Well the trade deadline has come and past. And what did Thorn do? Absolutely nothing. Sure he can say that he kept Kidd and Carter. But did he make a move to get the necessary pieces? Thorn has gotten his way. Nets fans, get ready for a rock bottom, cellar dwelling ride for the next few seasons. But don't worry. Thorn will have Brooklyn up and ready. Who needs a playoff run when in a couple of years he'll be giving the Nets a shiny new stadium. Thanks THORN! You JackA!#!!!
Why are we screwed? Nobody knows if VC will leave at the end of the season; Orlando have already said that they aren't interested, and they are his most likely destination (or basically, only destination) if he decides to opt out. Kidd may be old, but he's still one of the best (if not the best) point guards in the league, so why is his stock low? Nobody cares about his contract, it expires in two years so it isn't THAT bad. I'm sure a lot of teams would pick it up in exchange for a leader and a player like him, if the Nets decide to trade him. Sure, Thorn didn't bring any extra pieces for this season, but did you really expect him to? There just aren't any available players that would help the team right now. You can't call the GM who single handedly built a team that reached two finals and won the division 4 times in the last 5 seasons a jacka$$. We'll have to wait and see what happens this season. If we make the playoffs, maybe we'll surprise some teams. If we don't, then we get a solid pick in the 1st round and add another piece to our core for the future. Trading Kidd to the Lakers would not have helped us, because it wouldn't make us better now and wouldn't help too much in the future either. Picking up a young point guard we don't need, two big men who get injured too often and a bunch of cash and crap draft picks would not help us. Mamba, if Kidd's value is so low, why were you willing to trade so much for him? Imagine if Kobe was 33 years old but still one of the best in the league at his position. Would you want to trade him for a bunch of busts, low draft picks and players you don't need? Don't worry, you're not alone, nobody else would either.
<div class="quote_poster">Mamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Now VC leaves, Kidd's stock is at an all-time low. You guys are screwed, pretty much.</div> Kidd made VC's career. Not the other way around.
I have to disagree with Mamba regarding Kidd's stock. It doesn't change. But Kidd was cheated from a chance to win with the Lakers. I do agree with Mamba saying that the Nets are screwed. Because they are. I don't take away the fact that Thorn did his job that enabled the Nets to back to finals appearances. I called him a jackass for how he is handling the situation now. Though I admire your optimism Kobimel, I have to say that it is all in vain. Don't get your hopes up. Because like I've said many a times. The Nets future has already been written by Thorn.
<div class="quote_poster">AMS_ice Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I have to disagree with Mamba regarding Kidd's stock. It doesn't change. But Kidd was cheated from a chance to win with the Lakers. I do agree with Mamba saying that the Nets are screwed. Because they are. I don't take away the fact that Thorn did his job that enabled the Nets to back to finals appearances. I called him a jackass for how he is handling the situation now. Though I admire your optimism Kobimel, I have to say that it is all in vain. Don't get your hopes up. Because like I've said many a times. The Nets future has already been written by Thorn.</div> Who said I'm getting my hopes up? All I said was, either we make the playoffs and have a chance to upset some teams (or lose in the 1st round, it doesn't matter either way as we're not getting to the Finals), or we don't and add another solid player to our young core for the future through the draft. Just because we don't have a chance to do anything this season, doesn't mean we're screwed. If Carter decides to stay (which right now, seems like a 50/50 chance), we can add a solid player or two (or three) through the draft and via our mid-level exception. If Carter leaves, his contract is off the books, and we can add a good player and a few decent role players with the added cap space and again, the draft. Either way, we don't get screwed and still are competitors for the division and maybe even the conference if we make the right moves. Why do you think the Nets' future is already written? How will not winning now help Thorn when the team gets to Brooklyn? If Thorn doesn't want the team to win, then Kidd and Carter have no reason to stay, will ask for a trade, get traded and the Nets will arrive in Brooklyn with no real star. Who'll buy seats in the new arena to watch Richard Jefferson? Nobody. If Thorn really wants to take advantage of the new arena and new city, he'll need a main attraction to get asses in those seats. So, basically, if Thorn doesn't try to help the team in the remaining seasons in Jersey, the team will not arrive ready to attract a crowd in Brooklyn. Nobody will buy tickets to see a team who hasn't won for the last few seasons and has no great player. Here's the equation for you: Winning now=Kidd+Carter staying Main attraction=Kidd+Carter Attracting crowd=having main attraction Thus: Attracting crowd=Winning now If Thorn tries to make the best team he can in the final seasons in New Jersey, the team will arrive in Brooklyn with a playoff reputation and at least one main attraction type of player (Kidd/Carter/both/a guy who gets traded for one of them), people in Brooklyn will want to watch the team and will buy tickets. Thorn is handling the situation right now decently. Not the best, but certainly not the worst possible. I think we have to wait to see what happens in the draft and in the summer before we judge him. Kidd does deserve to win, you're right. But you can't just take what he deserves/wants into consideration, you have to take the team's future and present needs into consideration too. Trading Kidd would've made the fans mad, brought really no help to the Nets in return and would basically be a bad decision. Gary Payton won a championship when he was 37 years old. John Sctockton never won one. A lot of great point guards have had to wait a long time in order to win a championship (some never did, like Johnny). Kidd can wait too. If the Nets continue to struggle for 2 more seasons, when his contract ends, he'll leave. And then he can get his championship. He is under contract with the Nets, you can't just jump ship because you want to win. Sure, he can demand a trade, but a)he doens't want to and b)the management might reject his request. So basically, Kidd is a Net right now, and he respects that. As long as he wants to stay a Net, why trade him, unless the team decides to rebuild (which isn't happening)?
