http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1187830/index.htm That does not constitute an NCAA violation as long as Lyles provided $25,000 worth of scouting material to Oregon. The majority of programs use scouting services, which provide video and evaluations of players to help college coaches narrow their recruiting options. Oregon has hired a lawyer who specializes in NCAA enforcement issues to help handle the inquiry, but don't expect the school to receive more than a slap on the wrist. While Lyles's service may have violated a minor NCAA rule that requires such businesses to provide material at least four times a year, the NCAA will have a difficult time proving what has become public perception... It may walk like a major NCAA violation, quack like a major NCAA violation and look like a major NCAA violation, but if there's no smoking gun—and so far there is none—it will not be ruled to be a major NCAA violation.
I found the articles description of Kelly interesting. The spotlight lumen sure have been cranked up.
I don't see how Lyles provided $25K worth of scouting information. It was filled primarily with kids who graduated in 2009.
Was it filled "primarily" with kids who graduated in 2009? And how many of those kids went to Juco, and therefore were/are potential recruits this year? Personally, I don't see how a book (alone) can be worth anything approaching $25,000... even if it was really comprehensive and featured high school graduates from a year you would find acceptable. It wasn't just a book, though. There was video and other stuff. I still don't see how it could be worth $25,000. Of course, I don't judge what's worth $25,000 and what's not in the recruiting game. Saying something might be worth $15,000 or $22,500 or $7,500 would me be splitting hairs out of ignorance. Ed O.
I'm hearing talk that there will be a Lyles rebuttal article appearing tomorrow where he levies direct criticism at U. of Texas for a smear campaign I've yet to see anything that makes me truly nervous about Oregon being in violation of NCAA rules. If they were, I would be all for punishing the guilty, but what I've seen/read thus far seems like petty offseason BS rumorama. With success comes greater scrutiny/criticism from jealous rivals with failure egg on their face. You don't run things things through your compliance office if you're being underhanded, you pay cash STOMP
In a separate thread I posted a few random examples of what other programs pay for scouting services. $25,000 is at the high end, but not extreme. Oregon is an elite program and can pay for upgraded and elite services - we do it for staff, equipment - why not information? Truly, what is $25,000 these days? $25,000? Anyone hear about Oregon's new facility includes: Nine dedicated football position meeting rooms Two team video theaters Offense and defense strategy rooms Larger conference suite for the entire coaching staff. Players’ lounge Recruiting center to host prospective student-athletes Dedicated areas to accommodate professional scouts Media interview room Advanced video editing and distribution center Estimated $44,000,000. Put it this way, just our player lockers alone cost $26,000 EACH. That's over $2.6 million just on lockers. $25,000? We're discussing inside information on the best high school players in the nation, folks. What is that worth?? Certainly more than $25,000.
My opinion isn't worth much because all I have to go on are the same articles as everyone else. One person claims this, another claims this. Two scouts, one with an axe to grind against the other appears to be the catalyst. I guess we're all just waiting for the investigation to conclude but nothing so far has changed my confidence in CK.
as of yet there is no official investigation. The NCAA made an inquiry requesting information of Oregon which they've had for months now... thats it. If they decide an investigation isn't warranted, will the NCAA go public an announce Oregon's innocence? Probably not, they just won't proceed with an investigation and will move on to other business... this may already have happened. Fans hung up on some sort of definitive resolution will be left twisting in the wind in anticipation of what isn't coming. Canzano types of course will continue to stoke the fires of various bitter rival fans with evolving theories of what hell is about to be unleashed on UO as those fans will buy into that stuff 8 days a week... it's free money for him. The whole thing sort of reminds me of the Rapture crowd STOMP
http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports/26486736-41/lyles-kelly-oregon-ncaa-coach.html.csp Here's an article from the RG about the situation. Not looking good for the Ducks in my opinion.
I love Chip but if he is or might be going down the Ducks need to secretly reach out to Chris Petersen ASAP.
I'm not buying into the media and opposing fan feeding frenzy. Kelly will be our coach. Coaches find the hot-seat when they lie, because they lose creditability. The only person who has lied so far is Lyles - and that is because he has changed his story, after Oregon said they would no longer hire him. The article states Oregon scrambled and implies a coverup. That is totally open to interpretation. It's entirely possible Oregon asked for documentation of the oral recruiting services they received. However, NCAA guidelines do limit oral services. Oregon and Kelly will be fine. Minor stuff.
