The Conundrum

[Rastapopoulos]

1. If we don't re-sign Norman Powell, we'll look even worse than last year, and there's a strong possibility Dame could push for a trade.
2. If we don't trade CJ (the theory goes), Norm won't want to stay (because he doesn't like playing SF)
3. But if we do trade CJ, chances are we won't get somebody who we regard as equivalent, and there's a strong possibility Dame could push for a trade.

ALSO:
4. If we do re-sign Norm, we're just the same as last year, when Dame made it clear that that wasn't good enough. Except we've almost certainly overpaid for somebody who honestly didn't move the needle much.

Solution? Trade CJ for somebody AWESOME!
Is that at all likely to happen? No. But a lot hangs on it.

I think a plausible (only mildly pessimistic) scenario is:

We retain Norm by throwing money at him (closer to $30M per year than $20M)
Olshey refuses (rightly) to trade CJ for the shit offers we get for him
Dame comes in at the start of the season like a good soldier
Chauncey turns out not to be any better than Stotts, and perhaps a bit worse (because - surprise! Stotts actually did a very good job with the roster he was given)
Dame starts to get restless...

 

[Natebishop3]

The fact that they haven't fired Neil really makes it hard to have any faith in this ownership group at all.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

I know so many people want NeO fired and he has made a few bad moves but I think they wanted to get rid of Stotts who I believe had more influence into how badly some of the signing turned into cause he had NO idea how to use them.

D. Jones and Giles and my brain fails me atm but I am sure there is a couple more I missed so that influences how we see the job Neo has done. Now we can see how much NeO was at fault the problem is we have the Dame situation and we have little room for error so it is a gamble.

 

[Natebishop3]

I know so many people want NeO fired and he has made a few bad moves but I think they wanted to get rid of Stotts who I believe had more influence into how badly some of the signing turned into cause he had NO idea how to use them.

D. Jones and Giles and my brain fails me atm but I am sure there is a couple more I missed so that influences how we see the job Neo has done. Now we can see how much NeO was at fault the problem is we have the Dame situation and we have little room for error so it is a gamble.

Neil hasn't made "a few" bad moves. Neil has made a lot of bad moves. Like...... so many that you need to count them on both hands and possibly your feet as well.

 

[e_blazer]

I think you're putting way too much importance on CJ being dealt in order for Norm to re-sign. The Blazers will pay him above the going rate and for more years than he's likely to get on the open market. Also, Olshey will certainly be in communications with Norm and his agent and will let him know what the scoop is on trading CJ long before any deal is actually reported.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

If I am being honest there are only a couple times that scream NeO screwed up royally

1) Summer where he signed Evan Turner -- that FA period was a giant cluster BEEP
2) Trading up for Collins -- not cause he turned out to be fragile but cause Collins was more of a 18 to 25 pick in reality and he traded 2 1st's ( forget who they turned out to be or could have been ) you only trade up IF your 90% sure and that player has NO red flags and Collins did have a minor history of getting nicked up.
3) Caleb Swanigan -- Even though if i recall he was a projected late 1st to early 2nd round guy I do believe more ready / high upside prospects were still on the board.
4) One more thing but not as sure about this -- this Front office / franchise tends to "promise" draft picks too much -- I mean how many players has this team missed out on cause THEY promised to take them --- Chris Paul ( not on Neo's watch ) but you would have thought that would have taught this franchise something -- but i think you get the point

 

[Graduate32]

I think at the very least a Dame-CJ-Norm-RoCo-Nurk lineup with an improved bench is, in fact, a pretty good regular season team. With the Clippers injuries and it taking Murray a bit of time to get back in Denver, I can see that roster as top-4 in the West come mid-year/trade deadline.

If that's the case, I don't think you'll see a restive Dame until at least the off season. Re-signing Norm is crucial regardless of whether CJ can be moved this summer because it buys the team more time. Every team's last image of CJ was underwhelming against the Nuggets. If the Sixers (or their fans) are talking as if they can rehabilitate Simmons value in the early season, than couldn't the same be said for CJ? If CJ comes out like he did to start last year, the Blazers will certainly have greater options.