Write this down. The Nets are on the verge of rebuilding. Thorn is using Kidd and Carter as tools for the process. Carter for trading purposes while Kidd will be put on task to pass the torch to Marcus Williams. How will not winning help Thorn? Two words, lottery pick.
Winning now? The Nets are not a playoff team at this point in the season and have a losing record. With Kidd and Carter they aren't a winning team. Let's assume the Nets make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed. What does it do for the franchise if they get bounced in Round 1 or Round 2? It won't change the fact the team's core isn't getting younger. The Nets will miss out on a top flight 2007 draft prospect, and won't have any cap flexibility to improve the roster. Now the Nets have to deal with a disgruntled Jason Kidd, and possibly lose Vince Carter for nothing in the offseason.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Winning now? The Nets are not a playoff team at this point in the season and have a losing record. With Kidd and Carter they aren't a winning team. Let's assume the Nets make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed. What does it do for the franchise if they get bounced in Round 1 or Round 2? It won't change the fact the team's core isn't getting younger. The Nets will miss out on a top flight 2007 draft prospect, and won't have any cap flexibility to improve the roster. Now the Nets have to deal with a disgruntled Jason Kidd, and possibly lose Vince Carter for nothing in the offseason.</div> By winning now, I meant winning in the next few seasons, till 2009-2010 (that's two seasons, I believe, plus this one). Who knows who the Nets will draft between now and then, and what offseason pickups they'll bring? I don't think the Nets drop out of contention for the division title or the playoffs in the next few seasons, even if Carter does leave. And who said Kidd is disgruntled? That's just a guess, nothing to prove it. The team's current core isn't getting younger, but it still has one for the future (Williams, Krstic, Adams, Boone, Wright, even Jefferson). If Carter leaves, the Nets WILL have cap flexibility. If he doesn't, there's always the mid-level exception. Whether the Nets make the playoffs this season or not, it's safe to say they'll have a pick between 10 and 16. So it's not like if they make the playoffs and lose in the 1st round, instead of not making the playoffs, they'll miss out on a can't miss prospect who's THAT much better than who they can pick if the do make the playoffs. The Nets are a playoff team. Plain and simple. They can STILL beat out Toronto for the division crown, and they are only a few games behind Miami (who they'll probably pass), Orlando and a few other teams. The east is very, very tight this season.
<div class="quote_poster">nextlevelgame Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd made VC's career. Not the other way around.</div> Kidd didn't make Carter's career, and neither did Carter make Kidd's career. Back on topic, I think we are screwed for the next few years, unless VC re-sings with us, Kidd plays great, RJ and Krstic are back to their normal selves (even better), and if we develop a bench or get a decent defensive and rebounding bing man. Richard Jefferson isn't as old as everyone thinks and still has alot potential to be a very good player. Nenad Krstic is a underrated player. Marcus Williams will be one of the best points guards of the future. We basically will be a very good team in the future, but as of right now, I don't think we will get past the second round at most.
<div class="quote_poster">Carter Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd didn't make Carter's career, and neither did Carter make Kidd's career. Back on topic, I think we are screwed for the next few years, unless VC re-sings with us, Kidd plays great, RJ and Krstic are back to their normal selves (even better), and if we develop a bench or get a decent defensive and rebounding bing man. Richard Jefferson isn't as old as everyone thinks and still has alot potential to be a very good player. Nenad Krstic is a underrated player. Marcus Williams will be one of the best points guards of the future. We basically will be a very good team in the future, but as of right now, I don't think we will get past the second round at most.</div> I agree. Neither of them made each others career. Kidd will be in the Hall of Fame with or without Vince. While Carter was already a star when he came to New Jersey. But Kidd was partly responsible for putting Carter back on track. As for the team. Well... (sigh) I think Thorn pretty much sealed our fate. I hope Kidd can still get his ring and for Carter to be on a team where he can fit well.
<div class="quote_poster">nextlevelgame Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd made VC's career. Not the other way around.</div> How does this even make sense, the highlights of Carter's career were long before he started playing on the Nets, neither guy "made" the other's career. No one makes anyone else's career unless they carry them to championships or something, and Kidd and Carter haven't even gotten to the ECF together, so Kidd hasn't done anything to boost Carter's career accolades or vice-versa.
If I remember correctly, Carter was slumming it in Toronto the last two or three seasons he was there. No one cared about him. He couldn't even get into clubs during All-Star events. Comes to New Jersey where Kidd told him to start playing or quit, his career is revived. Anyone thinking that Carter turned it on is wrong; Kidd said he wouldn't have any of it. If you look at the Carter slump moments in his time in Jersey and then all of the sudden put up a string of good games you'll see that he always credits Jason for his turn around.
