I'm trying to get a good feel for where we're at right now. It's no secret that we've got a good core of young players mixed in with a few crafty veterans, and that it's all mixing fairly well. We've had great wins along with tough losses. We seem to be right down the middle when it come to most things. Well, I guess my question is - Where are we heading from here? Is our little over 20 game preview just a small sampling of what is to come for the remainder of the season? My answer to that would be that we're finally reaching the end of the introductory period, and moving along to the next stage. The next stage is where I think we will start seeing much more consistent play from the entire roster. Doc seems to be getting a good idea of what guys he can count on and what guys can't make a splash. Pierce has jumped on board with the team's concept and has been the most effective that he's ever been without having to score 40. It only gets brighter from here, right? Delonte West will be coming back from injury and filling in our biggest void. Al Jefferson and Tony Allen seem to be getting better with every minute played. Jiri is becoming more effective the more he plays alongside GP. Raef has been a consistent force on the boards, and he looks more comfortable on his knees as the season goes along. Am I just a victim of my love for the team, or am I making some sense here?
You're not alone in your optimism. I've grown tired of people bashing on PP for every little mistake, without giving him the benefit of the same time frame that they are allowing other players to come around. 20 games is not a good barometer for this team, because after 5 years of coaching/GM non-sense, the turn around isn't going to happen overnight. I'm sitting put with our roster, except perhaps a move on Banks (right now, Snow would be a candidate for a swap). Let everyone continue to get acclimated to the system, adjust to each others games, let the rooks continue to develop ahead of schedule (except Perkins, who's going to need another 1-2 years). Hopefully we'll win some more games that way people will get the hell off PP's back, because I'm tired of him not getting any due credit when we win and taking an inordinate piece of the blame when we lose.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">My answer to that would be that we're finally reaching the end of the introductory period, and moving along to the next stage. The next stage is where I think we will start seeing much more consistent play from the entire roster. Doc seems to be getting a good idea of what guys he can count on and what guys can't make a splash. Pierce has jumped on board with the team's concept and has been the most effective that he's ever been without having to score 40. It only gets brighter from here, right?</div> Right. I've been saying for a couple weeks that things are going to improve and I think they have been. I think that everyone is now getting adjusted to their roles and the team has started to come together and now knows what they have to do to win close games. The immediate future is bright. Look at their schedule. If they can come out mid-January near .500, this team can take off and make a run at the division.
Bill Simmons ripped off my thread title and wrote an article by the same name... On Al <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"># His per-minute numbers for the first 2 months are dead-on with Amare Stoudemire's numbers during his rookie season. You can look it up. # He's completely lost on defense, which is the only reason Doc isn't playing him more. But he's gone from "Complete disaster" to "Passably bad" in 30 games. And getting better. Again, they didn't expect him to play for two seasons. Now you could make a strong case that he should be learning on the job and getting Blount's minutes because Blount has been such an abomination. In fact, I just made the case.</div> On Allen <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Three other things I love about Allen: A.) He's the best defensive player on the team (nobody else is close), to the point that the Ron Artest comparisons started coming fast and furious during summer league; B.) he plays with a healthy amount of swagger, almost to a fault at times (like when he ripped Rodney Rogers' headband off after a dunk on Monday; C.) he's the best teammate on the team, always standing up and cheering on everyone else. I love this guy. Can you tell? One thing I REALLY love about Allen: Supposedly he gets so excited about a good dunk, he actually blacks out for a second or two after it happens. Like after the Hornets game, he had no recollection of pulling Rogers's headband off. It was like when Alison used to black out on "Melrose Place." Now that's a fun guy to have on a team.</div>Full Article
I told everyone last year who slammed Danny Ainge, look at what he's doing because this is what you call "rebuilding". I don't care who he traded, or who he didn't sign, he stock piled young talent, he stock piled draft selections, and he began to clear out the payroll. I still question if we've found that solid bigmen who can produce enough in the front court to carry this team when needed, but we still have enough time and enough pieces to make such a transaction. I love what Ainge has done thus far, I don't recall being this excited about The Celtics's future in YEARS!
While I usually agree with most of what Simmons says (I still say his Celtic coverage is better than what the Globe or Herald throws out) I do have to disagree with his on a couple points: He says that Jefferson is the only current Celtic with a chance to have his number in the rafters. I disagree with that. I know in part 2 he basically ships Pierce out of here, but I'm not so sure Paul is going anywhere. Call it a vibe, a hunch... whatever, but I think he's staying. And if I'm right he'll end his career as the best offensive player in Celtic history and his number is going up there... He rips Blount a new one and for the most part he's right, but I think that he overlooks how the Celtics rarely, if ever, actually run a play designed for the guy. Pierce and Davis go for long stretches forgetting the guy is even on the floor. Not to mention, Blount came up and earned his way on the floor through hard nosed defense and now offense is the hot thing. Is has to be frustrated when the thing your best at is no longer held to a premium like it used to be.
