Trail of Tears

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by TBpup, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Winslow is the only high draft pick he's had in the past 5 years. Aside from that, the team's been too good to have any high picks.

    And yeah, he has Butler now, and they're now battling for home court, and making more deals to try to get even better. The contrast between Riley and Olshey is pretty stark.
     
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  2. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Yeah, that was a tough summer. The league wanted to ramp up the cap gradually, but the players insisted it be done immediately. It benefitted the players whose contracts were up and screwed the rest of the lower end FAs in following years.

    We made a bet on Crabbe, Leonard, Turner and Harkless. I would argue only Harkless even came close to earning market value.

    Turner never fit and neither Crabbe nor Leonard developed into the players we had hoped they would. The market for Crabbe and Leonard was distorted by the jump in cap space. I'm reminded of the mid-90s when guys like Kenyon Martin were getting max deals because of the cap bump.

    It wasn't just Olshey. Sometimes the market screws you.
     
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  3. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    First, I didn't know Torey Jones was bonesjones as I saw afterwards someone else post who it was and second, I don't hate him, so go bark up another tree. You still never addressed my question as it appears you realized you were in the wrong what you posted to me.
     
  4. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Olshey has been a so-so general manager. 2016 was a pretty poor off-season. But his overall results since he took over have been a mixed bag--sometimes the team has been pretty bad, sometimes it's been mediocre, sometimes it's been good. They've been in the playoffs most years (which isn't, itself, a huge feather in his cap as half the teams make it and the Blazers have often been towards the bottom of the seedings) but they've also won a few playoff series and often been knocked off by the juggernaut Warriors.

    I think anyone who says that Olshey is a good general manager or a bad general manager is overstating their case. He's probably at best an average general manager--he's put together consistently competitive teams built around Lillard, but rarely have they been really good, nor has there ever been a clear path, even notionally, to taking the "next step." He drafted arguably the best player in Portland history, but has often maxed out payroll to put mediocre supporting casts around Lillard.
     
  5. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    If Olshey drafted Giannis in 2013 the Blazers would probably have a championship by now. I don't fault him for it, CJ was a good pick at 10 all things considered. But ahhh, what might have been. Dame and Giannis would be possibly the most destructive duo in the league.

    Just knowing Giannis was on the board makes my blood boil a bit. Best player in the league for what will probably be close to a decade and we had a shot at him.
     
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  6. GriLtCheeZ

    GriLtCheeZ "Well, I'm not lookin' for trouble."

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    In general I'm kind of annoyed by you O'Shyster, but I I have to admit that I fully expect another defiant press conference from Neal where he talks down to everyone.
     
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  7. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I’d say that getting to the WCF last season with Harkless, Leonard and ET all making significant contributions was the payoff for their contracts.
     
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  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    just to be fair to Olshey, and more accurate: about the Varejao deal (doing this from memory):

    at the time Portland was well under the salary floor so Varejao's salary was all going to be credited against that floor. It was around 9.5M, give or take. But a portion was still due Varejao, probably around 35-40%. So then, the actual savings to Portland was likely around 5.5-6M, give or take

    Varejao had 3 years left on his deal. The 1st year applied to floor; another year of full salary; and a small partially guaranteed year. IIRC, he agreed to a slight reduction in a buyout so the Blazers stretched him for 5 years and the total stretch was a shade over 9.7M. Subtract what Portland saved in their floor assessment and you're left with somewhere in the 3.5-3.8M range as the baseline cost of that 26th pick in 2017. But you still have to apply luxury tax. Personally, I think dead salary should be applied to the tax first. If you do that, last year and this year, that's about 6M in tax than has to be added to that 3.5M cost, meaning a 26th pick cost 9.5M. Even if you apportion dead salary the same as other salary, that 26th pick is still costing 4M

    so then, you have: acquisition-cost --> 26th pick --> Swanigan --> Skal --> relinquishment-cost. Looking with a jaundiced eye, that's 11.5M down one of Olshey's rat-holes (LOL...and I started out saying "to be fair to Olshey")
     
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  9. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    well, a lot of teams passed on him as he wasn't projected to be what he has become. Just like we were fortunate to get Lillard as a redo of the draft projects him as the #2 over all pick and the following year he picked McCollum who has been projected as the #3 pick in a redo. I would challenge anyone that blames Olshey for passing on Giannis to show me some evidence that they were touting him as the player we should pick before the draft.
     
  10. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Most of the people upset about today and all that were people who had already said they'd be mad if Whiteside wasn't traded, or were more than likely going to be upset at NO for whatever he did because they don't like NO.
    I believe on the other side most of the people who approve of him, were probably going to be supportive of what he did no matter what too unless he traded Dame or something.
    I don't think today "swayed" anyone in terms of how they felt about NO, or the state of the team.
     
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  11. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    From what I have heard, that was Paul Allen which was unwilling to lose players with little compensation as happened with LMA and JO. They believed that at worst they will be able to use them as trade assets, which they have - with Harkless and Leonard basically getting Portland their 2nd best player this year.
     
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  12. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    What I always do when I see trades and decisions is put myself in the persons shoes and rationalize why that decision may have been made. It has nothing to do with hating or liking Olshey as he hasn't done anything great (some his making and some just being the timing) but he has always been able to fill out a roster that has been competitive. We have been in the playoffs all but the first year of Olshey and 3 times lost in the first round, twice making it to the Semis and once to the WCF. I bet there are a lot of teams that would like that as teams like Phoenix, Minnesota, Pelicans etc.have done much worse. Even the Clippers have only been to the second round twice and lost in the first round 4 times during that same time period.
     
  13. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    Think of all the big money offers Neil made to players who DIDN'T sign here. They (or other teams) saved him from it being even worse.
     
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  14. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Hack, take OKC - since Neil has came here - they managed to get to the conference finals twice, semi once and 3 times first round, despite having 2 MVPs on the roster and Paul George which is frankly better than any player not called Lillard on Portland's roster during that time.

    I think it is pretty clear that he is a competent but not great GM - he can build a competitive team, did not manage to build a contender - even tho the 2013-2014 and last-year teams might have been barring injuries.
     
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  15. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I understand, theres worse, theres better all that. Im just saying that for most today wasn't going to change their opinion of NO.
     
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  16. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    and I totally agree with that as not much surprises me from this forum anymore. :cheers:
     
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  17. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Try focusing on the positives rather than continually dwelling on the negatives. Lillard pretty much said this the other day in an interview. If you constantly think negativity, negativity over takes ones life. I prefer to live my life in a positive mind.
     
  18. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention New Jersey later foolishly bailing him out for his decision to match the overblown offer on Crabbe.
     
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  19. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Dont bite the hand that feeds you Franco
     
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  20. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I'll still defend signing Crabbe. That was a gamble that didn't pay off, but we got "toxic"ed and I agree that Uncle Paul was probably behind the "match it" call.
    Let's not forget that Parsons was offered a Max at midnight of July 1 as well, and ended up with MEM. I would've been behind the Whiteside contract if he would've chosen us. Not so much the rumors about Zaza and D-Ho.
     

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