<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">By Sam Amico Without any real news to report, I give you my list of each franchise's greatest player of all time (with others considered in parentheses): Atlanta: Bob Pettit (Lou Hudson, Dominique Wilkins); Boston: tie, Bill Russell and Larry Bird (John Havilicek); Chicago: Michael Jordan. Cleveland: Mark Price (Brad Daugherty). Dallas: Mark Aguirre (Dirk Nowitzki, Rolando Blackman); Denver: Alex English (David Thompson); Detroit: Isiah Thomas; Golden State: Wilt Chamberlain (Rick Barry, Chris Mullin); Houston: Hakeem Olajuwon (Elvin Hayes, Moses Malone); Indiana: Reggie Miller (George McGinnis); L.A. Clippers: Bob McAdoo (Randy Smith); L.A. Lakers: Magic Johnson (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor); Memphis: Pau Gasol (Shareef Abdur-Rahim); Miami: Alonzo Mourning (Glen Rice); Milwaukee: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Oscar Robertson). Minnesota: Kevin Garnett; New Jersey: Julius Erving (Jason Kidd); New Orleans: Larry Johnson (Alonzo Mourning); New York: Patrick Ewing (Walt Frazier, Willis Reed); Orlando: Shaquille O'Neal (Tracy McGrady); Philadelphia: tie, Wilt Chamberlain and Julius Erving (Charles Barkley, Dolph Schayes); Phoenix: Charles Barkley (Walter Davis); Portland: Clyde Drexler (Bill Walton); Sacramento: Oscar Robertson (Jerry Lucas, Tiny Archibald); San Antonio: David Robinson (George Gervin, Tim Duncan); Seattle: Gary Payton (Spencer Haywood, Shawn Kemp); Toronto: Vince Carter; Utah: Karl Malone (John Stockton, Adrian Dantley); Washington: Elvin Hayes (Wes Unseld, Gus Johnson). http://insidehoops.com/amico-090503.shtml </div> I agree with most of it ... but I say that Iverson should be there in one of Phily's Greatest ... and Duncan should be San Antonio's greatest !
Duncan over the Iceman..not yet skippy. Damn Ice was sweet to watch play. Even played with Orlado Woolridge and MJ in Mike's rookie season.
Karl Malone over John Stockton? I've always believed Stock was better. Karl had more PPG but if it wasn't for Stockton, his PPG would of been way down. John also has the NBA's all time steals and assists record. He led the NBA in some stats last season as well. Karl seemed to have dropped his game more than John did in their later years, and I thought John was better when they were good.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tmac15:</div><div class="quote_post">Karl Malone over John Stockton? I've always believed Stock was better. Karl had more PPG but if it wasn't for Stockton, his PPG would of been way down. John also has the NBA's all time steals and assists record. He led the NBA in some stats last season as well. Karl seemed to have dropped his game more than John did in their later years, and I thought John was better when they were good.</div> I would still take Karl, but it seemed like these guys were meant to play together. We compare other players too much here, now teamates? lol. Will it be weird watching a Utah basketball game without John and Karl or what?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tmac15:</div><div class="quote_post">Karl Malone over John Stockton? I've always believed Stock was better. Karl had more PPG but if it wasn't for Stockton, his PPG would of been way down. John also has the NBA's all time steals and assists record. He led the NBA in some stats last season as well. Karl seemed to have dropped his game more than John did in their later years, and I thought John was better when they were good.</div> Malone may not have had as many PPG without Stock, but it also goes the other way; he will not have had as many assists without Malone. Also Malone's stats would still be atleast somewhat close to what they are now because scoring is something that can be done individually, something in which Malone is great at. For assists one has to depend on the team mates to finish, so Stocks stats wouldn't be as high without Malone there to finish. I'm not saying one is better than the other though, becuase I didn't see them in their primes and ESPN classic isn't exactly eager to show their past games. I'm just saying how it will be tougher for one person (Stockton) to do it by himself than for the other person to achieve greatness by himself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">How did George Mikan not make the list? He should be on the Lakers or Minnesota.</div> He will be on a Lakers squad since Minnesota was the Lakers. There are simply greater players than him since the Lakers are so rich in individual (and team) history. Magic, Shaq, Kareem, Elgin, West, Wilt, Worthy, etc. It looked like he only put a max of three honorable mentions and with those players listed above I don't think Mikan makes the cut.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">Malone may not have had as many PPG without Stock, but it also goes the other way; he will not have had as many assists without Malone. Also Malone's stats would still be atleast somewhat close to what they are now because scoring is something that can be done individually, something in which Malone is great at. For assists one has to depend on the team mates to finish, so Stocks stats wouldn't be as high without Malone there to finish. I'm not saying one is better than the other though, becuase I didn't see them in their primes and ESPN classic isn't exactly eager to show their past games. I'm just saying how it will be tougher for one person (Stockton) to do it by himself than for the other person to achieve greatness by himself.</div> Well said sunsfan1357, we can talk all day about who was on who's team and what they did for their career, but darn this comparing game is as old as "Break The Ice"
