<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Carlos Zambrano loves Chicago. He loves the Cubs. He loves pitching in the National League, hitting in the NL. For him, it's personal. He's ready to sign a five-year contract of $85 million to $90 million, which, while it won't be confused with change found underneath couch cushions, is probably significantly less than he could get on the open market, by tens of millions of dollars.For the Cubs, it's business. And their business is about to be sold. So while the general framework for the Zambrano deal was agreed to many weeks ago, in the hours leading up to Opening Day, the Cubs haven't yet finished the contract. It may be that they will never finish the contract.Some day very soon, maybe within the next week, this could go from a personal to business for Carlos Zambrano, too. And you couldn't blame him.The primary motivation for Zambrano to get to a deal now, rather than push for a Barry Zito-like deal in the offseason, is security. Maybe you don't get as much cash in a five-year deal and $85 million-$90 million now, but you get the security of having a guaranteed deal, money that will change your life and the life of your great-grandchildren, and the security that lends peace of mind.But Zambrano doesn't have security yet; he doesn't have peace of mind. In fact, he's been getting knocked around a bit, giving up 43 hits, 22 walks and nine homers in 40.1 innings, for a 5.80 ERA. Zambrano, to his credit, hasn't used his pending contract situation as an excuse, but others within the Cubs' circle believe that the uncertainty is bothering him.I've covered players in Zambrano's situation who said privately that they were very much bothered by ongoing negotiations, because when they took the field every day, they felt as if they were auditioning for the big-money payoff. This can be especially true for starting pitchers, who have four days between starts to fret and worry about why their contract is not getting done. A player agent once laughed about how he would get phone calls from the team only when his client had a nice outing, and never when he had a bad outing. "It's like they're going back and forth, start to start, on whether to give him the deal," said the agent.This is why so many players cut off negotiations before the start of a season. They want it off their mental plate.The holdup seems to be taking place in offices high over the head of Cubs GM Jim Hendry, who negotiated the parameters of the Zambrano semi-agreement this spring, so it's unlikely that a few rough games are the reason why Zambrano hasn't gotten his deal. It's about business: Do the suits in the Tribune Co. want to add another huge bill on the books of the company as they try to sell it?But some day very soon, Zambrano probably needs to clear his mind about the contractual hold-up and focus entirely on pitching -- and maybe even use the Cubs' deliberation as motivation. So, you're not sure if you want my assets on your books? Well, OK, but you'll pay for that.Somebody will pay for it. Maybe the Mets, or the Red Sox, or the Yankees, or the Dodgers, or the Astros. Zito is two years older than Zambrano and doesn't have as much in the way of pure stuff, and he got $126 million. Zambrano will be the most coveted free-agent pitcher on the market as long as he doesn't have a subpar year that makes other teams wonder about his ability to focus. The biggest threat to Zambrano's market value, in a sense, may be Zambrano continuing to wait for the Cubs to give his contract the final go-ahead.He's been the good guy in this negotiation so far. He's shown a willingness to take a hometown discount (for extraordinary money, yes), he's waited for the Cubs to complete the deal, and he hasn't been screaming about the delays. He's kept his mouth shut.Zambrano probably needs to tell the Cubs: It's business, and it's time for you to make a decision, and if you don't make a decision, I will. Because it's time for me to forget about the extension and do all my thinking about pitching. </div>They must really not want him back. Next year the Yankees will have Hughes, Wang, and who at SP? If they are willing to pay the Rocket and Pettitte that money for 1 year, they'll give it to Big Z for 4 or 5 years no problem.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 10 2007, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They must really not want him back. Next year the Yankees will have Hughes, Wang, and who at SP? If they are willing to pay the Rocket and Pettitte that money for 1 year, they'll give it to Big Z for 4 or 5 years no problem.</div>Haha, Yankees Fans are so spoiled it cracks me up. If Carlos Zambrano hits the open market there will be at least 10 teams after him, if not more. Not to mention Zambrano has already showed it's not about money as he's willing to sign a deal for less with the Cubs, so I doubt the 'Yankee money' will do you guys much good in those talks.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 11 2007, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 10 2007, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They must really not want him back. Next year the Yankees will have Hughes, Wang, and who at SP? If they are willing to pay the Rocket and Pettitte that money for 1 year, they'll give it to Big Z for 4 or 5 years no problem.</div>Haha, Yankees Fans are so spoiled it cracks me up. If Carlos Zambrano hits the open market there will be at least 10 teams after him, if not more. Not to mention Zambrano has already showed it's not about money as he's willing to sign a deal for less with the Cubs, so I doubt the 'Yankee money' will do you guys much good in those talks.</div>He'll give up on wanting to be with the hometown team for a discount soon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 11 2007, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 11 2007, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 10 2007, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They must really not want him back. Next year the Yankees will have Hughes, Wang, and who at SP? If they are willing to pay the Rocket and Pettitte that money for 1 year, they'll give it to Big Z for 4 or 5 years no problem.</div>Haha, Yankees Fans are so spoiled it cracks me up. If Carlos Zambrano hits the open market there will be at least 10 teams after him, if not more. Not to mention Zambrano has already showed it's not about money as he's willing to sign a deal for less with the Cubs, so I doubt the 'Yankee money' will do you guys much good in those talks.</div>He'll give up on wanting to be with the hometown team for a discount soon.</div>Vilma, seriously I've had enough of you making fantasies of Z coming to the Yankees. We need some sort of deal in place for when he signs his big contract of how the loser will embarrass themselves.
