this guy is not a mvp. Scoring champion yes, but not mvp. Seriously if you need to score 50 points to a clippers team who's on a slump, you choke in the final and deciding 4th quarter you shouldn't be considered a mvp. not to mention how he didn't take the leader role and tell his team there's still one quarter to play and to stay focused and not get too far ahead of themselves. He just let his team give up a huge lead. perhaps the rest of the team would have helped if he wasn't too busy to try score 80 points. what was kobe trying to prove. Yes we know you can score at will, but so can other stars. Your team is on a downfall don't let the fans down by putting on a show of who's the best scorer, just get your team the win. Come on and this guy was supposed to be the next jordan? funny he isn't even the next pippen. jordan wouldn't have been trying to score 80 and would have kept his team focused. discuss no having just want to know what ya'll think.
<div class="quote_poster">worldchamps9903 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">this guy is not a mvp. Scoring champion yes, but not mvp. Seriously if you need to score 50 points to a clippers team who's on a slump, you choke in the final and deciding 4th quarter you shouldn't be considered a mvp. not to mention how he didn't take the leader role and tell his team there's still one quarter to play and to stay focused and not get too far ahead of themselves. He just let his team give up a huge lead. perhaps the rest of the team would have helped if he wasn't too busy to try score 80 points. what was kobe trying to prove. Yes we know you can score at will, but so can other stars. Your team is on a downfall don't let the fans down by putting on a show of who's the best scorer, just get your team the win. Come on and this guy was supposed to be the next jordan? funny he isn't even the next pippen. jordan wouldn't have been trying to score 80 and would have kept his team focused. discuss no having just want to know what ya'll think.</div> No you don't. Your mind is already made up about the guy. Basically, you are glad Kobe scored so much and the Lakers lost and this is your way of rubbing it in.
Kobe has like over ten 50 point games already. That's unbelievable. For the record, Lebron ranks second as the player in NBA history to reach something like 8000 pts, 2000 rebounds, 2000 assists the fastest. Took him around 310 games. It took Jordan something like 340. Anyone know how many games it took Kobe? This isn't a knock, I'm just wondering.
The definition of the MVP is the best player on the best team, and the lakers are not even remotely close to being the best team.
I dont understand why people think it has to be the best player on the best team. Thats bullshit. Its the most valuable player to any team. If a team is 60-22 and it'd probably be 50-33 if it didnt have a player, and then another team is 30-42 and it'd be 10-72 if it didnt have their, in my opinion the later is the MVP Kobe deserves to be in the conversation.
<div class="quote_poster">worldchamps9903 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">this guy is not a mvp. Scoring champion yes, but not mvp. Seriously if you need to score 50 points to a clippers team who's on a slump, you choke in the final and deciding 4th quarter you shouldn't be considered a mvp. not to mention how he didn't take the leader role and tell his team there's still one quarter to play and to stay focused and not get too far ahead of themselves. He just let his team give up a huge lead. perhaps the rest of the team would have helped if he wasn't too busy to try score 80 points. what was kobe trying to prove. Yes we know you can score at will, but so can other stars. Your team is on a downfall don't let the fans down by putting on a show of who's the best scorer, just get your team the win. Come on and this guy was supposed to be the next jordan? funny he isn't even the next pippen. jordan wouldn't have been trying to score 80 and would have kept his team focused. discuss no having just want to know what ya'll think.</div> Did you even watch the game at all? When Kobe was scoring, we were up by 17. When he stopped scoring, the lead started to chip away, and before you know it, the Clipper were up. Do I think Kobe will win the MVP? No. Because this team sucks. MVPs are given to the best players on top teams. But Kobe is the best player in the league, and if you can't see that, you're blind. Don't blame Kobe for Lamar Odom sucking. Don't blame Kobe for surrounding himself with a roster full of no talent. And for the record, Kobe was tired near the end of the fourth. He played basically the entire game. Don't come and tell me Kobe is not clutch, Kobe chokes in the final minutes, because Kobe has stepped up in the clutch time and time again in his career
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did you even watch the game at all? When Kobe was scoring, we were up by 17. When he stopped scoring, the lead started to chip away, and before you know it, the Clipper were up. Do I think Kobe will win the MVP? No. Because this team sucks. MVPs are given to the best players on top teams. But Kobe is the best player in the league, and if you can't see that, you're blind. Don't blame Kobe for Lamar Odom sucking. Don't blame Kobe for surrounding himself with a roster full of no talent. And for the record, Kobe was tired near the end of the fourth. He played basically the entire game. Don't come and tell me Kobe is not clutch, Kobe chokes in the final minutes, because Kobe has stepped up in the clutch time and time again in his career</div> its not always the other teammates fault to why a lead chips away like that. trust me being a rockets fan i see 20 point leads get chipped away all the time and its more because of defense not offense. the team as a whole lacks the defense to keep leads. its not always about scoring. and maybe when kobe stopped his scoring like u said and they lost the lead, if he would of contributed the ball more then guys could get hot and be more efficient. but you know the ball is in his hands 95% of the time and he needs to throw more than 1 assist.