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Half Man-Half Amazing:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with most of it ... but I say that Iverson should be there in one of Phily's Greatest ... and Duncan should be San Antonio's greatest !</div> did u read the following amico report? he said the only reason AI wasn't there was cos of his earlier indiscretions, but if he continued in the same vein for a few more years he'd become the greatest
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">He will be on a Lakers squad since Minnesota was the Lakers. There are simply greater players than him since the Lakers are so rich in individual (and team) history. Magic, Shaq, Kareem, Elgin, West, Wilt, Worthy, etc. It looked like he only put a max of three honorable mentions and with those players listed above I don't think Mikan makes the cut.</div> oops
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting lost_elephant:</div><div class="quote_post">dont you mean milwaukee?</div> The LA Lakers used to be the Minneapolis Lakers. Did you not ever wonder why a team in LA is called the "Lakers" anyway?
Yes Mikan played on the Lakers when they were in Minnesota. I figured he could be placed on the Minnesota team alongside KG, since they listed out the players by city and not the teams. Either way he should be on the list, he was the first superstar the NBA had.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-MAC:</div><div class="quote_post"> and have Pippen on the Bulls</div> I think the ones in parentheses are players that can actually be considered the best in some people's minds. i.e. Malone (Stockton) There is no one behing Jordan because Jordan is considered as the best Bull to ever play the game by everyone. However some like Utah or the players for the Lakers are debatable.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dexter:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the ones in parentheses are players that can actually be considered the best in some people's minds. i.e. Malone (Stockton) There is no one behing Jordan because Jordan is considered as the best Bull to ever play the game by everyone. However some like Utah or the players for the Lakers are debatable.</div> The best Bull to ever paly the game ?? I think u meant The best human being to ever play the game
I'm pretty sure that he meant best Bull player seeing that it's more truthful and easier to prove than saying human being...
Yes, Stockton over Malone easy. Stockton would have gotten into the lane and made many great passes without Malone. Malone would have shot many more jumpers without Stockton. Malone owes much of his success to him. With New York, Bernard King belongs there with Frazier and Reed. He just never had any help.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Waneko:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, Stockton over Malone easy. Stockton would have gotten into the lane and made many great passes without Malone. Malone would have shot many more jumpers without Stockton. Malone owes much of his success to him.</div> Did you not read my post or something? Though I admitted to not seeing Malone and Stockton in their heyday I do know that Malone in his younger days was one of the more athletic power forwards in the game so he still could've found ways to score. Also it's not like Stockton was exactly the quickest or strongest point guard to be able to get into the lane at will. He needed Malone to set the strong picks in order to get into the lane. Like I said in my previous post, it would've been easier for Malone to succeed by himself than Stockton in all likelihood.
sunsfan I read your post. I just happen to disagree. John Stockton was quick enough to get into the lane when he wanted to (as are many first string point guards). It's what the guy does once he gets into the lane. Stockton had the instincts to pass the ball to the person who had the best chance of scoring. I think that is more influential on how others play with Stockton than vise versa. To put it another way, where Malone caught a lot of those passes, were places you and I could have scored. The picks Malone set when they ran their classic pick & roll weren't any better than a pick that can be set by say, Scott Padgett. It's the fact that Malone can hit that jumper once he catches the ball after setting the pick is what set him apart from the average 4. But then you throw in the bunch of times Malone didn't have to take a jumper, because he got the ball close enough to score an easy layup, you gotta credit the guy who got him the ball there. Without that, Malone would have to had worked a lot harder to score the same PPG. Even if both of their stats are lowered by playing without the other, Stockton's would be effected less and he still has a better chance at the Hall of Fame than Malone would have with a lower PPG average.
Both were all stars, goodness. Both were among the best ever to play their position. One did not make the other, combined they just raised their level together. blah already