[quote name='DevinHester23' post='92231' date='May 11 2007, 09:51 AM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='92220' date='May 11 2007, 10:02 AM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='92213' date='May 11 2007, 07:25 AM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='92207' date='May 10 2007, 11:24 PM']They must really not want him back. Next year the Yankees will have Hughes, Wang, and who at SP? If they are willing to pay the Rocket and Pettitte that money for 1 year, they'll give it to Big Z for 4 or 5 years no problem.[/quote]Haha, Yankees Fans are so spoiled it cracks me up. If Carlos Zambrano hits the open market there will be at least 10 teams after him, if not more. Not to mention Zambrano has already showed it's not about money as he's willing to sign a deal for less with the Cubs, so I doubt the 'Yankee money' will do you guys much good in those talks.[/quote]He'll give up on wanting to be with the hometown team for a discount soon.[/quote]Vilma, seriously I've had enough of you making fantasies of Z coming to the Yankees. We need some sort of deal in place for when he signs his big contract of how the loser will embarrass themselves.[/quote]Don't throw a hissy fit just because your ownership won't even sign your star pitcher for a huge freaking discount.
It's only really a discount in terms of the number of years. The AAV is somewhere between 17 and 18 million per year, which is compareable to what he would get in the open market IMO.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 11 2007, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's only really a discount in terms of the number of years. The AAV is somewhere between 17 and 18 million per year, which is compareable to what he would get in the open market IMO.</div>On the open Market, Biz gets that if he has a BAD year. A good year and he's banking 22-25 per year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 11 2007, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 11 2007, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's only really a discount in terms of the number of years. The AAV is somewhere between 17 and 18 million per year, which is compareable to what he would get in the open market IMO.</div>On the open Market, Biz gets that if he has a BAD year. A good year and he's banking 22-25 per year.</div>I don't really agree. There is only two players with an AAV over 20 per year on their contract right now and that's A-Rod and Clemens. While Zambrano will be valueable, I don't see him as the type of arm capable of breaking 20 million a year, especially when his ERA is almost 6 right now.I see him having to 'settle' for money very similar to what Zito got. As a matter of fact, they have very similar career stat-lines so far.Zito 105-66, 3.55 ERA, .671 OPS AgainstZambrano 67-45, 3.40 ERA, .668 OPS AgainstConsidering that Zito played in the American League for those years, and has a Cy Young under his belt, I'd say that more then makes up for his lower strikeout rates in the eyes of the MLB teams.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 11 2007, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 11 2007, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 11 2007, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's only really a discount in terms of the number of years. The AAV is somewhere between 17 and 18 million per year, which is compareable to what he would get in the open market IMO.</div>On the open Market, Biz gets that if he has a BAD year. A good year and he's banking 22-25 per year.</div>I don't really agree. There is only two players with an AAV over 20 per year on their contract right now and that's A-Rod and Clemens. While Zambrano will be valueable, I don't see him as the type of arm capable of breaking 20 million a year, especially when his ERA is almost 6 right now.I see him having to 'settle' for money very similar to what Zito got. As a matter of fact, they have very similar career stat-lines so far.Zito 105-66, 3.55 ERA, .671 OPS AgainstZambrano 67-45, 3.40 ERA, .668 OPS AgainstConsidering that Zito played in the American League for those years, and has a Cy Young under his belt, I'd say that more then makes up for his lower strikeout rates in the eyes of the MLB teams.