Trade Ideas Thread

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BonesJones, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    For now, he is better. Bagley could be a bust or he could improve, I really have not watched him. I know he has struggled. But if there is any way he can surpass Harris in 2 years they could try to dump that 3rd year for Harris. Talk about overpaid.
     
  2. Buffalo Custard

    Buffalo Custard Well-Known Member

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    The only happy people in Salem are the ones in the state hospital. They get drugs.
     
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  3. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    One problem with trading for Simmons is the fit with him and Nurk. So how about this:

    CJ for Simmons
    Nurk, Covington, 2024 2026 picks for Beal

    Dame Simons
    Beal
    Powell NAS
    Nance
    Simmons Zeller
     
  4. royo

    royo Well-Known Member

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    It looks like you trading CJ for a size and then trading Nurk and RoCo... just to come back to the same size.
    It's a No from me.
     
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  5. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I just really don't think Beal is that much better than CJ. I watched him in the Olympics. They're not that much different.
     
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  6. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Beal couldn't play in the Olympics.
     
  7. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I meant on the Olympic team during the exhibitions when he looked like shit.
     
  8. BankTeller

    BankTeller New Member

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    Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to do if we are ultimately going back to a 3 guard lineup. I don’t think that package beats a Warriors package either.
    Waiting it out and seeing how everything gels would be better. If CJ has a start to the season and you can pull the trigger on a one-for-one trade, then obviously you do that. Possibilities to improve the team changes drastically if we can get him without any picks, or just have to up a pick swap at most.
    I think the biggest x-factor is Nas. If Nas can establish himself as as our longterm starter alongside Ben, the need for improvement should be focused on center not shooting guard. I don’t know how much better you get upgrading Norm, but I know you can get a lot better upgrading Nurk. Expiring Nurkic, expiring Covington, an improved Simons (or maybe Norm, and you keep Simons to start at SG), and all of our picks would all be available for a guy like KAT. I don’t see Simmons wanting to bang with bigs down there but he would help KAT greatly on defense at PF.
     
  9. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    I would obviously like Simmons more than Draymond, but this would be a great return for us.

    upload_2021-9-8_15-41-43.png
     
  10. blazedanugz

    blazedanugz Well-Known Member

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    dont see warriors doing that
     
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  11. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    I want to acquire Ben Simmons but like the idea of keeping CJ, Powell, and Roco. Obviously we want to keep Dame too. Nurkic while I am high on as a starter is the one player I most question the fit of with Simmons, he also has injury concerns. Nurk has playoff games where he is ineffective, either from opponents going small or going against the elite Anthony Davis/Jokic class of centers.

    Maybe we should try to do a trade such as this;

    Blazers acquire Simmons
    76ers acquire Beal
    Wizards acquire Nurkic - Nance Jr - A. Simons - 2 first round picks from Philly and 3 first round picks from Portland (2024 2026 2028 worded as first available picks after 2022 goes to Chicago)

    Dame
    CJ Snell
    Powell NAS
    Roco
    Simmons Zeller

    If Washington got 5 first round picks for Beal they'd have to seriously consider it. Blazers could find some more vet minimum centers and bigs to help in the regular season; but would have their own version of the death lineup with Simmons or Roco at center.
     
  12. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    Revising my last trade post... Washington doesn't have a need for the current year impact of Nurk or Nance if they are trading away Beal and rebuilding. So revising that to reroute Nurk to Charlotte for Plumlee and a pick, and send Nance to Dallas for Maxi Kleber and a pick would end up with the following;

    Blazers get Simmons
    76ers get Beal
    Wizards get Plumlee, Kleber, Simons, 6 first round picks (2 Philly, 2 PDX, CLT, DAL)

    The Blazers could bring Powell off the bench and have him as part of a closing death lineup. Go with starters of;

    Dame
    CJ
    Roco
    Simmons
    Zeller

    That type of trade where we send out future first round picks for an impact upgrade this year elevates our squad to contender status. A trade of CJ for Simmons, while possibly an upgrade, is more of a lateral move that won't bring a title.

    Even if Washington won't trade Beal for 6! first round picks... the Blazers could try to get in on a Simmons multi team trade with say Sacramento in a way that upgrades the starters more than just a simple Simmons for CJ swap.
     
