Step back and think

Im reading alot of negative things about this team so far, how we lost so much...you have to also remember that a couple of guys on this team can improve on last year. Stepan may be able to continue to grow, kreider can expand on this point production, st loius will give us more points I a full season over what callahan gave. All it takes is 2 goals by boyle to out produce strahlman. Can we get double digits from miller? This is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
Not to mention a full season under av, no stupid long opening road trip and a real training camp.....all it takes is getting Into the playoffs and anything can happen.

 

Right now it is negative, we are clearly worse, but it doesn't matter on July 4th it matters in October.

I agree with you 100% on Stepan, Kreider, and a full season of MSL. I think Step breaks the 60 point # this season, he was close this past season. Kreider I think goes for 20 +. And having MSL from game 1 should help as well.

So yeah there will be internal growth no doubt. I fully expect that.

But we lost Richards, Pouliot, Boyle, and Dorsett and only added Glass upfront, so even with some players taking a step forward we need more upfront (I consider Stralman for Boyle pretty much a wash or maybe slight upgrade/downgrade so not crazy).

That is why AV and Gorton both said more work to be done. I also find it difficult to believe we will have all these dmen, so a deal is coming there IMO.

So we are worse no doubt I believe, but it is July 4th and a long way to go. We'll see what we do.

 

I consider Boyle a great improvement over strahlman. Dont let the playoffs fool you with the announcers sucking him off.
As for richards, I dont expect his production to be similar to last year, I do expext the increase production from kreider and stepan to offset that. I expect st loius season to be as good as callahan and pouliot combined.
I do not expect, however, haggs and zucc to have as successful seasons without another centerman added.

I do expect a trade involving talbot and staal before the season. I expect mac to have a even better year as he grows.

 

I think for once sather showing some restraint and not making the usual 5 to 7 year for 6 mill plus signing is a good thing. Agree with the 20 something looking Al LOL Boyle is a huge plus over strahlman who somehow achieved legendary status for a couple of playoff rounds that outside a couple of big hits(probably more than he had the whole season) I saw the same can't score, turnover prone and couldn't move my mother out from in front of the net strahlman. We're wringing our hands over richards, poulliot and brian boyle??? Really!! Ha ha ha. Looking forward to adding to the squad some of Miller, lindberg, fasth, Big mac and even allen to the mix for next year. I expect sather to make a trade which I much prefer he do than the free agent stuff and pick up another forward or center up front. But I don't want to tie up roster spots with the likes of Duclair, Buc and brady coming in the next year or 2. I'm surprised Sather hasn't retired yet but with gorton seemingly taking a little higher profile these days I think that change will be coming sooner than later which will be good. So everyone relax, enjoy the summer and watch as things come together. Opening night is months off and the trade deadline months after that so plenty of time and no need to panic. Still hoping slats can find the young adam graves like center on another team and trade for a piece like that. We'll be fine.

 

Look at what you just wrote Al, that is very pie in the sky man. I am not saying it won't happen, but come on there is clearly no lock here.

I don't like Stralman either, and thank god we didn't give him 4.5 per for 5 seasons, but I cannot sit here and say 38 year old Boyle is a "great improvement" over Stralman. Better on O and worse on D is how I see it. Boyle's production has dropped every season the past 3 or 4 seasons. The last 2 season he has been a 12 goal 36 point guy. Solid, but not wow what a huge improvement over Stralman when you factor in O and D. I stand by my pretty much neutral swap when comparing those two. Maybe slight edge one way, but no huge upgrade IMO.

Richards scored 20 goals this past season. That gets forgotten but it happened. Now I 100% agree that Stepan and Kreider improve and can cover for some of what Richards did, but we need to add someone else upfront to give us more balance and depth. The depth is what carried us this season, let's not forget that Al.

Then you say MSL will equal what Cally and Pouliot did here combined. Again I expect a good season from MSL, but those are two solid guys, neither of whom I would come close to signing based on the deals they got, but solid players none the less. We lost depth here as well. Again we need another forward to help out and give us some depth back.

I agree with you on Hags and Zucc. We talk about players going forward like Step and CK, but maybe Zucc comes back a little? He going to score 60 points again? Maybe, but maybe not.

Now where we agree 100% is on Staal, I also think he gets traded for the O we need. We have too many dmen, I just don't see how a deal isn't coming there. And I also agree that McDonagh will take another step and become a clear top 6 or 7 dman scoring 15 goals and 50 points. I expect big things.

So we agree alomst across the board Al, but to me it is pie in the sky to say Stepan and CK getting better replaces Richards. And MSL for a full season replaces Pouliot and Cally.

Aside from expecting a lot from those guys, which could happen we agree, you also lose a lot of depth...depth that was our calling card this past season. Our 3rd line needs a bump, no doubt in my mind, and I expect we add some O soon just like you do.

 

i just quit my job to become a table tennis player, i hired a coach, and he will be living with us!


big guy, no matter what we have done in last 20 since winning it all, results have been same, find a way to lose miserably in the beginning, middle, and the end!

that's the resume of a rangers fan! we have officially become the jets, mets, & knicks fan

 

I still dont see Staal getting traded. Like you said Chuck, we took a slight step back defensively switching out Stralman for Boyle. I can't see us taking a second step back and shipping Staal out and replacing his minutes with Klein. If negotiations don't go well that's one thing, but I dont think trading him is the right move.

Klein-Boyle as the second pair? That's just not good enough.

 

you get rid of staal cause the rangers had high expectations, and he has not lived up to it, he can only be viewed as an embarassment to the org! TRADE HIM !

 

Haha pasta started drinking early I see.

