The Conundrum

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Aug 2, 2021.

  1. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Gimmick-hungry yob

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    1. If we don't re-sign Norman Powell, we'll look even worse than last year, and there's a strong possibility Dame could push for a trade.
    2. If we don't trade CJ (the theory goes), Norm won't want to stay (because he doesn't like playing SF)
    3. But if we do trade CJ, chances are we won't get somebody who we regard as equivalent, and there's a strong possibility Dame could push for a trade.

    ALSO:
    4. If we do re-sign Norm, we're just the same as last year, when Dame made it clear that that wasn't good enough. Except we've almost certainly overpaid for somebody who honestly didn't move the needle much.

    Solution? Trade CJ for somebody AWESOME!
    Is that at all likely to happen? No. But a lot hangs on it.

    I think a plausible (only mildly pessimistic) scenario is:

    We retain Norm by throwing money at him (closer to $30M per year than $20M)
    Olshey refuses (rightly) to trade CJ for the shit offers we get for him
    Dame comes in at the start of the season like a good soldier
    Chauncey turns out not to be any better than Stotts, and perhaps a bit worse (because - surprise! Stotts actually did a very good job with the roster he was given)
    Dame starts to get restless...
     
  2. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    The fact that they haven't fired Neil really makes it hard to have any faith in this ownership group at all.
     
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  3. Ripcity4life77

    Ripcity4life77 Well-Known Member

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    I know so many people want NeO fired and he has made a few bad moves but I think they wanted to get rid of Stotts who I believe had more influence into how badly some of the signing turned into cause he had NO idea how to use them.

    D. Jones and Giles and my brain fails me atm but I am sure there is a couple more I missed so that influences how we see the job Neo has done. Now we can see how much NeO was at fault the problem is we have the Dame situation and we have little room for error so it is a gamble.
     
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  4. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Neil hasn't made "a few" bad moves. Neil has made a lot of bad moves. Like...... so many that you need to count them on both hands and possibly your feet as well.
     
  5. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I think you're putting way too much importance on CJ being dealt in order for Norm to re-sign. The Blazers will pay him above the going rate and for more years than he's likely to get on the open market. Also, Olshey will certainly be in communications with Norm and his agent and will let him know what the scoop is on trading CJ long before any deal is actually reported.
     
  6. Ripcity4life77

    Ripcity4life77 Well-Known Member

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    If I am being honest there are only a couple times that scream NeO screwed up royally

    1) Summer where he signed Evan Turner -- that FA period was a giant cluster BEEP
    2) Trading up for Collins -- not cause he turned out to be fragile but cause Collins was more of a 18 to 25 pick in reality and he traded 2 1st's ( forget who they turned out to be or could have been ) you only trade up IF your 90% sure and that player has NO red flags and Collins did have a minor history of getting nicked up.
    3) Caleb Swanigan -- Even though if i recall he was a projected late 1st to early 2nd round guy I do believe more ready / high upside prospects were still on the board.
    4) One more thing but not as sure about this -- this Front office / franchise tends to "promise" draft picks too much -- I mean how many players has this team missed out on cause THEY promised to take them --- Chris Paul ( not on Neo's watch ) but you would have thought that would have taught this franchise something -- but i think you get the point
     
  7. Graduate32

    Graduate32 Active Member

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    I think at the very least a Dame-CJ-Norm-RoCo-Nurk lineup with an improved bench is, in fact, a pretty good regular season team. With the Clippers injuries and it taking Murray a bit of time to get back in Denver, I can see that roster as top-4 in the West come mid-year/trade deadline.

    If that's the case, I don't think you'll see a restive Dame until at least the off season. Re-signing Norm is crucial regardless of whether CJ can be moved this summer because it buys the team more time. Every team's last image of CJ was underwhelming against the Nuggets. If the Sixers (or their fans) are talking as if they can rehabilitate Simmons value in the early season, than couldn't the same be said for CJ? If CJ comes out like he did to start last year, the Blazers will certainly have greater options.
     