  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    all these contortions are designed to just keep CJ on the Blazers?

    to start with, it's become fairly obvious that the Blazers, as an organization, are a lot more reactive to luxury tax implications than they were when Paul Allen was alive. Blazers would have not left the TPMLE unused if PA was still the owner....IMO. So then, committing to over 130M in salaries to just 4 players, for the next 3-4 seasons just doesn't seem realistic. That would be committing to repeater tax as well as committing to Powell as a backup when his history is he plays much worse as a backup

    as for your lineup of:

    Dame
    CJ
    Roco
    Simmons
    Zeller

    that's not nearly as good, again IMO, as:

    Dame
    Powell
    Roco
    Simmons
    Nurkic

    or

    Dame
    Powell
    Roco
    Nance
    Simmons

    both of those lineups are better than any keep-CJ fantasy

    I mean, the Blazers would be trading for Simmons knowing he'd need lots of touches to be effective. That would make the mesh between Dame and Simmons a little tricky but would be quite solvable. But adding CJ's ball dominance and shot clock usage would relegate Simmons to a watcher and significantly degrade his impact. It makes no sense, to me at least, on any level...sorry. The mesh between Dame and CJ has always been awkward because of their redundancy in styles, size, and position. That hasn't improved, at all, in 6 seasons. It's actually become worse in some significant ways.

    The only good argument for not trading CJ was who was going to replace him in the lineup. Portland has Powell now, so that argument is moot. What's left is the return Portland can get for CJ, but if the Blazers can get Simmons for CJ, that's actually better than they should have expected. It's a buy-low opportunity for Portland
     
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  14. 1 Eye Jack

    1 Eye Jack Well-Known Member

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    not sure why Roco is included in so many trades, we finally get a defender and now he’s included in everyone’s trades ( no offense to you). We need more defense not less, I think the only way we win a championship is through being a tremendous defensive team. I can see Billups following Detroit model
     
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  15. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    Nurk not fitting next to Simmons in a theoretical lineup is a pretty lazy narrative. Warriors won championships with Bogut and Zaza Pachulia starting next to Draymond and I don’t think either one could hit a three if you gave them 10 attempts.

    That being said I don’t want Ben. I think we’re under rating what a downgrade that is offensively. Doesn’t matter how good of a passer he is if no one respects his shot.
     
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  16. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    You make a lot of good arguments.

    Some counter arguments are
    -CJ is superior to any 3rd best player on your lineups, top end talent matters far more than depth
    -The luxury tax will be less of an issue in a couple years as the cap is likely to increase significantly on renegotiated TV contract. Having $130 million a year committed to long term payroll will actually be an advantage when many max salaries are 50-60+ million range.
    -Dame and CJ are at a point in their careers where they can take a step back in usage %, along with reduced offensive touches from Melo/Kanter/Nurk absence; Simmons would have plenty of offensive opportunities

    Another way of looking at this is what has more value to the Blazers
    CJ vs Nurk+Nance+Simons+2 first round picks.

    There are reasonable arguments with either choice.
     
  17. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    As Nurk is in the last year of his contract the fit is certainly a valid concern.

    I'm not saying you avoid a a Ben Simmons trade because of that, or the team has a firm ultimatum to trade Nurk, it just brings up legit questions of the best fit. I don't believe a 27 year old Nurk would be happy sitting 4th quarters as an over 30 year old Bogut did.

    Simmons would be the second star on the team, and in 2021 we don't see non shooters sharing the floor as much as Draymond & Bogut did years ago.

    If it won't work out well during the season, it would be preferable to find a solution sooner than later.
     
  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    well, I know how I'd vote in that

    at this point, Nance's value is pretty debatable until we see him for a year as a Blazer. Nurk's value, but more importantly his impact, isn't debatable and it has been, when healthy, much higher than CJ's. Of course, the kicker there is 'when healthy' and we know that's not anywhere close to a given. As I said, I think the mesh of Simmons with CJ & Dame will be very problematic but that doesn't mean there would be a good mesh between Simmons and Nurkic. That's an open question for sure

    and of course, many of the gauges are on one end of the floor only. We can only guess at the value of defense for Portland right now, but we sure have 6 years of the defense of Dame/CJ to measure against

    I'm also having a real hard time believing the Blazers can land Simmons without giving up CJ
     
  19. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

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    The health is a huge concern with Nurk. Yes we've seen Nurk have a much larger benefit than CJ for stretches as a two way player during the regular season.

    But I'm more interested with the impact on playoff basketball. We've seen Nurk played off the court in matchups against quicker bigs. He's been on the court for 3 playoff wins in his career two of which were the disappointing series loss months ago to Denver.... on the other hand CJ has carried the team in a series clinching game to make the conference finals. I trust CJ more on the big stage, I trust him more on a variety of styles of basketball against big or small opponents, I trust him more to be healthy enough to play, and I trust him much more after pocketing large dollars on a long term deal to be in shape.

    I'm still a big Nurk fan. I will be happy to see how the current roster performs with him, with Billups coaching, Nance, and more time to integrate Powell... but if I have to pick between CJ and Nurk the choice is easy for me.
     
  20. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Now that you put it that way; I'm sure I wouldn't want to do it!
     

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