<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> NEW YORK -- An academic study of NBA officiating found that white referees called fouls at a greater rate against black players than against white players, The New York Times reported on its Web site Tuesday night. The study by a University of Pennsylvania assistant professor and Cornell graduate student also found that black officials called fouls more frequently against white players than black, but noted that that tendency was not as pronounced. Justin Wolfers, an assistant professor of business and public policy at Penn's Wharton School, and Joseph Price, a Cornell graduate student in economics, said the difference in calls "is large enough that the probability of a team winning is noticeably affected by the racial composition of the refereeing crew." The study, conducted over a 13-season span through 2004, found that the racial makeup of a three-man officiating crew affected calls by up to 4? percent. The NBA strongly criticized the study, which was based on information from publicly available box scores, which show only the referees' names and contain no information about which official made a call. "The study that is cited in the New York Times article is wrong," president of league and basketball operations Joel Litvin told The Associated Press on Tuesday night. "The fact is there is no evidence of racial bias in foul calls made by NBA officials and that is based on a study conducted by our experts who looked at data that was far more robust and current than the data relied upon by Professor Wolfers. "The short of it is Wolfers and Price only looked at calls made by three-man crews. Our experts were able to analyze calls made by individual referees." Litvin said the NBA's study, using data from November 2004 to January 2007, included some 148,000 calls and included which official made each call. The Times said the NBA denied a request by Wolfers and Price to obtain that information, citing its confidentiality agreement with the officials. The study also found differences in everything from a decrease in scoring to a rise in turnovers depending on the officials' race. "Player-performance appears to deteriorate at every margin when officiated by a larger fraction of opposite-race referees," Wolfers and Price wrote. But the key finding was in regard to foul calls, saying "black players receive around 0.12-0.20 more fouls per 48 minutes played [an increase of 2?-4? percent] when the number of white referees officiating a game increases from zero to three." The NBA has an observer at each game and closely monitors its officials, who are required to file reports after each game they work and are expected to be able to explain each potentially controversial call they have made. Litvin said in an original version of the paper, dated March 2006, Wolfers and Price came to the conclusion that there was no bias. He added that the NBA's research "all prove beyond any doubt in our minds that these guys are just flat wrong." "They reached conclusions in their own papers that are unsupported by their own calculations," Litvin said. Wolfers and Price are set to present the paper at meetings of the Society of Labor Economists on Friday and the American Law and Economics Association on Sunday. The Times said they will then submit it to the National Bureau of Economic Research and for formal peer review before consideration by an economic journal.</div> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2857469
The NBA Knew about this study and provided a counterstudy that proves this wrong. Plus no players have complaints about it. My boy Hinrch gets no love fron the refs. Hes white. He gets his ass beat every night and there is no whistle.
I'd have to really look at the studies before I comment.......all I'll say is that if this "is" truen then it doesn't surprise me...I mean if you look at things like teaching, teachers are more likely to place kids in special education classes when that student isn't the same skin color as them....I'm not saying these studies are true, but racism can be involved in just about any and everything.
Black NBA players are generally more athletic and physical, white NBA players are generally more soft and perimeter oriented. Obviously there are many exceptions, but lets be honest, as a general statement that’s the truth … That alone explains the foul discrepancy. If they did a study on who gets more whistles in their favor, I bet it would show the black players do as well… not because the refs favor them, but because they generally get to the basketball more, are more physical etc etc… conversely, that's why they get called for more fouls, because they play that way on defense as well.. it has nothing to do with race ... not the calls anyway... its more the style of play It’s a dumb study, twisted a dumb way, to try to instigate a dumb argument.
This is the most idiotic study I've ever read. Did they forget that 7 out of 10 players in the NBA are black? To quote Charles Barkley, "These guys are jackasses." Couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah, a team full of black people such as the Pistons really have the refs out to get them. Waste of money on this stupid study.
This study's stupid in so many different ways. It ignores tons of variables like the individual's playing style, skill level, experience, attitude towards the officials, role on the team as well as the team's playing style and talent level. Those are just off the top of my head. By just generalizing like that you can't really conclude anything with these results. They just worded it a certain way, so it would ignite a debate that a lot of people are sensitive to.
Here's a link to the article. Just curious, to all the people here that said it was stupid, a waste of time, dumb, etc. -- have any of you actually read it yet? <div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This is the most idiotic study I've ever read. Did they forget that 7 out of 10 players in the NBA are black? To quote Charles Barkley, "These guys are jackasses." Couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah, a team full of black people such as the Pistons really have the refs out to get them. Waste of money on this stupid study.</div> That the majority of NBA players are black is irrelevant to their findings. <div class="quote_poster">notMuchgame Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Black NBA players are generally more athletic and physical, white NBA players are generally more soft and perimeter oriented. Obviously there are many exceptions, but lets be honest, as a general statement that’s the truth … That alone explains the foul discrepancy. If they did a study on who gets more whistles in their favor, I bet it would show the black players do as well… not because the refs favor them, but because they generally get to the basketball more, are more physical etc etc… conversely, that's why they get called for more fouls, because they play that way on defense as well.. it has nothing to do with race ... not the calls anyway... its more the style of play</div> They weren't simply claiming that blacks get called for fouls at a higher rate than whites. They're saying that white officiating crews tend to call fouls on black players at a higher rate than black officiating crews. Actually, according to them, on average black players got called for 4.33 fouls per 48 minutes, while white players got called for 4.97 fouls per 48 minutes. The real issue is how that foul rate changes depending on the racial makeup of the officiating crew. Overall, the difference is so small as to be virtually indetectable, which is why most players will say "Oh, I never noticed anything like that."
