blows it again terible the team was "pretty" good nowhere near the best we could have had but this team we had should have handled greece thoughts?
So lebron, wade, carmelo are "nowhere near the best" in the NBA? The fact of the matter is, int'l play has really stepped up, and given the format (1 game elimination) of the tournament, it's not a surprise to see a US team take anything less than the gold. The old thinking that team USA should dominate every game and win everything is pretty outdated, frankly I'm not too heartbroken, overall skill level has increased around the world for the benefit of the game of basketball. With the recent games some weaknesses of team USA have been exposed, from what I've seen teams with good half court offenses that handle the ball well can be a problem. Against weaker opponents team USA just thrived off of steals and transition baskets, not so much against good teams. I'd wish they'd keep a core group of guys together and give the team more time to play together so they can develop team chemistry, I think this team will definitley take the gold in 08.
I still find it funny that Americans (or Team USA fans) thought that this whole summer of picking players and training camps was enough to rebuild the basketball program. There's no quick fixes and it'll take a hell of a lot longer than that to get this team back on track. Remember, the focus has always been the 2008 Olympics. While Team USA obviously would have liked to win the WBC, it was by no means a guarantee as the media tended to portray it. There's a lot of good you can take from this tournament, if you don't come in with the mindset that everything needs to be rebuilt again. The young core played great, both individually and as a team. What's more, this team showed that their biggest weakness is simply that they needed more time to play with each other (and perhaps coaching). Both are signs that, come 2008, this team will be much stronger.
I think its sad how they lost, for the most part Lebron was a no show, Brand was on the bench... They no better in results to the 2004 team, they COULD win the Bronz, its not sure they will win, they have to play argentina..Hopefully KOBE will put them over the edge in 2008..
"Somwhere in the world Kobe Bryant is smiling" I love that quote Anyways, I think the problem this time around lied in the coaching. I didn't watch the game, but reading the recaps and the opinions of other people it seems like the main errors were made by Coach K. Playing the bigs for a total of 30 mins, for starters, is downright strange. Secondly, he went small ball in the closing portions of the game while the Greek coach subbed in a huge player to eat up the block. Subsquently, Coach K did not follow that substitution with a big guy of his own and Greece captalized on his error by pounding the ball inside. I don't blame anyone for the loss but honestly, USA has no reason for arrogance now IMO. I liked how this version of the team kept to themselves more and didn't blow up thier issues/games, but this loss will make's USA's image look weaker on the international front. I really adoubt any of the top international teams fear them now, perhaps much less then before atleast. However, 2008 might be a completely different story with Kobe and Amare thrown in the mix (is Amare coming in?).
i watched the game on nba tv and to tell ya the truth it look like a high school game between varsity and freshman. Yeah the USA is young , Yeah Greece has alot of time playing with eachother, but USA choked plain and simple. Missed freethrows, too many 3's attempted, not being able to guard the pick and roll, no team offense what so ever... what happened to Brad miller? they should have put him in the post and then try to get some kind of ball movement just like he used to back in Sacramento. Ive seen the International teams play and I honestly underestimated them and it looks like the Usa did too. Wheres the REAL DREAM TEAM WHEN U NEED UM HUH (1992) barcelona
I would have loved to see Team USA actually use the big guys. We should have a size advantage on almost every team in the tournament, but here is what our bigs had... Elton Brand 16.13 mpg, 5.75 spg(shots per game) Dwight Howard 14 mpg, 4.125 spg Chris Bosh 13.6 mpg, 3.42 spg Jamison 8.85 mpg, 4.3 spg That comes out to a total of 17.595 shots a game. In comparison we shot 25.5 3 pointers a game. Absolutely horrible balance, IMO. EDIT: Brad Miller played in 4 games took 16 shots and played 50 mins. So that is 4 more shots to get the total to 21.595 shots per game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting yudalicious:</div><div class="quote_post">So lebron, wade, carmelo are "nowhere near the best" in the NBA? The fact of the matter is, int'l play has really stepped up, and given the format (1 game elimination) of the tournament, it's not a surprise to see a US team take anything less than the gold. The old thinking that team USA should dominate every game and win everything is pretty outdated, frankly I'm not too heartbroken, overall skill level has increased around the world for the benefit of the game of basketball. With the recent games some weaknesses of team USA have been exposed, from what I've seen teams with good half court offenses that handle the ball well can be a problem. Against weaker opponents team USA just thrived off of steals and transition baskets, not so much against good teams. I'd wish they'd keep a core group of guys together and give the team more time to play together so they can develop team chemistry, I think this team will definitley take the gold in 08.</div> I totally agree with everything you said. This is the best we have, along with some of the best role players!! The rest of the world has caught up with us. Also that Greece team have been playing together for years. This USA team has been playing together for a few weeks maybe a month. But If they keep this group together along with Kobe. We Will Take The Gold In 2008!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ojedachess:</div><div class="quote_post">did anyone see the black dude for the Greek team ... what a bull man... oh yeah and he can play ball</div> Yeah, he was good!! I bet alot of nba teams didnt go after him b/c of his weight but he can ball. Plus they said he's playing overseas for 17 million dollars (tax free) and I think that was for 3 yrs. Now you know the nba teams probably offered him chump-change, so I guess he went for more money; & more playing time.