 

[wizenheimer]

Olshey refuses (rightly) to trade CJ for the shit offers we get for him
.

this may be the biggest disconnect in Blazer Nation. A whole bunch of people believing CJ is all-star level but at the same time convinced Portland only gets 'shit' offers for that all-star level SG. That gap is far too wide and people should either adjust their gauge of CJ or adjust their gauge of 'shit offers'. Maybe some of both

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If I am being honest there are only a couple times that scream NeO screwed up royally

1) Summer where he signed Evan Turner -- that FA period was a giant cluster BEEP
2) Trading up for Collins -- not cause he turned out to be fragile but cause Collins was more of a 18 to 25 pick in reality and he traded 2 1st's ( forget who they turned out to be or could have been ) you only trade up IF your 90% sure and that player has NO red flags and Collins did have a minor history of getting nicked up.
3) Caleb Swanigan -- Even though if i recall he was a projected late 1st to early 2nd round guy I do believe more ready / high upside prospects were still on the board.
4) One more thing but not as sure about this -- this Front office / franchise tends to "promise" draft picks too much -- I mean how many players has this team missed out on cause THEY promised to take them --- Chris Paul ( not on Neo's watch ) but you would have thought that would have taught this franchise something -- but i think you get the point

There's those and others that all should be looked at in total

• FRP/Barton for Afflalo
• Inability to sign/trade for a star
• Refuses to deal CJ
• Every press conference he ever gives
• No creativity in his trade offers
• Ezeli/Nicholson/Varejao dead money
• Insisted on keeping Stotts way too long
• Lost Aldridge for nothing

I don't think anyone needs to spell out what that track record should result in.

 

[Ed O]

1. If we don't re-sign Norman Powell, we'll look even worse than last year, and there's a strong possibility Dame could push for a trade.
2. If we don't trade CJ (the theory goes), Norm won't want to stay (because he doesn't like playing SF)
3. But if we do trade CJ, chances are we won't get somebody who we regard as equivalent, and there's a strong possibility Dame could push for a trade.

ALSO:
4. If we do re-sign Norm, we're just the same as last year, when Dame made it clear that that wasn't good enough. Except we've almost certainly overpaid for somebody who honestly didn't move the needle much.

Solution? Trade CJ for somebody AWESOME!
Is that at all likely to happen? No. But a lot hangs on it.

I agree. I don't blame Dame for wanting to be on a better team, but they been TRYING to get better. It just hasn't worked. I don't see how Dame applying pressure would help the team suddenly make better decisions.

It seems the only options are, as you say, to make a strong CJ trade, or to trade Dame before he flat-out demands it.

A third way would be to get value for Nurk and play small ball, but I don't know who we'd be able to add that would be more impactful than a healthy Nurkic.

Personally, I have come to think trading Dame makes more sense than treading water for another year and having him want to leave. Getting Simmons + Thybulle + pieces (Maxey? Draft picks?) would keep Portland competitive and we probably wouldn't have to overspend on Norm.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

- Afflalo trade was only bad really cause Wes got hurt -- he was not intended to be a start he was intended to be a 6th man so that was not really his fault
- S / T are not as easy as WE the fans think there are so again NOT really fair
- This one about CJ I will concede could be seen as a negative cause at some point he should have seen this combo was not going to work thinking last 2 offseasons
- Press Conf -- really -- whatever
- Are you in on these meeting where trades are made / talked about so NONE of us have ANY clue on that one
- Dead money -- Hmm some is ok -- Anderson V one i think was ok but Ezeli and Nicholson I can agree
- Stotts -- Ok this one i can agree with
- LA -- not sure where to stand on that one but i can see your point

 

[blazerkor]

I think at the very least a Dame-CJ-Norm-RoCo-Nurk lineup with an improved bench is, in fact, a pretty good regular season team. With the Clippers injuries and it taking Murray a bit of time to get back in Denver, I can see that roster as top-4 in the West come mid-year/trade deadline.