</div>1. The market will increase next year, as it does every year.2. Zambrano is 25 right now, will be 26 in the offseason; Zito was 28 in the last offseason and is 29 right now.Teams will be drooling over having a pitcher for 5 years, and those years being 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30. The time when pitchers get better and better. The only way he doesn't break 20 is if he takes a hometown discount or has a terrible year/injury.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 11 2007, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. The market will increase next year, as it does every year.2. Zambrano is 25 right now, will be 26 in the offseason; Zito was 28 in the last offseason and is 29 right now.Teams will be drooling over having a pitcher for 5 years, and those years being 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30. The time when pitchers get better and better. The only way he doesn't break 20 is if he takes a hometown discount or has a terrible year/injury.</div>1. The Market hasn't increased every year. If anything it's been more of a cycle, the Offseason after 2000 was very similar to last year's offseason where Mediocre Pitchers like Denny Neagle got 51 million over 5 years and Good (Not Great) Pitchers like Mike Hampton got 121 million over 8 Years. Meanwhile other players like Alex Rodriguez (10 yr, 252 million) and Manny Ramirez (8 yr, 160) also got rediculous deals. After that, the market quickly quited down for a few years and was now just on it's way back up until last offseason when there was a major spending spree. The market might go up again next offseason, or it might go back down for a few years. There really is no way to tell until it happens.2. Age does not affect the players Average Annual Value, just the number of deals on the Year. If Zambrano hit the open market, I would expect him to be offered an 8 year deal by somebody. PS: Zito doesn't turn 29 until Sunday.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 11 2007, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 11 2007, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. The market will increase next year, as it does every year.2. Zambrano is 25 right now, will be 26 in the offseason; Zito was 28 in the last offseason and is 29 right now.Teams will be drooling over having a pitcher for 5 years, and those years being 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30. The time when pitchers get better and better. The only way he doesn't break 20 is if he takes a hometown discount or has a terrible year/injury.</div>1. The Market hasn't increased every year. If anything it's been more of a cycle, the Offseason after 2000 was very similar to last year's offseason where Mediocre Pitchers like Denny Neagle got 51 million over 5 years and Good (Not Great) Pitchers like Mike Hampton got 121 million over 8 Years. Meanwhile other players like Alex Rodriguez (10 yr, 252 million) and Manny Ramirez (8 yr, 160) also got rediculous deals. After that, the market quickly quited down for a few years and was now just on it's way back up until last offseason when there was a major spending spree. The market might go up again next offseason, or it might go back down for a few years. There really is no way to tell until it happens.2. Age does not affect the players Average Annual Value, just the number of deals on the Year. If Zambrano hit the open market, I would expect him to be offered an 8 year deal by somebody. PS: Zito doesn't turn 29 until Sunday.</div>1. The overall average has increased every year, and the biggest deals are based on who is on the open market year-to-year. But the average always goes up.2. Age effects how much a team will want a player, and thus how much higher they will bid in the auction style Free Agency that exists today.