yea 17 for 3 years tax free, the clippers drafted him in the 2nd round but hed probaably get less than a million a year
im disappointed, i expected the gold, at least the silver.hopefully in 2008 these guys will all be in their prime, kobe and amare will bring their 'A' game, and maybe even Redick, Morrison, and some new guys can step it up.
I haven't watched the game, so I don't know what to say...but I think with Kobe coming back, this team will be a lot stronger, he can become a great leader, something this team really needs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">It does'nt matter USA's gonna win this year anyways. Edit- I just saw the scores, USA's out?</div> They have a game tomorrow for the bronze. Gold will go to Greece or Spain.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">They have a game tomorrow for the bronze. Gold will go to Greece or Spain.</div> Now, that is sad. Americans are what the world fears in sports such as basketball. And... USA chokes. You know what I think, to be honest.. These so called "star" players can't get the USA team anywhere. I just believe we need players like Nash & Kidd on the team. Playmakers. We need fundamental players, like Duncan to win against national teams. They have a far better team game than USA. EDIT: Grrr, im pakman, autologon :mad
Now, that is sad. Americans are what the world fears in sports such as basketball. And... USA chokes. You know what I think, to be honest.. These so called "star" players can't get the USA team anywhere. I just believe we need players like Nash & Kidd on the team. Playmakers. We need fundamental players, like Duncan to win against national teams. They have a far better team game than USA.
The problem is not having the team prepare more or play more together. The problem is understanding the international basketball game. The US team would have come better prepared for this tournament from only watching previous international games on TV and studying the international rulebook. There is not one single trace of evidence that the US coaches during this tournament knew what they were doing at the international level. Coach K have not learned one useful thing from the last debacle as I see it. All I can think of is that they had some decent shooters in the lineup this time which they didn't have in the Olympics. But showing up at the olympics without shooters was so stupid it just couldn't happen twice. All I see is American players playing NBA type of plays for entire games with no tactic changes whatsoever. But this is not the NBA... Against weaker opponents earlier in the tournament they used their athleticism. After 5 minutes of play switch all 5 players, step up the defence and force turnovers from the opponent. That's what I do with my team of 12 year old kids too to make a run against a weaker opponent. Other than that they played equally poor team play at both ends in those games as well as the game today. The difference today is they met the best team in Europe. How can 12 greek players all from smaller leagues than the NBA make a 20-4 run in the second period and handle these american NBA players with such ease without nothing at all happening from the american coaching staff? All I could see was that he made the subs but what else? Attacking the basket after one pass (at best!) against the best team defence on the planet? Against zone defence!? That was really stupid two years ago. It is still very stupid. What about helping each other in defence? Greece won the Euro Champs tournament last year mainly from excellent defence. But they sure play some great team offence too as we saw today. Judging from the fact that they meet Spain in the final it must be fair to say that the best basketball of 2006 is played in Europe. The last 15 years the international teams have gone from getting autographs from the Dreamteam in Barcelona to serious contenders to champions. The coaches overseas have studied american basketball, learned why the american players was so much better, practiced and learned those aspects of the game and mixed that with their own ideas and in the process made basketball a better game than it was before. There is not much need for players that jump out of the gym in international play where there are no illegal defence rules. You can do your player, and maybe the help that shows up but after that you’ll make a charging foul landing on the third help player and give your team another turnover. US teams have no ball movement at all. Pass the wing, look for something, nothing there, better go one-on-one. So predictable. We watch NBA too and no illegal defence rules remember? No Cobe Bryant or any other starters from the NBA will ever make this any different. On the contrary Cobe will make this worse since he would want the ball for himself all the time. And where is the work effort? The team spirit? The mental game that in the past made US superior on the court now plays against them. Looking cool on court is maybe fine when you are ahead but useless when you are 10 behind. Did anyone notice the greeks cheer after each basket early in the game while the US team all looks like Buster Keaton on a rainy day when they score? Enough with the "we will be ready in 2008" talk. If players dont show work effort and emotion in a world semi final you picked the wrong team. USAs greatest opponent are not Greece or Argentine or Spain. It's the arrogance that makes the downfall. Arrogance over the fact that international games are played with another rulebook. Arrogance over the fact that the rest of the world plays better basketball. How many american inside players can also