use the filming on the first game, and if you say that they've done it in the past and now are using those films, I'll go back to saying that every team does that as well, since you have no proof they've done it before, and neither do I for the other teams but its common sense that it has been tried from other teams.</p> So again bearsfan tell me how they have cheated their way into winning 9 games and beating the champs?</p> </p> [/QUOTE]</p> Ok. Well i see you have dismissed everything. First, I am not going to discuss your previous personal attacks.</p> 2. Your defense of my point that it is previous years footage that they used to cheat Jets, is in that game they got caught so they couldnt use it. I say that in my post. You steal signals taht game for future game. Obviously they cheated before, thats how jets knew to alert the NFL. The signals he stole last year gave him advantage in that game. Yes, i think the JETS can beat the patriots. I think the dolphins can beat the patriots. Its the NFL. Any team can lose any week.</p> You say that if bill did it when mangini was there than mangini is a cheater. however, mangini had his wholecareer to lose if pointed out belicheks cheating. There was obviously bad blood after he left, remember the post game issues? Mangini still may not have been secure enough in his job during his first year to say anything. however, after a sucessful season last year he must have felt confident enough to bring it to light. Thus why he called him on it this year.</p> A lot of players have been caught cheating. not every team makes its injury report BS. Only the patriots are notorious for it. Its not one thing, it is both together that make the suspicion</p> You go back to your very weak defense of "everyone does it". Ok well, everyone didnt get caught. Everyone didnt get fined .75 million dollars and a first rd pick. Everyone doesnt have HOF coaches pointing out that the fact that the teams run is tainted. How come my arguments have to be backed up with evidence, but you can make claim every team does it? Ok, back it up!</p> To sum up:</p> Patriots only team caught doing this.</p> League destroyed tapes to protect league from scandal</p> The fact that there were TAPES plural shows they have been doing it a long time. There is evidence. It isnt just about jets game this year. You will defend them with taht, but we both know thats not the whole thing. To be honest, if it were the bears, i would be in denial like most patriots fans are right now.</p>
<font style="background-color: #ff0000" face="Tahoma" color="#ffff00">None of this really matters since the Chiefs will be handing it to the NFC sacrificial lamb in the Super Bowl and New England will fall at leasta game short of pulling it off.</font></p> <font face="Tahoma"><font color="#ffff00"><font style="background-color: #ff0000"><font size="4">Seriously though, It's a little early to engrave the Lombardi trophy. </font>1. Brady or Moss could end up with an injury (see Brown, Ronnie or Johnson, Larry) 2. Colts gave them a good game with Marvin Harrison in street clothes. He should be dressed for the playoffs. 3. Cowboys, Steelers, Chargers, and Saints are all on the rise and it only takes one loss in the playoffs.</font></font></font></p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (44Thrilla)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> I thought that this was the first year that videotaping from the sidelines was illegal?</p> </div></p> Nope and other teams have had incidents with the Patriots. You can go back and look at earlier Spygate related threads and look for my posts. I linked to a couple different accounts that other teams had of incidents with the Patriots filming signals.</p> </p>
The Packers are one such team. They filed a complaint with the league office about the Patriots and their cameras as well.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (44Thrilla)</div><div class='quotemain'> I thought that this was the first year that videotaping from the sidelines was illegal?</p></div> </p> No, last year was. There was a memo at the end of last season clarifying what the field camera could and couldn't do and how the video could be used. That was the memo that Belichick cited in his defense (in that he felt the directive that such tape not be used in game kept him in the clear). At the time when it came up I posted a link to a news story about other teams' practises, and one former team AV specialist that stated he'd regularly used a DV cam in the camera bank that every team has on its sidelines, and that they transmitted video remotely so that the coaches could view footage after. Teams also regularly film opposing coaching staffs from the stands (on top of the still photos they use on the sideline). The field cam rule is one of those nothing rules (in that the practise is perfectly legal if you just move fifty feet), that seems to have a bigger psychological effect than anything else. I suppose the thinking is that footage shot in the stands can't be used in game while footage on the field could. But as you can't really synch the field footage to the game tape in a timely fashion for the coaching staff to break down by half time I don't think it's really that big a deal. As for Shula, it will warm me to the cockles of my heart to see the corks stuck in the champagne bottles this year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehmunro)</div><div class='quotemain'>As for Shula, it will warm me to the cockles of my heart to see the corks stuck in the champagne bottles this year.</div></p> This thread has now reached a new high in lows.</p> Maybe, its better that champagne remains unopened. If a cork wereto get stuck Belichicks throat,then we all know theColts, Dwo, or both would get the blame.</p> </p>
blackadder, a question for you...what do you think about this patriots team this year so far? (without all the drama, spygate, and things like that)</p> Can it be ranked with the top ones of all time?</p>