vilma, you are crazy if you think Zambrano will get 22-25 million. There is only ONE pitcher in baseball that will get money over $20mill, and his name is Johan Santana. Zambrano will get Zito money if he hits the open market. And he will not sign with the Yankees, because he, along wtih everyone else knows, if a pitcher goes to the Yankees via FA, they are doomed to injury and many bad years of pitching.PS: You know why it's ok that Zito is going to be 29 while Zambrano is 26, can I ask you, when was the last time Zito got hurt? Oh yeah.....never. How about Zambrano? Definately can't say the same thing, and hes very overweight which could haunt him down the road. Also, Zito pitched in the much harder AL, however, Z pitches in the NL. Also, Zito has that CY Young, and that always comes in handy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ May 13 2007, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>vilma, you are crazy if you think Zambrano will get 22-25 million. There is only ONE pitcher in baseball that will get money over $20mill, and his name is Johan Santana. Zambrano will get Zito money if he hits the open market. And he will not sign with the Yankees, because he, along wtih everyone else knows, if a pitcher goes to the Yankees via FA, they are doomed to injury and many bad years of pitching.PS: You know why it's ok that Zito is going to be 29 while Zambrano is 26, can I ask you, when was the last time Zito got hurt? Oh yeah.....never. How about Zambrano? Definately can't say the same thing, and hes very overweight which could haunt him down the road. Also, Zito pitched in the much harder AL, however, Z pitches in the NL. Also, Zito has that CY Young, and that always comes in handy.</div>If Big Z and Zito were both availible for the exact same deal, 90% of people would take Big Z. Plus he's younger. Plus it's 1 more year later.I don't know... I think Roger Clemens did pretty well for himself as a FA pitcher in NY.....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 13 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ May 13 2007, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>vilma, you are crazy if you think Zambrano will get 22-25 million. There is only ONE pitcher in baseball that will get money over $20mill, and his name is Johan Santana. Zambrano will get Zito money if he hits the open market. And he will not sign with the Yankees, because he, along wtih everyone else knows, if a pitcher goes to the Yankees via FA, they are doomed to injury and many bad years of pitching.PS: You know why it's ok that Zito is going to be 29 while Zambrano is 26, can I ask you, when was the last time Zito got hurt? Oh yeah.....never. How about Zambrano? Definately can't say the same thing, and hes very overweight which could haunt him down the road. Also, Zito pitched in the much harder AL, however, Z pitches in the NL. Also, Zito has that CY Young, and that always comes in handy.</div>If Big Z and Zito were both availible for the exact same deal, 90% of people would take Big Z. Plus he's younger. Plus it's 1 more year later.I don't know... I think Roger Clemens did pretty well for himself as a FA pitcher in NY.....</div>Roger Clemens came to the Yankees via Trade before the 1999 season. The Yankees traded Wells, Homer Bush, and Graeme Lloyd for him. :thumbsup: Oh, and iknobear, Carlos Zambrano also loves to hit and has made it known, which is another reason I see it as unlikely that he goes to the American League. Just my opinion though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 13 2007, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 13 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ May 13 2007, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>vilma, you are crazy if you think Zambrano will get 22-25 million. There is only ONE pitcher in baseball that will get money over $20mill, and his name is Johan Santana. Zambrano will get Zito money if he hits the open market. And he will not sign with the Yankees, because he, along wtih everyone else knows, if a pitcher goes to the Yankees via FA, they are doomed to injury and many bad years of pitching.PS: You know why it's ok that Zito is going to be 29 while Zambrano is 26, can I ask you, when was the last time Zito got hurt? Oh yeah.....never. How about Zambrano? Definately can't say the same thing, and hes very overweight which could haunt him down the road. Also, Zito pitched in the much harder AL, however, Z pitches in the NL. Also, Zito has that CY Young, and that always comes in handy.</div>If Big Z and Zito were both availible for the exact same deal, 90% of people would take Big Z. Plus he's younger. Plus it's 1 more year later.I don't know... I think Roger Clemens did pretty well for himself as a FA pitcher in NY.....</div>Roger Clemens came to the Yankees via Trade before the 1999 season. The Yankees traded Wells, Homer Bush, and Graeme Lloyd for him. :thumbsup: Oh, and iknobear, Carlos Zambrano also loves to hit and has made it known, which is another reason I see it as unlikely that he goes to the American League. Just my opinion though.</div>Good call on the trade, but does anyone (aside from fans) really believe in such curses? Players keep doing the cover of Madden and the like.Dontrelle Willis loves to hit too, will he pass on big bucks to stay behind as well?
Another thing, Zambrano was abused by Dusty, but he didn't suffer the fate of Wood and Prior, only IMO b/c he is big, but he will break down later
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ May 13 2007, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Another thing, Zambrano was abused by Dusty, but he didn't suffer the fate of Wood and Prior, only IMO b/c he is big, but he will break down later</div>Hey, David Wells claims his extra weight protects him from injury...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 13 2007, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ May 13 2007, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Another thing, Zambrano was abused by Dusty, but he didn't suffer the fate of Wood and Prior, only IMO b/c he is big, but he will break down later</div>Hey, David Wells claims his extra weight protects him from injury...</div>He says that just because he's just too lazy to go on a Diet. :whistling:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 14 2007, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 13 2007, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ May 13 2007, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Another thing, Zambrano was abused by Dusty, but he didn't suffer the fate of Wood and Prior, only IMO b/c he is big, but he will break down later</div>Hey, David Wells claims his extra weight protects him from injury...</div>He says that just because he's just too lazy to go on a Diet. :whistling:</div>Zambrano will break down. Look at Bartolo Colon. He was abused early, but he didn't break down until later