This is just stupid, there are far more black players in the league than White, so regardless of what findings they went on, it isnt a level playing field. It's like saying more white guys score goals in the NHL than black guys.
I skimmed through and I'm still left unconvinced. There's just too much of a generalization and I thought it used rhetoric to create a connection that just can't be proved. They don't account for the disparity between the number of white and black players in the league. They don't account for things like talent level, playing style, gameplan, reputation, role, pace, etc. which all affect how fouls are called. Instead, they make parallels to racial bias in the police force and in job hirings and just throw out the term discrimination, without really proving it. If I'm wrong, go ahead and point it out, but I don't see how they can make such a big assumption.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">They don't account for things like talent level, playing style, gameplan, reputation, role, pace, etc. which all affect how fouls are called. </div> Are you suggesting that white officiating crews tend to referee games with a higher pace than black officiating crews, or with players of higher talent than black officials, or with more physical playing styles than black officials, etc.? Because that's very unlikely, particularly over a 13-year span. All those factors are determined by the teams involved. And, for any given matchup, the "race" of the officiating crew is almost perfectly random. To recap, the study finds that black players get called for fouls at a (very)slighty higher rate (more often, per minute) the more "white" an officiating crew is. Additionally, they also find that white players get caleld for at fouls at a slightly higher rate the more "black" an officiating crew is, though the difference isn't as much. Since we can assume that officiating crews are more or less randomly chosen, this can't be attributed to correlations between the race of the officiating crew and the profile of the teams they officiate for (play at a fast pace, play physically, etc.).
"im not black, but there's a whole lot of times i wish i could say im not white" Frank Zappa i dont really know what to think of this, seems like a stupid kind of study. if you think about how many officials there are, there is a good chance that some of them are going to be a little racially biased. i mean its not like its a new thing in america, racsism excist in america without hardly any opposition. its ignored and brushed under the carpet. It doesnt suprise me that there is some inequality by the officials in the nba, because the nba is pretty ****** on the inside anyway, i mean it is being run by a dictating buisnesman who i already suspect to be extremely racialy biased. anyway this study is sort of pointless because the difference in numbers arent great enough to say that there is a serious issue. But if it was the opposite statistical evidence, that white players were getting the short end of the straw, then we probobly wouldnt have heard about it, thats the society we live in.
<div class="quote_poster">AKIRA Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">anyway this study is sort of pointless because the difference in numbers arent great enough to say that there is a serious issue. But if it was the opposite statistical evidence, that white players were getting the short end of the straw, then we probobly wouldnt have heard about it, thats the society we live in.</div> You say it's pointless, and yet the NBA is obviously very sensitive to it. You may think the results are obvious, but the league vehemently denies it. I don't think the results are surprising either, but that doesn't make it irrelevant. If a coach knows that there is a statistical trend, however slight, that white refs are more willing to call fouls on black players than white players, then that could impact who he decides to play. I mean, if he's trying to pick between a black player and a white player (who are otherwise basically identical) as his 8th man in the rotation, wouldn't it make sense to play the white one if the officiating crew was all-white? The results of this study certainly has real implications.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Are you suggesting that white officiating crews tend to referee games with a higher pace than black officiating crews, or with players of higher talent than black officials, or with more physical playing styles than black officials, etc.? Because that's very unlikely, particularly over a 13-year span. All those factors are determined by the teams involved. And, for any given matchup, the "race" of the officiating crew is almost perfectly random. To recap, the study finds that black players get called for fouls at a (very)slighty higher rate (more often, per minute) the more "white" an officiating crew is. Additionally, they also find that white players get caleld for at fouls at a slightly higher rate the more "black" an officiating crew is, though the difference isn't as much. Since we can assume that officiating crews are more or less randomly chosen, this can't be attributed to correlations between the race of the officiating crew and the profile of the teams they officiate for (play at a fast pace, play physically, etc.).</div> No, what I'm saying is they made a leap of faith with their conclusion. The results are clear (although they can't tell which officials made which calls), I'm not disputing that. But, I don't see how you can categorize that as racial bias or discrimination in the NBA. There are just so many variables that are unaccounted for in every single game (what I listed earlier), that could explain the difference in calls. Every single game is so unique that I have a hard time believing that claim.