When Duck fan says "but others pay for recruiting services" - they're missing the point that they didn't pay for a real recruiting service. Now, we'll dig in a bit into the stuff that's going to be problematic in terms of Lyles and recruiting. There are a number of things in regulation 13.02.14 that put you in the category of a "Representative of Athletics Interests" (ie booster) - usually it's having contributed financially. In Lyles' case: (c) Be assisting or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes Your “smoking gun” here, if nothing else, would be the handwritten notes from back in 2009 from Chip (“we appreciate your help in getting Travon, Dantae, and the whole crew here this past weekend… thanks for orchestrating everything and all your help with these guys”) and Osbourne (“Chip has told us how much help you have been in recruiting. We really appreciate your help with Travon and Dante. We appreciate all that you do for the Oregon Ducks”). There will be a lot of stuff that gets argued (or lied about) that comes down to he said/he said and who the NCAA finds credible, but in this area, the Ducks created a paper trail with those thank you notes that I don't think they can BS their way out of. Terms like “orchestrating everything” and “how much help you’ve been in recruiting” in notes from Kelly and Osborne pretty well spell out that the guy is “assisting in recruiting” and as such, is a “representative of athletics interests”. So, if Willie is a booster, what’s that mean… simply, it means he cannot have contact with recruits. Under 13.1.2 which spells out Permissible Recruiters, you have: 13.1.2.1 General Rule. All in-person, on- and off-campus recruiting contacts with a prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s relatives or legal guardians shall be made only by authorized institutional staff members. Such contact, as well as correspondence and telephone calls, by representatives of an institution’s athletics interests is prohibited except as otherwise permitted in this section. In other words: a) only the members of the coaching staff are to be making in-person contact with recruits, and b) if you’re a booster you’re not only not allowed in-person contact, you can’t call or write. Part B, by the way, is why fans absolutely should not be sending Tweets, e-mails, Facebook posts, etc. to kids that we’re recruiting. There is a section (the “otherwise permitted”) sub-points that allow for exceptions for friends and family that have a pre-existing relationship with the recruit, but that won’t work for Willie. A) His relationship came around because those kids were athletes… it’s not a case that he’s known Seastrunk since he was 10, and B) within that friends/family section it states contact is ok, but: “it being understood that such contacts are not made for recruiting purposes”. What’s it all mean… well, uo has got a booster (who is on the payroll for a dubious recruiting service) helping to get recruits to take official visits, and working with the uo staff to figure out how to get things worked out so a recruit’s mom doesn’t have to sign his LOI. If you go back further (hard to say for sure at what point they’d define him as a booster), that guy was also helping the staff figure out how to get LaMike to graduate from high school because he can’t pass the Texas standardized test. And, all of this was known by the coaching staff - this isn’t some rogue booster out there doing things the staff had no knowledge of. Not only did they know he was doing it, all signs point to the fact that they were paying him to do so. I’m seeing some of the Duck fan spin fall back a bit and turn to “well, ok, it looks like we paid for access and maybe influence, but that’s just a gray area and there were no rules being broken”… I think they’re totally ignorant and/or in denial with that stance. The rules defining boosters, plus the rules in terms of who can recruit pretty well spell out that Willie’s helping them recruit is just not going to fly. Them paying him to help recruit (which certainly seems to be the case given the sham nature of his recruiting service, and is the conclusion that Willie himself came to), is really not going to fly. This may not be a case of “if you make sure player XYZ goes to our school, we’ll give you $25K”, but the NCAA is pretty clear on who they want to limit recruiting activities to, and is going to frown upon the notion of a school throwing a nice chunk of cash at a little recruiting helper who was well outside the definition of those allowable recruiters. At the very least the involvement with Seastrunk and the other two (this is at the very least) that Lyles helped “orchestrate everything” in terms of the 10/31/09 recruiting trip would seem to be major recruiting violations. I’m not sure if there are other Texas recruits that Lyles was involved with that uo actively recruited, but if so, they’ll be tainted too and add to the list. I’ve not seen anything tying him to Lyles, but I wonder about Tra Carson who attended the same HS as LaMike. Oh, and lest folks worry that the NCAA is asleep at the wheel because they didn’t ask all the questions Yahoo asked Lyles… it’s been reported that Friday after the Yahoo story broke they contacted Willie and (obviously) want to follow-up with him.
Copy/paste?? Everything you shared is already known. It presents nothing new. No one is debating that a violation/s occurred. It shouldn't have happen. The issue now is Lyles has changed his story. Since you're so concerned with this, I'm confident you're aware of the Oregon violation involving Coach Campbell and Arrington that lead to a major violation and sanctions in 2004-2006. Being a major, do you recall the penalty? ...thought not... I think you're missing the point. It's doubtful to lead to sanctions of the loss of Kelly. The season will start as scheduled and Oregon will lay wood and probably win another Pac10/12 Championship.