<div class="quote_poster">jealous? Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">its not always the other teammates fault to why a lead chips away like that. trust me being a rockets fan i see 20 point leads get chipped away all the time and its more because of defense not offense. the team as a whole lacks the defense to keep leads. its not always about scoring. and maybe when kobe stopped his scoring like u said and they lost the lead, if he would of contributed the ball more then guys could get hot and be more efficient. but you know the ball is in his hands 95% of the time and he needs to throw more than 1 assist.</div> Of course defense is a problem, the Lakers can't play defense to save their lives. They can't rebound to save their lives. Kobe though, was actually play great defense last night. How exactly is the loss Kobe's fault? He shot 17-33 for 50 points, and grabbed 9 rebounds, yet you comment on his assists. Have you watched the Lakers play at all this season? If the ball is not is Kobe's hand 95% of the time, we have no chance. Nobody steps up on this team. As for others possibly contributing and stepping up, that would not have happened. Look at our past couple of games. Nobody steps up. If Kobe goes for 20 or 30, we get blown out. There is no way you can blame the loss against Kobe. Had Kobe only scored 20 or 30 points, you would be saying, well, Kobe is the best player on his team. It's up to him to score 50 for the Lakers to win. The Lakers aren't a good team, so Kobe needs to be a good leader and lead his team to victory.
funny you should say that kobe should be a leader and lead his team to a victory. which he failed to do last night and on other occasions during the season. you said he was tired. if so why didn't he penetrate, draw the double team and throw out a assist? did he no. instead he opted to try to do everything himself. how can we know if his teammates suck, when he doesn't give them a chance to prove otherwise? a true mvp would trust his teammates to deliver. jordan did. duncan does. nash does. also a mvp makes his team better regardless of the surrounding talent. so don't give me the thing that he is a mvp. He won't be a mvp.
<div class="quote_poster">02civic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I dont understand why people think it has to be the best player on the best team. Thats bullshit. Its the most valuable player to any team. If a team is 60-22 and it'd probably be 50-33 if it didnt have a player, and then another team is 30-42 and it'd be 10-72 if it didnt have their, in my opinion the later is the MVP Kobe deserves to be in the conversation.</div> That's one way to look at it. But I don't agee. I think there's a more significant difference between a 60 and 50 win team that a 30 and 10 win team, in terms of improving your chances of winning a championship. Since that's the ultimate goal of any team, it makes sense that we should judge a player's value based on that criteria.
Why are we talking about this, there is no good that's going to come from this. A kobe hater and Kobe fans never ends up pretty. Closed.