If that's the case, 7'6 Asian players get absolutley NO CALLS. Yao hasn't got a call the whole playoffs. It's a conspiracy! Anywayz, it's funny how the NBA denounces anything race related tho. Obcourse there gonna put out a counter-study discreding this one.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No, what I'm saying is they made a leap of faith with their conclusion. The results are clear (although they can't tell which officials made which calls), I'm not disputing that. But, I don't see how you can categorize that as racial bias or discrimination in the NBA. There are just so many variables that are unaccounted for in every single game (what I listed earlier), that could explain the difference in calls. Every single game is so unique that I have a hard time believing that claim.</div> You could say that if we were just talking about a sample of a few games. But they looked at games over a 13-year period. If what you say is true, and it can be attributed to other factors, there would have been no observed pattern based on race of the officials over that period. Or, at the least, the chances of that happening would be VERY unlikely. When they say that their results are "statistically significant", that's what they mean. BTW, they do "control" for all sorts of factors in the study. They use different models that account for these factors, and they reach the same conclusions each time. Read pages 7-9 in the paper, and also take a look at Table 7 in the appendix. Start at the paragraph that begins "The richness of our data allows us to extend this analysis to control for various player, team, referee, and game specific characteristics ..." <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Anywayz, it's funny how the NBA denounces anything race related tho. Obcourse there gonna put out a counter-study discreding this one.</div> Yep, and they won't dare actually make their results public.
I haven't had time to read the entire study, but I don't like the number manipulation these students did. Often times the problem with stats are people come in with a preconceived theory, and then manipulate the stats to support their theory. Without reading it I would discredit the paper for these reasons. 1) They don't have the adequate data to start with. Using boxscores with the names of officials proves nothing because you don't know which official made which call. 2) They are assuming a crew with all white officials versus a crew with a mixture of officials would call the same game differently. 3) The league is a majority of black players, and most of the players defending the post are black players. Of course they're going to get called for more calls, then a perimeter player. 4) Let's assume black players are being whistled more for fouls. But on the opposite side, aren't the players being fouled also a majority of the also black players?
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I haven't had time to read the entire study, but I don't like the number manipulation these students did. Often times the problem with stats are people come in with a preconceived theory, and then manipulate the stats to support their theory. Without reading it I would discredit the paper for these reasons. 1) They don't have the adequate data to start with. Using boxscores with the names of officials proves nothing because you don't know which official made which call.</div> That unknown is significant if you look at a small sample. They didn't. If there's a noticeable pattern, over a huge sample, that crews with more white officials call fouls differently on white/black players than crews with less white officials, then that says something. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2) They are assuming a crew with all white officials versus a crew with a mixture of officials would call the same game differently. </div> They aren't assuming it. That's what the data shows. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">3) The league is a majority of black players, and most of the players defending the post are black players. Of course they're going to get called for more calls, then a perimeter player. 4) Let's assume black players are being whistled more for fouls. But on the opposite side, aren't the players being fouled also a majority of the also black players?</div> This is irrelevant to their findings. Actually, black players get called for less fouls per minute than white players. What they are looking at is how the rate of fouls called changes with the racial makeup of the officiating crew. Actually, they look at lots of other things as well. It also impacts turnovers and points scored (I guess as a secondary effect of the differences in fouled called). Overall, they are argue that the impact on scoring margin is significant. Their findings should be seriously considered, and not dismissed out of hand.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What a waste of time and research.</div> Took the words right out of my mouth.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That unknown is significant if you look at a small sample. They didn't. If there's a noticeable pattern, over a huge sample, that crews with more white officials call fouls differently on white/black players than crews with less white officials, then that says something. </div> How can you come to this conclusion when you don't know who called what? There's a lot of variables to consider. Who was the head official in the game? Who was the baseline official? Who was the official on the perimeter? It's not a conclusive study unless you incorporate all those important details. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> They aren't assuming it. That's what the data shows.</div> No it's an assumption, because every game is an independent case. You don't have the same test sample to evaluate one group of officials versus another. For example, if two physical teams the Pistons and Heat play each other, and it's officiated by an all white crew, their average foul calls in that game should go up because those two teams foul and play physical. How can you conclude an officiating crew made up of white and black or all black would officiate it any differently? <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> This is irrelevant to their findings. Actually, black players get called for less fouls per minute than white players. What they are looking at is how the rate of fouls called changes with the racial makeup of the officiating crew. Actually, they look at lots of other things as well. It also impacts turnovers and points scored (I guess as a secondary effect of the differences in fouled called). Overall, they are argue that the impact on scoring margin is significant. Their findings should be seriously considered, and not dismissed out of hand.</div> Why would it be irrelevent to their findings? If one group is in an area of the court where more fouls are prevelant, than of course their going to be called for more fouls during the course of a game. If most fouls are called in the paint, and most players in the paint are black, it's rational those players are going to get whistled more regardless of who's officiating. The points scored and turnovers is an interesting study, and they should've presented it as such, instead of trying to make it a racial issue.