Im not as optimistic as you guys. I still dont see any difference now from the last ten years. "the celtics are rebuilding" "they have a plan now" "theyve stockpiled young talent" "they have a lot of potential" "they just need to show more consitancy" "theyre going to start playing a lot better soon" "theyre rebuilding" "im danny ainge and i have a vision" blah blah blah dont get me wrong I love the young Celtics players (ecxept marcus banks) but I dont see them turning into a championship type team any time in the next few years. I think the state of the celtics is what it is: a sub .500 team or a "LOSING" team if you prefer.
I checked out that Bill Simmons article you posted. The word "genius" is thrown around all too often today and I'd hate to use it on something as trivial as a basketball article but his assessment of Marcus Banks is one of the true pieces of brilliance I've ever seen displayed by a sports writer. He's so dead on and articulate its almost scary: "1. He has no leadership abilities whatsoever. I can't emphasize this strongly enough. He even goes the other way -- he'll show someone up on the court if they screw up an alley-oop pass or something. He's the kind of guy everyone ends up hating in a pickup game, the guy with whom you don't even want to make eye contact at the water fountain between games. That's Marcus. 2. During timeouts, when GP would give him advice, Banks would basically snub him. Now GP ignores him for the most part. Smart move, blowing off a Hall of Famer who wanted to help you become a better player. That will get you far. 3. In my mind, the most important parts of playing point guard include: Overall court vision; unselfishness; the ability to even see the open man; a rudimentary sense of right and wrong when running a fast break; knowing your teammates strengths and weaknesses and tailoring your game around them; the good sense to take of your big guys when they're running the floor; when to take over a game and when to bide your time; and showing consistent leadership on the court. Unfortunately, Banks gets a solid "F" in every category right now. I'm not kidding. EVERY category. Maybe this will change over the next few years ... but right now, I can only judge what I see. And I see a fast guy with an attitude problem who has no idea how to play basketball. He could be in All-Star in 5 years and I wouldn't be surprised. He could be playing in Greece in 5 years and I wouldn't be surprised. So there you go." DEAD ON!! thats marcus banks in a nutshell Simmons aslo made some good points about Mark Blount. Perhaps he was a little harsh. I mean hey at least the guy is in the league leaders in FG% but he pointed out what i tried to tell some of you and that is that because of his contract he's prety much impossible to trade
I read the Simmons article...I like Simmons, alot most of the time.....I thought he was pretty much on point except for the rips on Pierce......Ive never questioned that Pierce has ALWAYS played hard and wanted to win....Simmons seems stuck on Pierce's body language and his little riff with Doc....since that riff, you can see he's buying into the system more and more....in this system hes not gonna put up 30 to 40 points a night......If he scores 18-25 in this system, that doesnt mean he had a bad game.....and he says Jefferson is the only person on the team who has a chance to get his number retired.....I guess Pierce has been a scrub since he's been here...hes gonna pass Tommy Heinsohn on the all time Celtic scoring list and hes not gonna have his number retired??? Come on, Simmons...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NUMBA 17:</div><div class="quote_post">he says Jefferson is the only person on the team who has a chance to get his number retired.....I guess Pierce has been a scrub since he's been here...hes gonna pass Tommy Heinsohn on the all time Celtic scoring list and hes not gonna have his number retired??? Come on, Simmons...</div> I don't think he was saying that because he thought Pierce was a scrub, I think he was saying more along the lines that Pierce would not play in Boston longer than another season or 2 and if he didn't finish his career in a Celtics uniform than he wouldn't get his number retired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">i thought he was a little hard on ricky davis</div> But, he is on point that Ricky can be a little out of it. He's the one guy that if you didn't know the score and just watched Ricky, you would have no idea if the Celtics were up by 20 or down by 20.