<div class="quote_poster">worldchamps9903 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">funny you should say that kobe should be a leader and lead his team to a victory. which he failed to do last night and on other occasions during the season. you said he was tired. if so why didn't he penetrate, draw the double team and throw out a assist? did he no. instead he opted to try to do everything himself. how can we know if his teammates suck, when he doesn't give them a chance to prove otherwise? a true mvp would trust his teammates to deliver. jordan did. duncan does. nash does. also a mvp makes his team better regardless of the surrounding talent. so don't give me the thing that he is a mvp. He won't be a mvp.</div> Let's get into then. Let's examine exactly why Kobe only had one assist. I want to reference two shots in crunchtime, Kobe's passing was responsible for, but he wasn't credited with the assists. Those two baskets, were the 3 pointers Smush drained from the baseline. Kobe Bryant's ability to penetrate the offense sucked in the Clippers defense, he swung the ball to Luke, and then Luke passed it to Smush for a wide open look from behind the arc. Kobe creates plenty of opportunities for his teammates to score and find high percentage looks. Getting an assist is the result of his teammate being able to put the ball in the basket when he finds them. Look at the boxscore, and the atrocious FG% of the Laker role players: Luke Walton 1-8 Lamar Odom 4-11 Ronny Turiaf & Andrew Bynum combined 5-14 Smush Parker was the only other starter who shot with any efficiency last night hitting 7 of 12. The rest of the starters were a pathetic 10 for 33 from the field, which equates to a 30.3% field goal percentage. It's very convenient to pick on Kobe after his team blew a significant lead late in the game. There's no doubt he struggled in the 4th quarter, and forced up some tough shots, but you can't overlook everything he did up to that point in the game. Without Kobe and his 50 points, the Lakers get blown out by over 20 points in this game. The Clippers were shooting 70% from the field in the first quarter, Kobe shot his team back into this game and enabled them to lead by 17 points.
"That's one way to look at it. But I don't agee. I think there's a more significant difference between a 60 and 50 win team that a 30 and 10 win team, in terms of improving your chances of winning a championship. Since that's the ultimate goal of any team, it makes sense that we should judge a player's value based on that criteria." Wow, Durvasa, what an interesting observation. Nice to see a bit of rational thought and analytical thinking going into this debate. You need to stop making so much sense or else the admins are going to kick you off this site.
<div class="quote_poster">djdiggydiggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">"That's one way to look at it. But I don't agee. I think there's a more significant difference between a 60 and 50 win team that a 30 and 10 win team, in terms of improving your chances of winning a championship. Since that's the ultimate goal of any team, it makes sense that we should judge a player's value based on that criteria." Wow, Durvasa, what an interesting observation. Nice to see a bit of rational thought and analytical thinking going into this debate. You need to stop making so much sense or else the admins are going to kick you off this site.</div> Yes Durvasa, stop making so much sense or else I'll have to kick you off the site. Kobe Bryant deseves to be in the discussion for MVP talks, but he shouldn't be in the top 3 at this point. There's been a lot of variables holding the Lakers team back this year, but even if they won the magical 50 games, I don't think it's enough to pass on Nash or Dirk.
<div class="quote_poster">worldchamps9903 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">funny you should say that kobe should be a leader and lead his team to a victory. which he failed to do last night and on other occasions during the season. you said he was tired. if so why didn't he penetrate, draw the double team and throw out a assist? did he no. instead he opted to try to do everything himself. how can we know if his teammates suck, when he doesn't give them a chance to prove otherwise? a true mvp would trust his teammates to deliver. jordan did. duncan does. nash does. also a mvp makes his team better regardless of the surrounding talent. so don't give me the thing that he is a mvp. He won't be a mvp.</div> How can we prove his teammates suck? Um, well, let's see. How many Laker games have you watched this season? Kobe's teammates are crap. Sorry to break it down like this. They've had tons of opportunities this season to prove themselves, something they haven't done. The season is nearly over. Kobe's "teammates" have had enough opportunities. When it's all said and done, Kobe doesn't have any talent around him to win. The reason why Kobe has to go for 50 is because the Lakers can't win if he doesn't go for 50. It's been proven time and time again that nobody steps up " a true mvp would trust his teammates to deliver. jordan did. duncan does. nash does. also a mvp makes his team better regardless of the surrounding talent. " Jordan, Duncan, Nash all have had tons of talent to work with. As for an MVP should make his team better regardless of the surrounding talent, that statement is ridiculous. The winners of MVPs all have tons of talent surrounding them, hence why the criteria is, an MVP must be on a team that is the top seed of his conference.
