In my recent post about the worst QB of All-Time the auther or the article used a formula from The Hidden Game of Football, by Carroll, Palmer, and Thorn. The formula is the best I've ever seen in evaluating QB's. Here's a fantastic article from 1995 by Greg Thomas where he determines the greatest NFL QB's of All-Time. He also uses the formula from The Hidden Game of Football, by Carroll, Palmer, and Thorn. The kicker in his article is the fact that he equalizes the 12 game seasons vs. the 16 game seasons. It's a great article for stat nuts like myself. Here's what Thomas came up with. RANK PASSER ERA NEWS* AVG* DIFF ATT* EXTRA YDS* 1 SAMMY BAUGH 1937-52 4.88 2.88 2.00 4283 8566 2 SID LUCKMAN 1939-50 5.91 2.98 2.93 2549 7469 3 FRAN TARKENTON 1961-78 5.97 4.98 0.99 7309 7236 4 JOE MONTANA 1979-94 6.86 5.62 1.24 5687 7052 5 JOHNNY UNITAS 1956-73 6.14 5.09 1.05 6215 6526 6 DAN MARINO 1983-95 6.64 5.67 0.97 6561 6364 7 NORM VAN BROCKLIN 1949-60 5.99 4.40 1.59 3860 6137 8 KEN ANDERSON 1971-83 6.22 5.02 1.20 5019 6023 9 ROGER STAUBACH 1969-79 6.52 4.72 1.80 3257 5863 10 DAN FOUTS 1973-87 6.22 5.28 0.94 6042 5679 11 STEVE YOUNG 1985-95 7.35 5.65 1.70 2881 4898 *--PROJECTED TO 16-GAME SEASONS In my opinion this list is more acurate than anything I've ever seen. The threads on this site on this topic have been a complete joke in my opinion. It's way I never bother to post in them. For Greg Thomas' complete article click the lick below. It's a great read for stat guys. http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/f...fm?topic=marino
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'>In my recent post about the worst QB of All-Time the auther or the article used a formula from The Hidden Game of Football, by Carroll, Palmer, and Thorn. The formula is the best I've ever seen in evaluating QB's. Here's a fantastic article from 1995 by Greg Thomas where he determines the greatest NFL QB's of All-Time. He also uses the formula from The Hidden Game of Football, by Carroll, Palmer, and Thorn. The kicker in his article is the fact that he equalizes the 12 game seasons vs. the 16 game seasons. It's a great article for stat nuts like myself. Here's what Thomas came up with. RANK PASSER ERA NEWS* AVG* DIFF ATT* EXTRA YDS* 1 SAMMY BAUGH 1937-52 4.88 2.88 2.00 4283 8566 2 SID LUCKMAN 1939-50 5.91 2.98 2.93 2549 7469 3 FRAN TARKENTON 1961-78 5.97 4.98 0.99 7309 7236 4 JOE MONTANA 1979-94 6.86 5.62 1.24 5687 7052 5 JOHNNY UNITAS 1956-73 6.14 5.09 1.05 6215 6526 6 DAN MARINO 1983-95 6.64 5.67 0.97 6561 6364 7 NORM VAN BROCKLIN 1949-60 5.99 4.40 1.59 3860 6137 8 KEN ANDERSON 1971-83 6.22 5.02 1.20 5019 6023 9 ROGER STAUBACH 1969-79 6.52 4.72 1.80 3257 5863 10 DAN FOUTS 1973-87 6.22 5.28 0.94 6042 5679 11 STEVE YOUNG 1985-95 7.35 5.65 1.70 2881 4898 *--PROJECTED TO 16-GAME SEASONS In my opinion this list is more acurate than anything I've ever seen. The threads on this site on this topic have been a complete joke in my opinion. It's way I never bother to post in them. For Greg Thomas' complete article click the lick below. It's a great read for stat guys. http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/f...fm?topic=marino</div> Got to love analyzation of entire player by one stat relative to league. Also, if anything it goes to show more parity in league now that before 1980 and that is why those QBs had so much better avg relative to era. So dumb to found logic this way.