We signed Boyle...you hated it. Now you want to trade Staal because he's an "embarrassment." Who exactly do you want to see play D for the rangers because I dont think I've ever heard you say one good thing about a dman, or any player for that matter.

 

I hear you Prod, and who knows what will happen with Staal, but I do think you hit on the issue...what do we do with his contract? I have to assume he will want something similar to what Girardi got, 5.5 per for 5 or 6 years, if not more...so the question is do we want to give him that kind of deal? It is a fair question and a good debate can be had about it.

Staal has had many injuries in his career, and obviously has a concussion past as well, so it is a risk I think. On top of that Klein is signed for a few seasons. Girardi is signed long term. McD is signed long term. Boyle is signed for two seasons. Moore will get a new deal for two seasons at least really soon. So that is 5 dmen signed for at least two seasons, and 3 dmen signed longer term. Do we want to add another one to that mix and sign Staal for 5 or 6 years? That could cause a block for Skjei and McIlrath and Allen.

So there are a lot of questions surrounding signing Staal long term, injury wise and blockage wise. AND we don't know for sure he even wants to sign ong term here even if we wanted to sign him.

When you add it all up, I personally would deal Staal IF we can get a big forward (hopefully a C) for him now. OR if he gives the impression he wants a huge new deal or wants to go elsewhere next summer.

So I would be exploring deals for Staal to help our big need upfront for many reasons as mentioned. Staal has also said he doesn't want to go into next season without a deal, so I have to believe right now Sather knows where we stand with Staal on a new deal and will decide which way to go based on that.

I do think whether it is Staal or not, that we should deal some D for some O. We have a lot of dmen now, and need a forward/C, so I think something will happen...AV and Gorton pretty much said something wil happen as well.

 

So would you be comfortable going into next year with Klein-Boyle as the second pair? I'd like to upgrade the offense too, but that's just taking too much of a step back on D in my opinion.

 

As of now i'd say they look like a team that could win one round in April.

 

You don't know that to be the case Prod. First we could get a decent dman back in a deal for Staal. And second maybe we can sign another dman to be solid and play a role with Boyle, Klein, Moore, and some of the kids.

The only thing I feel very strongly about is if Staal doesn't seem like he wants to re-sign here I would deal him now. And I would also add if he wants a Girardi type deal I just don't think I would do that with Staal, and thus would deal him now rather than mid-season when he will be more difficult to replace.

 

True, I don't know that to be the case. But given the cap situation and the type of player we want to add (a number 1 C), I don't see us fitting a C and another top 4 dman unless somebody else significant goes along with Staal.

 

I am kind of past saying we need to get a # 1 C or else. I think we just need to add more O. So maybe Staal for a solid forward and a solid dman. I could see something like that. Plus who knows if we get larger and maybe Staal and Brassard for a decent dman and a C.

Never know what is going to happen, but the truth is we really have to make a decision on Staal. It isn't just trade him or not, it is do we want to sign him long term or not. If the answer is no, and for me it would be if he wanted a Girardi type deal, then we should deal Staal this summer for sure IMO.

At least that's my take on the situation. Add in fact that we have some D depth, and need forward scoring, and I think it seems to point in a certain direction.

 

For Staal being a UFA what you would hope to get in return is a good 3rd liner and a decent 5/6 dman. Even if you have to throw in a decent prospect that's not bad. I still think Tlusty and Harrison or Sekera for Staal/prospect would be helpful to us.

 

I think lean toward signing Staal up to but not over Girardi money. Having your top 3 dmen locked up long term for a combined 15 mil or so isn't so bad. Look around the league, that's where most of the competitive teams end up. As I've said, I then get Klein out of here for whatever we can get and give the 6th spot to Allen/McIlrath/Bodie/Hunwick.

Let's also not forget that Staal is our biggest dman right now. Blueline already got smaller bringing in Boyle.

 

So let's say you do that Prod, which is a risk due to the concussion and injury history of Staal, you are really locked up on D for at least the next two seasons.

Staal, Klein, McD, and Girardi all signed for 3 + years. Moore will be signed for at least two very soon. And Boyle is also signed for two years.

So that doesn't leave a lot of room for McIlrath, Skjei, and Allen anytime soon.

Now of course you can flip someone in a trade and open up a spot, but as it would stand, if you re-sign Staal for 5 or 6 years with a cap hit in the mid 5's like Girardi, you are really locked up on D for a while. Now that isn't a bad thing per se, but then I say you should deal some of the kids for a scorer now.

So I personally wouldn't re-sign Staal for that kind of deal, but if I kept him now and did give him that kind of deal I would right now flip a kid and/or Klein to add O. To me it doesn't make much sense at all to re-sign Staal for 5 or 6 years, re-sign Moore for at least 2 years, AND keep all the kids/Klein as well. That doesn't seem to make sense to me given Hank at 32. Nash and Girardi at 30. MSL at 39. Boyle at 38.

So keep Staal, I get it for this season how it would be a big blow to lose him from the top 4, but I say we have to make some deal of D for O even if it is not with Staal as the main player going the other way.

 

And BTW...I am fine with dealing Klein for O and keeping Staal, but I am just not sure we can get the scoring we need for Klein. Maybe you can package Klein and a prospect/pick for a proven scorer that we need, that is possible, but the cap may come into play there. Klein makes 2.9 mill and Staal makes 3.9 mill, so an extra mill is kept here by dealing Klein instead of Staal.

This is all a good discussion as we wait to see how we finish off the team this summer. I think we agree on one thing, we do need to add another scorer/forward. And we may agree on another, if we don't get a good feel from Staal with regards to re-signing him and/or he wants huge money and long years to re-sign, then we should deal Staal now.