be used as three point shooters for instance? Arrogance over the fact that there is a work effort that needs to be put in. I am so tired of watching american players looking like question marks when the ref calls something. "What... only two steps not three (or four)?" "What... no timeout by just yelling it to the referee (coach K today)?" "What... unsportsmanlike foul when grabbing a players wrist (Hinrich today)?" I could go on... the point is this didn't matter when US teams won by 30-40 points but these days when the games are really tight you cant waste turnovers on stuff like this. Every possession counts these days. Do your home work or continue loosing these games. This brings me to this conclusion. The only thing I see for the moment that could make USA olympic champs in two years is to bring in an experienced international coach to pick the team and lay out the rules. Make a team of 3-4 go-to guys but the rest must be blue-collar workers. Looking at the Greece team they should probably be really great team players on both ends of the courts, and three point shooters. Add the american players athleticism to the Greek team and that will once more be a Dreamteam type of team that wins every international game by 20-30 points. Athleticism and one-on-one plays alone will only take you so far these days. ... the pendulum has swung. When will US basketball understand it?
I've watched every game in this tournament and I will say that the reason why the USA has failed to win a championship at the world level since 2000 is b/c this team has not committed itself to play good fundamental defense. US scored 95 points today. Again that is the equivalent to scoring 114 in a 48 minute game. Our problem has never been scoring -- our problem has been that the European guards in these tournaments have consistently been able to get past our guards with penetration. None of the coaches that we have had since Chuck Daly make adjustments that will enable our team to get recharged when they face a significant foe/deficit. Everyone wants us to press and force turnovers and get easy fast breaks. When you play against a team w/ solid guard play it is very difficult to play a full court trapping defense for 40 minutes. Theodoros Papaloukas and Vassilis Spanoulis are quality guards that can easily compete at the NBA level. They will make the right read when they are trapped and in the case yesterday the bigs/wings were able to make shots against a rotating USA defense. My question is why did we take out our best shot blocking presence in Dwight Howard? Is it b/c he is not an opposing offensive weapon? It takes more than putting out the best offensive players to win games. Where's the balance? Carmelo was playing center at times against a player that weighed 50 pounds more than him (Sofoklis Schortsianitis). Don't you think that we would have benefitted from putting a more balanced team out there as opposed to just playing our five best scorers? We are so arrogant that we didn't even consider playing zone when Greece continually picked us apart w/ their pick and roll offense. They didn't have to call any plays b/c they knew that we had no versatility defensively other than playing man to man. We were a good rebounding team. We were a long team. We weren't a great perimeter defensive team. Why not force Greece to shoot highly contested jump shots as opposed to lay ups from perfectly executed pick and roll. Has the world caught up from a talent perspective? I don't think so. I think that international ball focuses on team basketball as opposed to individual statistics. LeBron was labeled the disciple of Christ before he even led his team to the playoffs. Chris Bosh signed a 80 million dollar contract when his team won 27 games last season. Financial security in the US is predicated on stats where in Europe true recognition comes with winning. Do you think that Coach K started scouting international opponents when he found out that he was named the coach of this team? If he would have he would have known not to play the pick and roll the same way the entire game against Greece. It just makes me steaming mad that we are so arrogant that we assume that b/c we are the most talented team in the field that it will automatically translate to winning a championship. I played professionally in Europe and I can tell you that the international game is a hell of lot more competitive and physical than the American game. If we are going to be successful we have to have a full time national coach (Chuck Daly) and have to have versatile players that are committed to defense. We don't need a Shane Battier or Bruce Bowen as a defensive specialist but we do need players like Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, Jamaal Tinsley, etc. who are good enough defensively to not be exploited but also talented enough on offense that international competition has to respect their talent. I don't think we will win the Olympic gold medal in '08 unless we put a team out there that is committed to guarding on the perimeter and or playing an effective zone. Unless we have a staff that has no other outside interest other than devising a scheme to exploit the weaknesses of their competition than we will be in the same boat at this time two years from now. Or we may lose in the tournament of Americas in 2007. Or we may lose tomorrow against Argentina. The offensive talent is there. It is hard to get high percentage looks against a two three zone. That is why we need to incorporate those philosophies into our own game plan -- instead of being so closed minded into thinking we don't have to adjust to our competition.