The statistics and formulas are interesting, but it's hard to determine "best ever" by stats alone. You can make an argument for any number of QB's being the "best ever" depending on what your criteria is. ********* If you base it on winning championships, the best QB would be Montana or Bradshaw. If you base it on passing records, it would be Marino (and potentially one day Manning). If you base it on rating/efficiency, it would be Steve Young. If you base it on a little of all of these, it would be John Elway. If you base it on what most QBs (and I) think, it would be Johnny Unitas. ********** I love stats as much as you do, Zack, but I don't think statistics will ever prevail in a "best ever" argument.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'>The statistics and formulas are interesting, but it's hard to determine "best ever" by stats alone. You can make an argument for any number of QB's being the "best ever" depending on what your criteria is. ********* If you base it on winning championships, the best QB would be Montana or Bradshaw. If you base it on passing records, it would be Marino (and potentially one day Manning). If you base it on rating/efficiency, it would be Steve Young. If you base it on a little of all of these, it would be John Elway. If you base it on what most QBs (and I) think, it would be Johnny Unitas. ********** I love stats as much as you do, Zack, but I don't think statistics will ever prevail in a "best ever" argument.</div> My thread title is likely a bit misleading. Thomas calls his list the "best positive-passers in NFL history", I myself think it's the best measuring stick I've seen. Your post is a good example of the mistakes younger fans make when mentioning the NFL All-Time greats, you brought up <u>one</u> QB from the first 50 years of the NFL and five from the last35 years. I'll give you a little credit most people on this site think the NFL has only been around 25 years! :stupid:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'll give you a little credit most people on this site think the NFL has only been around 25 years!</div> I'm not all that young, but the bulk of my NFL experience is in the modern era. I know quite a bit about guys like Fran Tarkenton and Bart Starr and Otto Graham, but the NFL was a lot different back then. People are very focused on statistics and records and those are all owned by modern QBs. My point, even though I reference all modern QBs, is that you can pick any criteria, focus on it, and make a case for probably a dozen guys.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'll give you a little credit most people on this site think the NFL has only been around 25 years! :stupid:</div> I think that is nothing more than an assumption - the fact is, the game today is a much different game than it was even 30 years ago, not to mention the era when the Munci Flyers were taking the field. Talking about the greatest QB in football is often discussed under the guidelines of the modern game. Do fans (on this board and fans in general) do disservice to the generation before our memory? Sure...but there is some legitimacy to framing the discussion within the confines of the modern game.
The Best QB of all-time was Joe Montana!No Doubt! After that it goes...... 1.Joe Montana 2.Dan Marino 3.Steve Young 4.Johnny Unitas 5.John Elway
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaPackersGb)</div><div class='quotemain'>Who is SAMMY BAUGH? Never heard of the guy.</div> Ever since the first paid football player took the field back in 1892, a single individual has come along every once in a while who has made contributions to the game that were so great that, after he departed from the scene, the sport would forever be a better, but a different, game. Such a history-maker was Sammy Baugh, the passer deluxe of the Washington Redskins for 16 seasons and a charter member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Baugh was the catalyst that changed the game. As fellow Hall-of-Famer Sid Luckman and himself one of Baugh's greatest competitors during their playing days insists: "Sammy Baugh was the best. Nobody is ever going to equal him. Not anybody." From the first time he stepped onto an NFL field, Baugh was conceded to be the best passer in NFL history. He could throw long, short, or in-between with unerring accuracy. A famous story -- probably apocryphal -- has the Redskins coach drawing up a play on a blackboard. "When the receiver gets to this point," he tells Baugh, "you hit him in the eye with a pass." To which Sam asks: "Which eye?" http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/f...m?topic=baugh-s
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaPackersGb)</div><div class='quotemain'>Who is SAMMY BAUGH? Never heard of the guy.</div> That's said...Sammy was the first QB to actually be a good passer. West Texas bred as well as he was raised in Sweetwater, TX. Sweetwater is rich with football heritage in Texas and has one of the nicest high school stadiums. Probably my favorite stadium that I ever played in. Sweetwater was my high school's biggest rival...hated the guys...but respected the tradition. Baugh's son is actually head coach at Snyder High School which is also a small Texas town, but is, of course, football crazy. The irony here is that Sweetwater and Snyder are actually bitter rivals.