If that's the case, I don't think you'll see a restive Dame until at least the off season. Re-signing Norm is crucial regardless of whether CJ can be moved this summer because it buys the team more time. Every team's last image of CJ was underwhelming against the Nuggets. If the Sixers (or their fans) are talking as if they can rehabilitate Simmons value in the early season, than couldn't the same be said for CJ? If CJ comes out like he did to start last year, the Blazers will certainly have greater options.

I think Dame will be paying close attention to how we perform against the top flight teams that are healthy over the first two months of the season. If we're winning against those teams he'll wait until next off season to see. If we're losing to all of the good healthy teams like we were last year, Dame will demand a trade even if we've padded our record by beating up on bad and injured teams. If we "run it back" after Dame said publicly that wasn't good enough, he will be hyper critical of what this team is showing. Just my take.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Personally, I have come to think trading Dame makes more sense than treading water for another year and having him want to leave. Getting Simmons + Thybulle + pieces (Maxey? Draft picks?) would keep Portland competitive and we probably wouldn't have to overspend on Norm.

Another convert!

 

[Ripcity4life77]

Yes -- let's trade the best player this team has had since Clyde so we can go back into the lotto prolly for 3 to 5 years -- great idea -- NO

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yes -- let's trade the best player this team has had since Clyde so we can go back into the lotto prolly for 3 to 5 years -- great idea -- NO

I'm confused - are you saying "no" or are you quoting Neil Olshey?

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree. I don't blame Dame for wanting to be on a better team, but they been TRYING to get better. It just hasn't worked. I don't see how Dame applying pressure would help the team suddenly make better decisions.

It seems the only options are, as you say, to make a strong CJ trade, or to trade Dame before he flat-out demands it.

A third way would be to get value for Nurk and play small ball, but I don't know who we'd be able to add that would be more impactful than a healthy Nurkic.

Personally, I have come to think trading Dame makes more sense than treading water for another year and having him want to leave. Getting Simmons + Thybulle + pieces (Maxey? Draft picks?) would keep Portland competitive and we probably wouldn't have to overspend on Norm.

Yup. I think Neil has backed us into a corner and I don't think there's a simple or logical way to build a contender.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yes -- let's trade the best player this team has had since Clyde so we can go back into the lotto prolly for 3 to 5 years -- great idea -- NO

So your answer is to wait until Dame gets pissed and demands a trade? And what happens then? We start that lotto clock a year or two later?

 

[Ripcity4life77]

Fact your confused by the fact I say -- NO at the end of that statement should have been a clue but whatever -- LOL

 

[Ripcity4life77]

Also NateB ---

I never said NEVER on trading Dame but you DO NOT pull the trigger on that deal UNTIL he comes out and says -- I would like to be traded -- until that point happens you do EVERYTHING you can to try and keep his ASS in a Blazers uni -- PLAIN AND SIMPLE

 

[PtldPlatypus]

- S / T are not as easy as WE the fans think there are so again NOT really fair

I didn't mean "acquire via a sign-and-trade deal". I meant "acquire a star either by trading for or signing". It's absolutely a fair criticism.

 

[blazerkor]

Yup. I think Neil has backed us into a corner and I don't think there's a simple or logical way to build a contender.

You don't think that CJ and every draft asset we have (meaning our first rounders in 2022, 24, 26 and 28 along with pick swaps for the other years) would net us a guy like Simmons? I just don't think we're willing to do what it takes. Maybe you think that Simmons doesn't make us a contender but if he steps up his game in any meaningful way he's a top ten player in the league.

Two top ten player supported by players at the level of Norm, RoCo and Nurk... with guys who have the potential of Ant, Nas and DJJ look like they could contend in the next two years to me... especially with the flexibility of trading Nurk, Ant, Nas and DJJ as player who still aren't in their prime and are on reasonable or expiring contracts.