  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    this may be the biggest disconnect in Blazer Nation. A whole bunch of people believing CJ is all-star level but at the same time convinced Portland only gets 'shit' offers for that all-star level SG. That gap is far too wide and people should either adjust their gauge of CJ or adjust their gauge of 'shit offers'. Maybe some of both
     
  9. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    There's those and others that all should be looked at in total
    • FRP/Barton for Afflalo
    • Inability to sign/trade for a star
    • Refuses to deal CJ
    • Every press conference he ever gives
    • No creativity in his trade offers
    • Ezeli/Nicholson/Varejao dead money
    • Insisted on keeping Stotts way too long
    • Lost Aldridge for nothing
    I don't think anyone needs to spell out what that track record should result in.
     
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  10. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I agree. I don't blame Dame for wanting to be on a better team, but they been TRYING to get better. It just hasn't worked. I don't see how Dame applying pressure would help the team suddenly make better decisions.

    It seems the only options are, as you say, to make a strong CJ trade, or to trade Dame before he flat-out demands it.

    A third way would be to get value for Nurk and play small ball, but I don't know who we'd be able to add that would be more impactful than a healthy Nurkic.

    Personally, I have come to think trading Dame makes more sense than treading water for another year and having him want to leave. Getting Simmons + Thybulle + pieces (Maxey? Draft picks?) would keep Portland competitive and we probably wouldn't have to overspend on Norm.
     
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  11. Ripcity4life77

    Ripcity4life77 Well-Known Member

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    - Afflalo trade was only bad really cause Wes got hurt -- he was not intended to be a start he was intended to be a 6th man so that was not really his fault
    - S / T are not as easy as WE the fans think there are so again NOT really fair
    - This one about CJ I will concede could be seen as a negative cause at some point he should have seen this combo was not going to work thinking last 2 offseasons
    - Press Conf -- really -- whatever
    - Are you in on these meeting where trades are made / talked about so NONE of us have ANY clue on that one
    - Dead money -- Hmm some is ok -- Anderson V one i think was ok but Ezeli and Nicholson I can agree
    - Stotts -- Ok this one i can agree with
    - LA -- not sure where to stand on that one but i can see your point
     
  12. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I think Dame will be paying close attention to how we perform against the top flight teams that are healthy over the first two months of the season. If we're winning against those teams he'll wait until next off season to see. If we're losing to all of the good healthy teams like we were last year, Dame will demand a trade even if we've padded our record by beating up on bad and injured teams. If we "run it back" after Dame said publicly that wasn't good enough, he will be hyper critical of what this team is showing. Just my take.
     
  13. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Gimmick-hungry yob

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    Another convert!
     
  14. Ripcity4life77

    Ripcity4life77 Well-Known Member

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    Yes -- let's trade the best player this team has had since Clyde so we can go back into the lotto prolly for 3 to 5 years -- great idea -- NO
     
  15. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Gimmick-hungry yob

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    I'm confused - are you saying "no" or are you quoting Neil Olshey?
     
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  16. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Yup. I think Neil has backed us into a corner and I don't think there's a simple or logical way to build a contender.
     
  17. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    So your answer is to wait until Dame gets pissed and demands a trade? And what happens then? We start that lotto clock a year or two later?
     
  18. Ripcity4life77

    Ripcity4life77 Well-Known Member

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    Fact your confused by the fact I say -- NO at the end of that statement should have been a clue but whatever -- LOL
     
  19. Ripcity4life77

    Ripcity4life77 Well-Known Member

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    Also NateB ---

    I never said NEVER on trading Dame but you DO NOT pull the trigger on that deal UNTIL he comes out and says -- I would like to be traded -- until that point happens you do EVERYTHING you can to try and keep his ASS in a Blazers uni -- PLAIN AND SIMPLE
     
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  20. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I didn't mean "acquire via a sign-and-trade deal". I meant "acquire a star either by trading for or signing". It's absolutely a fair criticism.
     

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