I am not surprised to see Sammy Baugh & Sid Luckman at the top. All that matters is Marino is ahead of "Mr Ed" I mean Elway. LOL?? Though, Stats are for baseball.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1.Joe Montana 2.Dan Marino 3.Steve Young 4.Johnny Unitas 5.John Elway</div> Hah hah! Steve Young at #3... That's a good one. Talk about the most overrated QB of all time...
I would have to say that Dan Marino is by far one of the best if the THE best Quarterback that has ever played the game of football. Just look at the records he set.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aaronklemme)</div><div class='quotemain'>I would have to say that Dan Marino is by far one of the best if the THE best Quarterback that has ever played the game of football. Just look at the records he set.</div> I would say Marino's certainly in the top 10, but he was no Sammy Baugh.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1.Joe Montana 2.Dan Marino 3.Steve Young 4.Johnny Unitas 5.John Elway</div> Hah hah! Steve Young at #3... That's a good one. Talk about the most overrated QB of all time...</div> What?! Not even!! Young was great. He was the best of the 90's over Elway, Favre, and Aikman. As far as most overrated QB of all time...that has to go to Joe Namath.
It is best to qualify your best-ever. I think stats can be a valuable tool, but never the only tool. Personally, I think I can give a valuable analysis of any player going back to the mid-to-late-70s. I can see stats, highlight films, and interviews regarding the value of a Sammy Baugh or a Gale Sayers, but ultimately my value is usually by really watching the players play. I don't have that luxury with players more than 30 years ago, so I try to qualify my "greatest" statements that way. Same goes for baseball. There are four on this list that I never saw throw a pass other than highlight films. From what I can tell, these four are among the greats. Where they fit in, I don't know. What I can tell you in that rankings aside, the top 10 are certainly among the best too. Picking a QB to put on my team, I'm not sure Steve Young would be my #11 choice, mainly due to inconsistency, but I will say that the guy did scare me on some Sundays, which is an important factor in determining good QBs. One issue I have with this career statistical calculation is that it is going to reward players that went out early - perhaps prematurely, but certainly more on top of their game. A player like Jim Brown would come out looking very good. Players who played with poor stats at the end of their careers, like Brett Favre or Troy Aikman would be diminished. It would be interesting to take the prime 5 or 7 years of each player and do this same analysis.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1.Joe Montana 2.Dan Marino 3.Steve Young 4.Johnny Unitas 5.John Elway</div> Hah hah! Steve Young at #3... That's a good one. Talk about the most overrated QB of all time...</div> What?! Not even!! Young was great. He was the best of the 90's over Elway, Favre, and Aikman. As far as most overrated QB of all time...that has to go to Joe Namath.</div> I'll have to agree with that. Namath certainly might win that prize. The rest I'll have to disagree with. BTW, welcome to the forum to you and everyone else new in this thread.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>So, is Losman the most underrated? ROFL!!</div> I sure hope this underhand lob wasn't pitched to me!!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'> Hah hah! Steve Young at #3... That's a good one. Talk about the most overrated QB of all time...</div> What?! Not even!! Young was great. He was the best of the 90's over Elway, Favre, and Aikman. As far as most overrated QB of all time...that has to go to Joe Namath.</div> I'll have to agree with that. Namath certainly might win that prize. The rest I'll have to disagree with. BTW, welcome to the forum to you and everyone else new in this thread.</div> Let me elaborate a little. I do not believe Young is the 3rd best QB of all time by any means, but he is definitely one of the greats. I put him in the top 15 which is right where I put Aikman. I do think Young was better than Aikman, Favre, and Elway in the 90's. However, Elway and Favre pass over him because of their production and success in other decades. Young's career as a starter really wasn't all that long. Now as far as best ever...Johnny Unitas gets my vote. He was so consistent season after season up until his body started to wear down on him. Had he been healthy in Super Bowl III then Joe Namath would've never sniffed the Hall of Fame.