 

[Graduate32]

You don't think that CJ and every draft asset we have (meaning our first rounders in 2022, 24, 26 and 28 along with pick swaps for the other years) would net us a guy like Simmons? I just don't think we're willing to do what it takes. Maybe you think that Simmons doesn't make us a contender but if he steps up his game in any meaningful way he's a top ten player in the league.

I actually don't... at least right now (perhaps that changes much later in the summer).

 

[BBert]

- Afflalo trade was only bad really cause Wes got hurt -- he was not intended to be a start he was intended to be a 6th man so that was not really his fault

Yes.

And then Afflalo got hurt.

 

[Ed O]

Yes -- let's trade the best player this team has had since Clyde so we can go back into the lotto prolly for 3 to 5 years -- great idea -- NO

As opposed to... what?

First round exits every year while having no draft picks? That's where we have been recently.

Dame won't be as valuable in a year. Or three. Or whenever the "never trade Dame" people would finally be willing to get value for him.

If we get two starting-level guys and draft picks, we still should be able to make the playoffs. We won't challenge for home court advantage, but if we get younger and can have hope to actually get better, I'm cool with it.

 

[blazedanugz]

As opposed to... what?

First round exits every year while having no draft picks? That's where we have been recently.

Dame won't be as valuable in a year. Or three. Or whenever the "never trade Dame" people would finally be willing to get value for him.

If we get two starting-level guys and draft picks, we still should be able to make the playoffs. We won't challenge for home court advantage, but if we get younger and can have hope to actually get better, I'm cool with it.

We don’t challenge for home court now

 

[Natebishop3]

Or whenever the "never trade Dame" people would finally be willing to get value for him.

Those people will never come around. There were STILL people pissed that we let Oden go when he was clearly done.

 

[Hoopguru]

The fact that they haven't fired Neil really makes it hard to have any faith in this ownership group at all.

And thats where it all starts, right down to keeping Dame happy.

 

[wizenheimer]

And thats where it all starts, right down to keeping Dame happy.

I actually think that's what is making Dame threaten a trade demand

Dame went over Olshey's head 3 years ago and talked directly to Paul Allen about the direction of the team. He would not have done that if he trusted or believed Olshey. I don't think Dame's opinion of Olshey has become better from that point, only worse

what's going on right now, IMO, is that Dame recognizes that the Blazers have absentee owners that will not hold Olshey accountable. Olshey gets a pass from Seattle as long as the revenue rolls in. That's not good enough for Dame and that's why he's made the waves he has made

 

[Hoopguru]

I actually think that's what is making Dame threaten a trade demand

Dame went over Olshey's head 3 years ago and talked directly to Paul Allen about the direction of the team. He would not have done that if he trusted or believed Olshey. I don't think Dame's opinion of Olshey has become better from that point, only worse

what's going on right now, IMO, is that Dame recognizes that the Blazers have absentee owners that will not hold Olshey accountable. Olshey gets a pass from Seattle as long as the revenue rolls in. That's not good enough for Dame and that's why he's made the waves he has made

agree 100%.
Other agents know it as well.

 

[Paine Tablet]

I actually think that's what is making Dame threaten a trade demand

Dame went over Olshey's head 3 years ago and talked directly to Paul Allen about the direction of the team. He would not have done that if he trusted or believed Olshey. I don't think Dame's opinion of Olshey has become better from that point, only worse

what's going on right now, IMO, is that Dame recognizes that the Blazers have absentee owners that will not hold Olshey accountable. Olshey gets a pass from Seattle as long as the revenue rolls in. That's not good enough for Dame and that's why he's made the waves he has made

Which brings me to wonder how much responsibility Dame bears for the situation. Do you know what going over the head of Olshey accomplished from the perspective of Damian? Can you quantify it? If it's somehow a quantifiable variable, is he not then responsible for it?