Yea, because Ricky gives it his all ALL the time. He plays hard wether the celtics are up 20 or down 20 and where I come from thats a GOOD THING
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea, because Ricky gives it his all ALL the time. He plays hard wether the celtics are up 20 or down 20 and where I come from thats a GOOD THING</div> Playing hard the whole game is a good thing... only thats not what I meant. What I meant is that if you look at a player who's team is down 20, most look mad, sometimes embarassed. If you look at a player who's team is up 20, most look stoked. My seats are a few rows behind the Celtics bench, so I get to look at him all season long. If you watch Davis you can't tell which it is, because Ricky looks the same either way: like he doesn't give a crap if his team is winning or losing... I don't care where your from, thats not a GOOD THING. Maybe its from years of playing on crappy teams, I don't know. But I know I don't like it. Yes, Ricky plays hard and yes, I believe he wants to win. But, I also believe that if they don't win, he'll sleep fine as long as the check clears. I know its a long season in the NBA and yeah, one loss may not matter in January. But when the loses start piling up and you still look dis-interested? Then its a problem. I'm one of the first to point out the failings of a guy like Pierce around here, but you have to admit this, the guy cares. He looked genuinely dissapointed coming off the floor tonight. Those are the kinds of guys that I want to have on the Boston Celtics.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CeltsMan54:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yes, Ricky plays hard and yes, I believe he wants to win. But, I also believe that if they don't win, he'll sleep fine as long as the check clears. </div> Thats every player in pro sports <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know its a long season in the NBA and yeah, one loss may not matter in January. But when the loses start piling up and you still look dis-interested? Then its a problem. </div> Disinterested???? Granted Ricky looks similar whether the team is winning or losing but that look isnt what u can describe as "disinterested". On the contrary Ricky, more than any other player on the team looks like he wants to be there. all the time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm one of the first to point out the failings of a guy like Pierce around here, but you have to admit this, the guy cares. He looked genuinely dissapointed coming off the floor tonight. Those are the kinds of guys that I want to have on the Boston Celtics.</div> So does Ricky. And Pierce looked plenty dissapointed. He looks dissapointed all the time. He looks like he doesnt wanna be there and hes just there coz hes getting paid. I want to have guys on the Boston Celtics who love to win and love to play basketball. Ricky fills both of those categories, Pierce only one. Im not trying to say I like Ricky better than Pierce but Im surprised that anyone is still more concerned and distressed with Rickys body language than with Pierce
I dont really want to get into this "who looks like they want to win more, Pierce or Davis" snit, because i think we as fans put WAY too much into body language and what a players face looks like. The way they both play and throw there bodies around, im comfortable with the effort of BOTH dudes, and Im glad they are both on the team. I agree with the people who said Simmons was a little rough on Ricky, though. As I just said, the guy plays hard all the time, he's been on good behavior since he got traded to the Celtics, I kept hearing all off season how hard he was working, and he accepted a role off the bench. What the hell is wrong with that? You have to take the good with the bad though, and we all know Ricky can be a little loco at times...LOL. Id still take him on my squad.
yea. My problem with Simmons' assessment of Ricki is that he seemed to want to argue that ricki was "relegated" to the bench when in actuallity they put him their because they thought he'd give the team that boost they needed when the second unit comes in (which he has done admirably) almost as if they felt he was TOO good for the starting lineup. I also agree, "body language" is total BS 94% of the time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats every player in pro sports</div> No its not and thats the point. I know of guys that can't sleep after losing. See, there's not liking to lose and there's hating to lose. You can tell which guys hate it, because they're usually the ones holding the trophy when the season is over. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Im surprised that anyone is still more concerned and distressed with Rickys body language than with Pierce</div> Of course, I mean, why should I be concerned with Ricky? He's only the team's second leading scorer and plays on a second unit with Jefferson, Allen, Banks and more and more frequently, Perkins. That's only the future of the franchise. Sure, let him blow off mandatory team meetings to go on a boat ride in Miami. I'm sure that behavior like that won't effect the young guys in the least. Look, there's a reason Cleveland got him away from LeBron as quickly as possible. I'm with Simmons: I like the guy enough, but I just feel his minuses outweigh the plusses.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CeltsMan54:</div><div class="quote_post">No its not and thats the point. I know of guys that can't sleep after losing. See, there's not liking to lose and there's hating to lose. You can tell which guys hate it, because they're usually the ones holding the trophy when the season is over.</div> thats BS!!! BS!!! YES IT IS!!! EVERY player in pro sports is like that. Even if they werent, how would you know? How many NBA players have you slepts with? For all you know Ricky wakes up in a cold sweat and runs to the can and vomits after every loss just because he HATES losing so much!! Every player hates to lose. Especially good players like Pierce and Ricky but in the end its not a big disaster for ANY of them coz they still gets paid!! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course, I mean, why should I be concerned with Ricky? He's only the team's second leading scorer and plays on a second unit with Jefferson, Allen, Banks and more and more frequently, Perkins. That's only the future of the franchise. Sure, let him blow off mandatory team meetings to go on a boat ride in Miami. I'm sure that behavior like that won't effect the young guys in the least.</div> DONT YOU BE SARCASTIC WITH ME!!! THATS MY JOB!!! dont make up stuf either. Besides even if that really happened this is the fatal flaw in you and Simmons' assessment of Ricky. You'll find or make up one story that may or may not have happened with RIcky, point to it as an example of what he represents and how bad he is for the team and act like its the whole story and sums him up perfectly! how convenient for you! well it DOESNT!! For every one example you may point to of how hes a bad influence on the rest of the team theres 20-30 examples of the exact opposite and they are the way he demonstrates his love and passion and (gasp) respect for the game EVERY time he's on the court ecxept for those increasingly scares mental blunders he became infamous for earlier in his career. It's like "Gee! I think Im gonna find clips of every shot Michael Jordan ever MISSED and put them together in a montage to show how much he really SUCKED!!!" thats exactly what you're doing. It's time for people like you and Simmons to admit that youve become so obsessed with hating on teh ricky davis you saw in cleveland that you are blind to what he has become and that is a positive influence on the team and the most enthusiastic player on the court at all times ecxept when tony allen is out there. No matter how old or old fashioned you are you can point to Ricky Davis (even if you hate his game) and say "now THAT boy LOVES to play basketball". you cant say as much about several players on the celtics just by looking at them