It's not the talent the Lakers lack, it's mental toughness. The roster is loaded with talent from top to bottom, but when it comes to thinking and focusing under duress, this team fails miserably. These players get rattled easily when shots aren't falling, they aren't getting calls, or a team makes a run against them. The shoulders start to slouch, the heads hang low, they bicker with the officials, and then pout on the bench when coach yanks them.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not the talent the Lakers lack, it's mental toughness. The roster is loaded with talent from top to bottom, but when it comes to thinking and focusing under duress, this team fails miserably. These players get rattled easily when shots aren't falling, they aren't getting calls, or a team makes a run against them. The shoulders start to slouch, the heads hang low, they bicker with the officials, and then pout on the bench when coach yanks them.</div> Talent? We dont' have any talent. Smush Parker wouldn't make 75% of any NBA team's roster, yet he's our starting point guard. Sasha Vujacic is complete trash. Jordan Farmar is still too young to contribute. Shammond Williams came from Euro-leagues. Kwame Brown has never amounted to anything in his career, yet he's usually a starter. Andrew Bynum is still way too young to contribute. Brian Cook is one of the worst defensive players in the league. Vladamir Radmanovic has been a complete joke since signing with us. Luke Walton is decent, but plays no defense. Lamar Odom is a joke of a second option, especially last night. Maurice Evans is decent, but a bench player. Ronny Turiaf hustles, plays with energy and heart. Turiaf, Evans, and Kobe are the only players on this team that even care about winning IMO. The others just seem like they're trying to earn their paycheck.
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Talent? We dont' have any talent. Smush Parker wouldn't make 75% of any NBA team's roster, yet he's our starting point guard. Sasha Vujacic is complete trash. Jordan Farmar is still too young to contribute. Shammond Williams came from Euro-leagues. Kwame Brown has never amounted to anything in his career, yet he's usually a starter. Andrew Bynum is still way too young to contribute. Brian Cook is one of the worst defensive players in the league. Vladamir Radmanovic has been a complete joke since signing with us. Luke Walton is decent, but plays no defense. Lamar Odom is a joke of a second option, especially last night. Maurice Evans is decent, but a bench player. Ronny Turiaf hustles, plays with energy and heart. Turiaf, Evans, and Kobe are the only players on this team that even care about winning IMO. The others just seem like they're trying to earn their paycheck.</div> These players all have physical talent. They're in the NBA for a reason, whether it's their size, athleticism, or upside potential. We've seen this team take down the Suns, Mavs, and Spurs, so don't tell me we lack talent. The problem is mental with this team.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">These players all have physical talent. They're in the NBA for a reason, whether it's their size, athleticism, or upside potential. We've seen this team take down the Suns, Mavs, and Spurs, so don't tell me we lack talent. The problem is mental with this team.</div> I wish they showed more of that so called talent. Esspecially Smush. I really want to see something happen this ofseason, it is so annyoying for the Lakers to lose easy games like that. I would rather them be a .400 team against the top teams then have them be .800 team against the good teams, if they were perfect against the sub .500 teams. This team is frustrating, I accutlly thought this team could win 50 games this season and maybe secure the 5th seed and then Kobe might have gotten MVP. This team is garbage without Kobe. We really should have traded Bynum for Kidd. Or atleast we should consider now trading Bynum this offseason for big time players (KG) , unlike the Shaq trade.
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Talent? We dont' have any talent. Smush Parker wouldn't make 75% of any NBA team's roster, yet he's our starting point guard. Sasha Vujacic is complete trash. Jordan Farmar is still too young to contribute. Shammond Williams came from Euro-leagues. Kwame Brown has never amounted to anything in his career, yet he's usually a starter. Andrew Bynum is still way too young to contribute. Brian Cook is one of the worst defensive players in the league. Vladamir Radmanovic has been a complete joke since signing with us. Luke Walton is decent, but plays no defense. Lamar Odom is a joke of a second option, especially last night. Maurice Evans is decent, but a bench player. Ronny Turiaf hustles, plays with energy and heart. Turiaf, Evans, and Kobe are the only players on this team that even care about winning IMO. The others just seem like they're trying to earn their paycheck.</div> youth has nothing to do with it. maybe inexperience does if thats the case but youth alone has nothing at all to do with being able to contribute. seriously, lebron, kobe, t-mac..ect. were these guys too young to contribute when they first entered? nope. just a thought.
